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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: DB]
#869764
12/16/15 09:46 AM
12/16/15 09:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
baldo
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
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Yeah Alfa great point
I love history , intelligence and power so naturally this case interested me as its so complex, it was just a brilliant operation to put it bluntly and sadly
If you want a great book on the CIA and specifically Bill Harvey and Jesus James Angelton read " the wilderness of mirrors " it's the best book out there for top CIA operatives , written by the son of a big CIA agent and tells a lot about some our our intelligence operations and both of these guys were some serious serious men .
The crime is solvable , the AARB document dump has many of the clues and also is a great lesson in real history . Whoever impersonated LHO in Mexico City were the planners for sure , the CIA and David Atlee Phillips in particular lied to the HSCA that these tapes were routinely destroyed 3 weeks after being taped but after the AARB declassified WC documents , we know WC staff listened to the tape 9 months later . The WC totally sidestepped Mexico City so that's a clue right there that some hanky panky was going on
JFK the Unspeakable is another great book, highly recommend
The case interested me after listening to the Cuban Missle Crisis tapes and reading some books . It's pretty clear if JFK wasn't president , NYC DC and Miami would of seen up to 40 nuclear battlefield nukes unleashed on them . It's a miracle it didn't happen. In those tapes RFK tells the Russian ambassador straight up if Khrushchev doesn't start backtracking Their would be a military coup within a day of JFK . That was the beginning of the end , he knew he was dead , in fact he said so that morning , got to give the man credit for having some balls and doing the right thing even though he marked himself for death . He was too be killed in Chicago and Miami weeks before so he knew .
I agree about the disinformation part but the CIA just admitted they had a benign coverup over their relationship with LHO which is truly ground breaking , if they came clean back then the investigation would have went in a lot of different places . I don't think they leak that info unless there is more to the story , that's how they work , they admit nothing , that's their policy unless they are forced to and then they admit a little and try and control the direction which is what we have. LHO was crawling with intelligence agents or assets all over him every which way from Japan to Russia to New Orleans to Mexico City and then to Dallas .
Anyway JFK presidency was one the most interesting parts of US history covering Vietnam , Laos , Cuba, Nuclear War , Russia , just an insane time and I'm the type that likes to know the real story , hence my interest Can you expand on the bold section regarding the missile crisis? Not sure I follow. So JFK avoided nuclear war so he was killed? I think I'm reading it wrong lol. I totally agree with you, this period was absolutely fascinating. Keep up the great work, DB.
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#869807
12/16/15 06:06 PM
12/16/15 06:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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My bad, did I saw that about the motorcade?
Didn't mean too, I was more about the Chicago and Miami motorcades were canceled due to assassination plots, and LHO was strategically placed at the TSBD.
Chicago was canceled as an individual named "Lee" phoned in the assassination tip, 2 Cuban shooters were arrested but mysteriously released and all documents were destroyed, the SS agent was arrested when trying to report this to the WC- Arthur Bolden. Seems another x-marine Thomas Vallee who worked at the same Japan U2 base as Oswald was the frame guy for Chicago.
Miami was canceled as an FBI agent had on tape a man stating JFK was being hunted, he would be killed by high powered rifles and he knew he was being hunted. Tapes are on line
Dallas there was an assassination bulletin too so he was clearly being hunted, he knew it.
I don't think there is anyone 1 thing that caused the JFK hit, it was a bunch of things that lead to it but the Cuban missile crisis was likely that broke the back. You have RFK on tape saying a military coup of JFK was imminent to the Russian DC ambassador, plus JFK agreed never to invade Cuba which was deplorable to the hard core anti communists in intelligence, that and the anti nuclear agreement he signed with Russia in 1963 was probably the icing on the cake.
Intelligence/Military wanted to defeat communism and Russia and Cuba militarily and if that involved nukes so be it . JFK was wanted to solve our issues diplomatically if possible and was desperate to avoid a nuclear confrontation.
If you listen to his speeches, his biggest concern was a nuclear war due to "miscalculation" and in Oct 1962 we were right there, must have been scary times.
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#869821
12/16/15 07:39 PM
12/16/15 07:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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I don't think there is anyone 1 thing that caused the JFK hit, it was a bunch of things that lead to it but the Cuban missile crisis was likely that broke the back. You have RFK on tape saying a military coup of JFK was imminent to the Russian DC ambassador, plus JFK agreed never to invade Cuba which was deplorable to the hard core anti communists in intelligence, that and the anti nuclear agreement he signed with Russia in 1963 was probably the icing on the cake.
Intelligence/Military wanted to defeat communism and Russia and Cuba militarily and if that involved nukes so be it . JFK was wanted to solve our issues diplomatically if possible and was desperate to avoid a nuclear confrontation.
If you listen to his speeches, his biggest concern was a nuclear war due to "miscalculation" and in Oct 1962 we were right there, must have been scary times.
Jfk ended the cuban crisis by pledging not to invade cuba and removing missiles in Turkey. The pledge not to invade cuba didn't sit well with a lot of people. Also, missile sites in cuba were not inspected by UN to make sure they were really gone. We took it largely on faith they were removed. It was a victory for peace, but not everyone saw it that way. I think there were some who viewed the crisis as an "i told you so" moment. They wanted Eisenhower or Jfk to invade cuba much earlier. I was unaware of RFK's statements. It sounds like he was trying to make a bluff to scare the soviets to make a peace deal and not something he believed would actually happen.
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#869829
12/16/15 08:55 PM
12/16/15 08:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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You could be right about the UN but U2 spy planes confirmed they were either gone or in the process.
What we didn't know during the Cuban missle crisis is that Russia already had 40 battlefield nukes aimed at cities on the east coast ( we found out afterwards ) and once we invaded Cuba ( we were actually about 24 hours away ) all those nukes would have been launched ( that was the order ) so it would have been a nuclear war . That's how close we came , literally hours away from the unspeakable .
You could be right about RFK , I really don't know for sure but JFK really believed the seven days in May book ( military coup ) and actually pushed for the movie to have scenes on the White House.
I personally think RFK was telling the truth as it was such a serious situation , where his feared miscalculation could lead to a nuclear war was nearing , but I have no proof of that .
On October 3 1963 the below article was written by one of JFK friends, Arthur Krock of the NY times and speculation was he or RFK were the source for the article and I would venture to say the "very high official " came from the White House with JFKs approval . Anyway the article is very chilling , especially because in approx 6 weeks in actually happened . I believe JFK knew he was a dead man but that's just my opinion i formed after a lot of reading . A great documentary about this time is called JFK A President Betrayed narrated by Morgan Freeman in 2013 . The title is deceiving as it has nothing directly to do with the assassination but rather how his policies received significant pushback or outright disobeying by certain govt dept , especially State Dept , CIA and military . The beef started with the Bay of Pigs and it just escalated from there to the point where I think the plotters thought they doing what was right for America at the time .
October 3, 1963 - Arthur Krock - NY Times
“The C.I.A.’s growth was ‘likened to a malignancy’ which the ‘very high official was not sure even the White House could control … any longer.’ ‘If the United States ever experiences [a coup to overthrow the government] it will come from the C.I.A. and not the Pentagon.’ The agency ‘represents a tremendous power and total unaccountability to anyone.'”
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#869835
12/16/15 09:36 PM
12/16/15 09:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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The below speaks about Krock long term friendship with the Kennedy family and his status as their press agent for the public ( see below article ) I can't speak with certainty about RFK's statement that a military coup was imminent during the Cuban Missle Crisis but I can say with near certainty that the "very high official " in the below Oct 3 1963 article was a Kennedy saying to the public that if he is killed or overthrown , it was the CIA who orchestrated the coup. It's from this article that I feel strongly that RFK was telling the truth during the missle crisis - just 11 months prior . Also it wasn't just JFK that prevented the Missle crisis as Nikita Krushkev was as important to preventing nuclear war as JFK . It was their secret back channel letters to each other where they formed a certain bond with each seeing some level of humanity in the other and not just a sworn enemy . If both remained in power I think the odds were good the Cold War might have ended in the mid / late 60s with the nuclear treaty signed by both countries shortly right after the missle crisis and JFKs landmark American University speech on Aug 1963 which was really ground breaking thinking for its time . Also remember Krushkuv was overthrown in a 1964 military coup by his hardliners as well . Although he was spared death he was written out of Russian history books and denied a state funeral . http://www.cjr.org/critical_eye/krock_and_kennedy.php"As Nasaw explains, “For the next quarter century, while working as Washington bureau chief and as columnist, Arthur Krock would serve as Kennedy’s unofficial, clandestine press agent, speechwriter, political adviser, informant, and all-purpose consultant.” Whenever Kennedy had something he needed help saying, Krock helped him say it, often putting the news columns of the Times at his disposal as well."
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: DB]
#869880
12/17/15 03:50 PM
12/17/15 03:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 294 Merica
NickyWhip
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 294
Merica
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Thanks for this thread guys. Anyone willing to use google can piece this together. Very respectful of DB not to name drop though. I have a question about Oswald: If I am following, the general presumption is that he was a CIA operative. And his "russian defection" created a backstory to tie-in communists to the plan. If so, what information is available about him with regard to his understanding of his "russian defection"? If he was told by his handlers that he would be spying on the russians under the ruse that he was defecting to them, that sounds like pretty clear marching orders any CIA agent would expect to receive at the time in history, given the political climate. But was he complicit with the select few upper echelon of the CIA on JFK? how did he get mixed up in Dallas? What did he expect was to become of himself after this went down? Identity change and a facelift for the greater good of then CIA and the country? OR does evidence suggest that he thought he was supposed to get away clean? but there is another powerful person today who has some problematic connections. This individual was one of the few people who did not know where he was during the JFK assassination, however records show he was in Dallas at the Sheraton hotel on the night of Nov 21, 1963, furthermore there are JFK FBI documents detailing this individual trying to establish an alibi right after the assassination by phoning in his whereabouts, future movements and a possible suspect. This individual received a debriefing from the FBI and Hoover about anti castro Cubans living in Miami and their reactions to the JFK assassination (this briefing was the day after the assassination). This individual denies he was the person that received this briefing (likely blowing his cover). The only other CIA employee with that name was a low level employee , never received an inter agency briefings, was never contacted by the CIA despite the CIA claiming he was the individual, and in 1988 the CIA stated they could not locate this individual however a Nation reporter found him quickly, CIA could not locate this former employee that was still working for the US gov't. This information is circumstantial so its not right to release his name but its shocking and revealing none the less. Also this individual was a life long friend of George DeMohrenschildt. the first CIA handler of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Boss of tha toilet!
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: NickyWhip]
#870027
12/19/15 03:04 AM
12/19/15 03:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
Alfa Romeo
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,442
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But was he complicit with the select few upper echelon of the CIA on JFK? how did he get mixed up in Dallas?
What did he expect was to become of himself after this went down? Identity change and a facelift for the greater good of then CIA and the country?
OR does evidence suggest that he thought he was supposed to get away clean? If Lee was working with the Agency as an operative of some kind, and was promised protection after doing work, why would he doubt their ability to protect him? They are international in scope and have the ability to change a person's total identity, issue phony passports for travel to any-where, and likely even grant plastic surgery services. What they can do can make a person in WITSEC look as famous as a Lottery winner on TV. NickyWhip, what it looks like, at least to me, is that Lee was sent to Dallas under the pretense to kill JFK as a lone shooter. It's pretty much known now that the kill shot did not come from Lee's gun, and Lee knew this, instantly. That's why he told the media after he was arrested that he was the patsy. He knew that the moment he saw JFK hit with the headshot. If the plot as revealed to Lee was for multiple shooters to hit JFK, then Lee would have no reason to suspect or say that he was a patsy once he saw that it wasn't his shot that killed JFK. Lee did not know the plot was for multiple shooters, but it was. He thought he was the only shooter in Dallas.
"For us, rubbin'out a Mustache was just like makin' way for a new building, like we was in the construction business."
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: NickyWhip]
#870150
12/20/15 02:31 PM
12/20/15 02:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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Nicky you are entirely correct, all my info is from books, I wouldn't google the info but suggest books brought up in this thread like JFK The Unspeakable, Oswald and CIA, State Secret- The Framing of Oswald . Just make sure the book includes analysis from the AARB documents as those are critical to get the most accurate portrayal of events The information you ask about the Russian defection is too much and detailed to type but State Secret The Framing of Lee Oswald Chapter 1 The Double Dangle will provide you with the answer you are looking for- you can read the entire book for free online/below link. Its only 7 chapters but one of the best assassination books out there that is not widely read, told entirely thru AARB documents and a detailed account of Oswald and CIA into Russia, NO, Dallas and most importantly alleged activities in Mexico City. I highly recommend reading this book as it pieces together areas that no one has done before. https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret.htmlThe book also shows comments and info made by organized crime figure John Martino, who was very close with Bill Harvey and admitted his role in the assassination. We don't know much about what LHO himself knew as he was killed and the notes from his Dallas arrest were (I think) destroyed but the below summarizes info Martino told to a reporter or family/friends close to him, this was reported to the HSCA and verified by his wife and a Miami reporter Cummings. The below account is about as close as any insider has provided about the actual assignation planning/plot- how it was supposed to work. I doubt LHO actively involved with all the rogue CIA agents in the plot, the highest officer we have witnesses for is LHO meeting with CIA Propaganda chief David Atlee Phillips in Dallas weeks before the assassination. Gontae Fonzi was able to backtrack all the "Castro did it" sources to David Atlee Phillips and Gontae Fonzi really broke the lid on several important aspects including Mexico City and propaganda efforts orchestrated by Phillips. LHO was clearly set up but we don't know to what extent he knew this outside of his public statements after his arrest that he was just a "Patsy". You can find more John Martino info in the articles referenced below. Several pages that refer to Martino have been withdrawn from the Kennedy assassination collection at the National Archives, at the insistence of the CIA and the FBI. "He died in 1975. But before he passed away he spoke about what he had heard of the plot to kill Kennedy to a couple of friends and to his wife. One of the friends, Fred Claasen, went to the House Select Committee on Assassinations. According to Hancock, the HSCA did only a perfunctory investigation of the claims. Later on, in Vanity Fair, (December of 1994) Anthony Summers fleshed out the story more fully. Hancock, on page 16, puts the Martino findings in synoptic form: 1. Cuban exiles manipulated Oswald in advance of the plot and two of them were snipers in Dealey Plaza. 2. Oswald was a U. S. government undercover operative who was approached by anti-Castro exiles representing themselves as pro-Castro. 3. Oswald was supposed to meet an exile contact at the Texas Theater. Oswald thought he would help him escape the country, but the actual plan was to shoot him. Tippit's killing aborted this. Therefore the planners had to have Ruby murder Oswald. 4. The motorcade route was known in advance, and the attack was planned thoroughly in advance." “The anti-Castro people put Oswald together. Oswald didn’t know who he was working for — he was just ignorant of who was really putting him together. Oswald was to meet his contact at the Texas Theater [the movie house where Oswald was arrested]. They were to meet Oswald in the theater and get him out of the country, and then eliminate him. Oswald made a mistake . . . there was no way we could get to him. They had Ruby kill him.”" "Shortly before his death in 1975 Martino confessed to a Miami Newsday reporter, John Cummings, that he had been guilty of spreading false stories implicating Lee Harvey Oswald in the assassination. He claimed that two of the gunmen were Cuban exiles. It is believed the two men were Herminio Diaz Garcia and Virgilio Gonzalez. Cummings added: "He told me he'd been part of the assassination of Kennedy. He wasn't in Dallas pulling a trigger, but he was involved. He implied that his role was delivering money, facilitating things.... He asked me not to write it while he was alive." Fred Claasen also told the House Select Committee on Assassinations what he knew about Martino's involvement in the case. Florence Martino at first refused to corroborate the story. However, in 1994 she told Anthony Summers that her husband said to her on the morning of 22nd November, 1963: "Flo, they're going to kill him (Kennedy). They're going to kill him when he gets to Texas."
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#870223
12/21/15 01:02 PM
12/21/15 01:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 294 Merica
NickyWhip
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 294
Merica
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Thanks guys. I did some looking over the weekend and managed to get to chapter 3 of state secret on the mary ferrell site. it's not the easiest to follow with all of the players and acronyms, but I am getting through it.
thanks again for the information. I will have more questions when i'm done reading, for sure..
Boss of tha toilet!
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#870483
12/24/15 12:22 AM
12/24/15 12:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69 Buffalo,New York
frankg2469
A.K.A. Benny Squint
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A.K.A. Benny Squint
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 69
Buffalo,New York
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The only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is the following : To any and all acolytes of Gerald " The Plagiarist " Posner. While Jack Ruby's presence at Dallas PD HQ on numerous occasions between Oswald's arrest and eventual demise may be explained away as the actions of a distraught, attention seeking hothead working up the nerve and looking for an oppurtunity to do his deed, his knowledge of Oswald's affiliation with the Fair Play For Cuba committee is not so easily explained. FPFC was a very obscure group. Oswald was the sole member of the New Orleans "chapter". The Dallas PD spokesman didn't even know the proper name until Ruby corrected him at the Friday night news conference, so that information couldn't have come from any of Ruby's cop "buddies". Of course all of Ruby's stalking of Oswald also flies in the face of the impulsive, last-second, would've never left Sheba in the car Sunday morning stroll down the ramp to "see if Oswald was still there", but I'm not going to get into that.
Last edited by frankg2469; 12/24/15 12:23 AM.
"A mook---what's a mook ?" Johnny Boy Civello
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: frankg2469]
#870520
12/24/15 02:57 PM
12/24/15 02:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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The only thing I'd like to add to this discussion is the following : To any and all acolytes of Gerald " The Plagiarist " Posner. While Jack Ruby's presence at Dallas PD HQ on numerous occasions between Oswald's arrest and eventual demise may be explained away as the actions of a distraught, attention seeking hothead working up the nerve and looking for an oppurtunity to do his deed, his knowledge of Oswald's affiliation with the Fair Play For Cuba committee is not so easily explained. FPFC was a very obscure group. Oswald was the sole member of the New Orleans "chapter". The Dallas PD spokesman didn't even know the proper name until Ruby corrected him at the Friday night news conference, so that information couldn't have come from any of Ruby's cop "buddies". Of course all of Ruby's stalking of Oswald also flies in the face of the impulsive, last-second, would've never left Sheba in the car Sunday morning stroll down the ramp to "see if Oswald was still there", but I'm not going to get into that. Ruby said he heard about FPCC on the radio. This is a quote from Ruby's Warren Commission testimony: "And they questioned Henry Wade, "what organization did he belong to," or something. And if I recall, I think Henry Wade answered, "Free Cuba." And I corrected Henry Wade, because listening to the radio or KLIF, it stood out in my mind that it was "Fair Play Cuba." There was a difference. So he said, "Oh yes, Fair Play Cuba," and he corrected that."Ruby was friends or personally acquainted with employees of the KLIF radio station. A couple of KLIF radio station employees were called to testify at WC.
Last edited by ht2; 12/24/15 07:17 PM.
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#870530
12/24/15 04:42 PM
12/24/15 04:42 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885 Hudson County NJ
DB
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 885
Hudson County NJ
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I wouldn't believe much of what Ruby said to the Warren Commission He also claimed he was not at the TSBD during the shooting or shortly ( he was either at Dallas Morning News , his club or eating ) after the shooting but below is a picture very likely of Ruby right outside the front of the TSBD several minutes after the assassination, and right where both the assassination just took place and right where LHO walked out of the TSBD. Got to ask yourself why would he lie ? And why was he there ? Julia Ann Mercer also reported to Dallas Police the next morning after the assassination that she positively identified Jack Ruby by picture as being in a pick up truck at 11am delivering a package that in her opinion looked like a gun case being delivered to the top of the grassy knoll on the morning of the assassination ( he was I'd before he became famous for killing LHO). The newspaper journalist Seth Kantor placed him in Parkland shortly after the assassination too . Ruby testified he was not at he hospital . The WC simply disregarded his statements but he HSCA believed him . I think it was crucial for Ruby to correct Wade as belonging to a committee such as Free Cuba would put him on the anti Castro side , jeopardizing LHO crafted Pro Castro side . It was that late afternoon and night when the LHO cover story was being pushed to the press and it was likely important they got this right early in the process . HSCA investigator Gaeton Funzi was able to trace all these media sources pushing the LHO Pro Catro and Pro Russian story back to CIA Propagnada expert and Mexico City Chief David Atlee Phillips , who on his death bed confessed to his brother he was in Dallas that day and who Alpha 66 head ( anti Castro Cuba raid group ) Antonio Vecciana saw meeting with LHO in Dallas before LHO Mexico City adventure. link is likely picture of Ruby outside TSBD several minutes after the shooting . Picture is the 11th down on the left hand side http://www.theinnocenceofoswald.com/photo-gallery
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: DB]
#870533
12/24/15 05:39 PM
12/24/15 05:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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I wouldn't believe much of what Ruby said to the Warren Commission
He also claimed he was not at the TSBD during the shooting or shortly ( he was either at Dallas Morning News , his club or eating ) after the shooting but below is a picture very likely of Ruby right outside the front of the TSBD several minutes after the assassination, and right where both the assassination just took place and right where LHO walked out of the TSBD. Got to ask yourself why would he lie ? And why was he there ?
DB, at least one employee who worked in the advertising dept for The Dallas Morning newspaper placed Ruby there at the time of the shooting. It wouldn't surprise me if Ruby rushed to the hospital to see what was going on. Only if one other person could back up the reporter's claim though. LHO's pro castro, marxist stance (real or fake) was pretty well established and didn't need any comment from Ruby for reporters to find out.
Last edited by ht2; 12/24/15 10:14 PM.
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Re: Jack Ruby, the Mob & the JFK Assassination
[Re: BloodlettersandBadmen]
#870565
12/24/15 10:39 PM
12/24/15 10:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 46
VetteZR1
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 46
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Hey BL&BM...I relly enjoy your vids...I relly would love to see a video of some of the Genovese guys such as Benny Eggs, Danny Leo, Tino "the Greek" Fiumara, Bobby Manna, Quiet Dom, Ernie Muscarella, the 116th crew as a whole, Baldy Dom, "Patsy" Parello and SPECIALLY Barney...there are so many interesting guys in that family!! def keep this in mind...thanx
Last edited by VetteZR1; 12/24/15 10:44 PM.
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