Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
Originally Posted By: Tonytough
Completely different scenario

Yes Sonny black knew he was in trouble BUT he also knew it could go 2 ways- just like any wiseguy who gets "called in". No one in that family had experienced anything similar before- so it was all new to Sonny. He reported it to Big Paul, then got sent for within his family. Stevie beef Canone was bought along to put Sonny at ease. He trusted Stevie beef

Ok much as been made of Sonny taking off his ring & car keys and giving it to his favourite bartender BUT that doesn't mean he 100% knew he was going to die- again, plenty of guys do that routine when they get sent for and know they're in trouble

When Mike Francese got sent for & suggested to his old man they go together (accused of withholding millions) do u think Michael turned up wearing his diamond encrusted watch & million dollar pinkie ring? NO CHANCE! The only ones that turn up & then get jewellery taken from their corpse are those who were set up unknowingly (Gaspipe used to tell his hitters to bring him all the dead guy's money & jewellery)

So Sonny took a gamble & lost plus unlike Gotti (I know your suggesting Sonny accepted his fate) whereas Gotti didn't and "acted out of fear" as u like to say

But when I say different scenario- Unlike the Gambino's there wasn't 2 sides from Sonny's point of view. Well yes there was but what I mean is, he was on the one side with powers to be... Rusty, Fat Joey etc therefore it's not like he could strike out at them seeing they're his strength & power to begin with.

Gotti on otherhand was loyal to Neil & had the support to make a move against Paul- Sonny didn't have that pleasure

& I'm not sure why u are so strung up with this "Gotti done it for self preservation/ fear", isn't that what the mob is all about. Sonny black took part in the hit against Galante because Rusty was crying about losing his seat from jail.

Then Sonny took part in the 3 captains murder AGAIN to hold onto power & not let them take over. All for the GREEN is what it boils down to not to mention- they were all scared when they heard the 3 Capo's were loading up

So is Sonny a coward too in that sense?


Obv its a diff scenario.

But youre missing the point.
Sonny went in when called because as PB said, he was Cosa Nostra. He understood he was part of a bigger thing.

Gotti did what he did because he was all about John Gotti.

Thats the diff.

And one takes courage, the other is a selfish coward.

And DONT try and tell me Sonny didnt know he was going to get hit.
In those days you could get hit for TALKING to an FBI agent.
Sonny brought one into his crew, introduced him to bosses and sponsered him for his button. A Fed.
And you think he didnt know he was going to get hit?
Please.



I never said Sonny didn't know he was going to get hit, of COURSE that was a real possibility BUT according to the testimony of Lino Stevie Beef was NOT told about the hit. As soon as the basement door opened Lino and another guy stopped Stevie beef going down by shutting the door and throwing Sonny down

Sonny was under the impression he was going for a sit down and YES of course he knew he was possibly going to get hit (what a stupid thing to say) sorry I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but isn't that the OBVIOUS?

If I've messed up at the office & the board of directors send for me, I would be a real dummy to turn up thinking we're going to discuss Disneyland??? Of course I KNOW I'm in trouble but at the same time I'm secretly hoping we can work it out somehow- and that's exactly why Sonny turned up

Plenty of guys have shown up for the same reasons. When the 3 capo's went to meet the other faction they decided NOT to bring arms (u telling me they thought they were going to debate global politics) ?? They damn well knew there was a death wish right there YET still went unarmed out of some BS rule about not carrying arms to a meeting

And who turned up with enough fire power to launch a small war? Sonny black & Fat Joey that's who so enough of this "Sonny was more LCN than Gotti will ever be"

Now I'm not slating Sonny- he was man enough to go to the meet & face possible death but again plenty of guys have done just that! And ALL of these guys turned up secretly hoping things can get smoothed over.