Originally Posted By: SonnyBlackstein
Originally Posted By: Tonytough
I agree to some extent but certainly NO coward


Disagree.

Compare/contrast Sonny Black with Gotti.
Both captains who's crew fucked up demanding consequence.
One accepted responsibility and went in when called.
Knowing the probable outcome and shouldering the repercussions.

The other acted out of fear and self preservation.
Broke his oath to his boss.
Motivation was purely self centered.


One is courage the other is a coward.

Im sure you can figure out which is which.



Completely different scenario

Yes Sonny black knew he was in trouble BUT he also knew it could go 2 ways- just like any wiseguy who gets "called in". No one in that family had experienced anything similar before- so it was all new to Sonny. He reported it to Big Paul, then got sent for within his family. Stevie beef Canone was bought along to put Sonny at ease. He trusted Stevie beef

Ok much as been made of Sonny taking off his ring & car keys and giving it to his favourite bartender BUT that doesn't mean he 100% knew he was going to die- again, plenty of guys do that routine when they get sent for and know they're in trouble

When Mike Francese got sent for & suggested to his old man they go together (accused of withholding millions) do u think Michael turned up wearing his diamond encrusted watch & million dollar pinkie ring? NO CHANCE! The only ones that turn up & then get jewellery taken from their corpse are those who were set up unknowingly (Gaspipe used to tell his hitters to bring him all the dead guy's money & jewellery)

So Sonny took a gamble & lost plus unlike Gotti (I know your suggesting Sonny accepted his fate) whereas Gotti didn't and "acted out of fear" as u like to say

But when I say different scenario- Unlike the Gambino's there wasn't 2 sides from Sonny's point of view. Well yes there was but what I mean is, he was on the one side with powers to be... Rusty, Fat Joey etc therefore it's not like he could strike out at them seeing they're his strength & power to begin with.

Gotti on otherhand was loyal to Neil & had the support to make a move against Paul- Sonny didn't have that pleasure

& I'm not sure why u are so strung up with this "Gotti done it for self preservation/ fear", isn't that what the mob is all about. Sonny black took part in the hit against Galante because Rusty was crying about losing his seat from jail.

Then Sonny took part in the 3 captains murder AGAIN to hold onto power & not let them take over. All for the GREEN is what it boils down to not to mention- they were all scared when they heard the 3 Capo's were loading up

So is Sonny a coward too in that sense?




Last edited by Tonytough; 11/26/15 08:03 PM.