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Re: Gun Law
[Re: SoCalGangs]
#864219
10/22/15 07:08 PM
10/22/15 07:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935 Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
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Helen, glad you're posting about this, you make far better points than I can... Thanks. I truly appreciate that. Edited to add: I think there are a few common sense things we can do that would allow guns and still greatly reduce some of the issues. Require a license for every firearm, close the private sale loopholes, and make safe storage a law. People often use cars as an analogy, as in 'cars kill people but we don't ban them'. We do require insurance on cars though, and you have to prove you can drive to get a license, and you can't sell a car without a government involved title transfer. Those aren't bad ideas for firearms. While that sounds nice and reasonable, I fail to see how any of that stops a crazy person from entering a gun free zone such as a school and shooting up the place or gang members from using guns to shoot each other . Having lisences for cars never stopped drive by shootings. When you get a car lisence, the idea is that you prove you know basic safety and rules of the road. Most people aren't worried about people not knowing how to properly use guns safety. It is a concern and accidents do happen, but that isn't the main issue. The issue is malicious intent. When I bought my handgun, I had to take a short multiple choice test and perform a visual test showing how to safely handle the handgun. Then was given the handgun permit. But that's here in California. Then I had to wait about 10 days and have a background check. The thing is, I still don't see how any of that stops bad people from doing bad things. The one point that I think is valid is that guns can be moved to bad areas and cities from areas with less restriction on guns and less crime. Which is why I have a bit more respect for those that argue against all gun ownership everywhere. Because in order to hurt the firearm black market you'd have to ban all guns and destroy hundreds of millions of guns. And then MAYBE, that will have some sort of effect. I don't know. I would fight against that tooth and nail, but it makes more sense than these annoying ass laws California keeps passing that ultimately just makes things harder on legal gun owners that aren't criminals. Magazine capacity restrictions, ammo restrictions, conceal carry restrictions, storage restrictions, fees, and on and on. And for what? So criminals can continue doing what they do. We are not ever going to be able to stop all the bad people from doing bad things. I don't believe that I've said that any controls could put a stop to all the gun violence. That's never going to happen. As far as mass shootings by lunatics go, as horrifying as they are that's not the main issue. It just gets the most press due to the terrible nature of those crimes. As for cars and drive bys, you do still need the gun. Otherwise you'd have to run people down in the car, right? To be honest, gang members killing each other doesn't even bother me that much. It's only when they kill innocent victims that I'm troubled. We can't eradicate the criminal aspects of human nature, it will always be with us. But we can make it tougher for guns to get into those people's hands on the black market. Many states dont even require a permit. I see that as a problem. I'm aware that some people don't. But a large amount of the guns on the black market come from those states. Clamping down on those type of sales could make an impact. Also, straw purchases are a huge problem, along with legally licensed but corrupt at home and commercial gun dealers. These two sources are where the majority of illegal guns come from. Stolen guns are actually the smallest percentage of guns that make their way onto the black market, according to data from the ATF. I certainly don't believe I have all the answers, and certainly don't think we will ever be able to fully eradicate gun violence but if we can stop some people from being killed I think we owe it to them and to ourselves as a country and as individuals. Sorry for the super long post.
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: Gun Law
[Re: fergie]
#864220
10/22/15 07:08 PM
10/22/15 07:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935 Past caring, then hang a left
helenwheels
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 935
Past caring, then hang a left
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Cut the bravado, cut the macho bullshit and deal with the issue, you know another sandy hook is around the corner, yet you are willing to do fuck all about it just because its your "right".. Your the one who will never compromise and thats the pity I have for you for you and the people who will get killed as a result...crazy
Speaking of Sandy Hook, there are quite a few people in the US that think it was faked, or done by the government. Why? So they could come and take away all the guns. How can you even have rational discourse with people that think like that?
All God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.
I never met anyone who didn't have a very smart child. What happens to these children, you wonder, when they reach adulthood?
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Re: Gun Law
[Re: fergie]
#864221
10/22/15 07:09 PM
10/22/15 07:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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The NRA will be as popular as the KKK in a few years-its an observation, so don't go crazy! Don't count on it. A horrible analogy. Next time, why don't you just cut to the chase and compare the NRA to the Nazis? You know you want to.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Gun Law
[Re: fergie]
#864227
10/22/15 07:33 PM
10/22/15 07:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 868
fergie
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 868
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Helen, you cant, the word in the first line of my first post, bravado..followed up by the guy's post immediately after - "everybody in the world wants to stay here" sums it up. Naive, Bush type bullshit. I love the US and have close connections to the country, but bullshit like that disgusts me, coupled with the "right to bear arms" in the face of obvious stupidity. Why, because I see every week or month some poor family losing a person through utter stupidity or avoidable crime.
PB - this is one "right" that should be removed. Ive said repeatedly, its outdated, dangerous and misled...the NRA SHOULD only be an organisation without any real power, like the PGA, NFL etc but its got political power now - which it managed to get by clinging on to your constitution.
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Re: Gun Law
[Re: fergie]
#864232
10/22/15 07:52 PM
10/22/15 07:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
SoCalGangs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
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1) I agree, its the minority, but its a HUGE minority considering the numbers involved. 2) entirely debatably, neither of us can prove beyond a doubt. However I CAN prove innocent people are dying needlessly 3) most aren't, those that shoot themselves by accident i would put down to natural selection...stupid is as stupid does. However, YOU gave them the license. 4) helen hit the nail on the head earlier...if guns are easier to get hold of legally, they are easier to get hold of illegally, basically (apologies if Im summarising incorrectly Helen).
But again, Im cool if you want to keep your guns, grab your dick and feel secure..I'm telling you though, you'll find it more difficult year by year through stricter control, stiffer penalties and media pressure. The government wont just disregard your right, but theres ways to get round it over time. The NRA will be as popular as the KKK in a few years-its an observation, so don't go crazy!
You honestly think it's debatable wether or not crime is worse now than it was in the early 90s?? Do you realize how much crime went on back then? I'm not saying there's proof that more guns brought about the drop in crime. I believe there's multiple reasons for the crime drop. But what the data does prove without a doubt is that increases in guns and gun ownership DID NOT increase crime overall. So if you care about facts at all, you have to at least concede that more guns doesn't equal more violence. It just doesn't. There's no other way to spin it. THe NRA regarded as the KKK? No. Only in left wing circles is that the case. You complain about their political power as if that's a bad thing. So what? Those of us in favor of gun ownership are supposed to roll over and let the politicians run us over and pass whatever nonsense law they want? We're not supposed to fight back or be represented? That's ridiculous. You know STDs are an issue too in this country. According to the CDC website, over 13,000 people died of AIDS in 2012( even more than gun related homicides). Sounds dangerous. Maybe we need to register everyone with an STD. Maybe get a lisence before you're allowed to have sex? That's a lot of needless and preventable deaths per year..
Last edited by SoCalGangs; 10/22/15 07:56 PM.
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Re: Gun Law
[Re: fergie]
#864237
10/22/15 08:29 PM
10/22/15 08:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
SoCalGangs
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 601
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Fergie,
You did not address any of my arguments at all. You're calling me stubborn and unwilling to consider the other side but you added nothing except what amounts to insults and assertions.
I didn't say anything about forming a militia or anything of the sort. What are you talking about?
Last edited by SoCalGangs; 10/22/15 08:30 PM.
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