The Mastronardo's were unique though, and pretty much all the sources have said so. They were unique for Philly. And there's no mob books dwarfing what the Mastronardo's did. Not in NY, not today at least. Theres not much sources of NY families in 2015, or even during the time when the Mastronardos were active, taking bets of 10 grand. And we aren't talking about the global mob, we're talking about Philadelphia. They weren't cutting guys off, they were beating guys up and threatening them, and they still do it today for loans and bets as low as $500. Like I said, the Mastronardo's were never kicking up to the Philly family, or any other one. Laundering money through an associate of the Genovese still isn't kicking up, it means they were using that associate to clean their illegitimate profits.

Another thing that most sources on the Mastronardos had them being unique for, in regards to Philly, were it's off shore betting accounts and international clientele. So the Mastronardos were unique in many aspects.

first of all you're right, they dealt with whales way out of my league. Second of all I said LOl because if someone were to allow that with me I would free roll them. Maybe you don't understand what I meant. I would bet and collect until I had a bad week and stiff them. No one posts money with bookies in real life, maybe strangers over the internet who use pay pal. So I really don't understand what you are trying to say. Also, nobody's saying these guys didn't make more than south philly, I'm not knocking them or their business. But as I said, lol @ someone letting ME lay 10,dimes on a game with no leverage to collect besides cutting me off, there are other books where yiu can lay ten dimes. I would free roll them so fast it would make their fucking head spin.

Also guys this is 2015 even the goons use pay per head sites and wire rooms in Costa Rica. Who doesn't?

Its not just the sites though, and this wasn't in 2015, Joe Vito and his son was doing this from the 80's, all the way to about '06. Like I said, it wasn't just the sites, but their clientele was also from foreign countries and other states in the US.

No one is saying Joe Vito isn't the man buddy. I just personally found it comical

You need to do your research. I can give you several examples of sports books run by the NY families that had much larger handles than the Mastronardos ever did. And that includes bettors making large bets.

Notice I'm not talking about Philadelphia, though even there offshore wire rooms and Internet sites are also used. Those things are now the standard across the board wherever you look and weren't unique to the Mastronardos.

And I didn't say they were kicking up to anyone. But they weren't completely free of any ties to the mob either. Furthermore, if you look at sports betting cases in the Northeast, the Mastronardo operation - especially of their size and ability to stay largely independent of the mob - was very much the exception to the rule.

Good night last for Philly books........

Nah, I knew what you meant in the last post you made, but I was so caught up in typing my response I forgot to say I misunderstood the first time.

That's what I've been saying the whole time though. Hence, one of the reasons why they're unique. And if you feel like it, is it possible to point me out to some links of NY families and any others taking 10,000 bones in sports betting? I mean from like the early 80's through the late 90's, because that was pretty much the prime of the Mastronardo's business before they got indicted during the new millennium. Not examples from like the 30's & early 70's, the heyday of the mob before RICO. You are right though that using off shore rooms has become the thing nowadays, pretty much the norm. But back in those days I was referring to, few families had the international sports betting clientele that the Mastronardo's had.

First, I'm not sure why you think I would need to go back to the 1930's to the 1970's. If there's one racket that hasn't skipped a beat, and maybe even gotten bigger, for the mob it's sports betting.


Second, let's look at the Mastronardos.

Back in 1983 their operation was busted (see link below) and 10 people total were indicted. Typically, law enforcement will document how much money is being wagered with the operation they're looking at over the course of the investigation, whether it be the total amount wagered over that time and/or the average handle in a day. In the case below, the Mastronardos were averaging about $80,000 in bets a day. If you multiply this by 365 days a year, it comes to $29,200,000. So that's where the article got the "$30 million a year" total from. You'll also notice later in the article that another investigation said it was a "$50 million dollar a year operation" - later cited by the Pennsylvania Crime Commission in 1990. Whether it was $30 million, $50 million, or somewhere in between, almost always the numbers we see are the amount in bets the operation is handling. Not the net profit.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/04/20/Rizzo-kin-surrenders-on-gambling-charges/2298419662800/

I should also point out that sports betting is obviously seasonal, so the amount being wagered with an organization isn't going to be even all through the year. The fall, when football season is going strong, is going to be a lot busier than the summer. So that does call into the question the practice of simply taking the amount wagered over the course of an investigation and than multiplying it over a 12 month period to come up with a yearly figure. But for comparison purposes will go along with that for now.

More recently, the Mastronardo operation were busted in June 2006 and 18 people were charged. You'll notice the article below cites "$2.7 million ring." Why the difference compared to the 1983 bust? Well, in this case, they're simply talking about how much money was confiscated from the Mastronardos. Completely different than however much the operation was handling at the time. But it was claimed the operation was servicing approximately 1,000 bettors.
http://articles.philly.com/2006-06-01/ne...bling-operation

They were busted again in August 2012 and 16 people were charged. Once again, 1,000 bettors was cited and the press release below says the operation was "generating millions of dollars a year." The amount wagered in this case dealt with January 2005 to January 2011 - a 6 year period. Law enforcement sought to confiscate $6.3 million in profits the operation generated over that time frame. Averaged out, that would be about $1 million a year in profits. From what I've seen, the net profit in a bookmaking operation is anywhere from 5% to 10% of the total handled. If that was the case here, the operation may have been handling anywhere from $5 million to $10 million in bets a year.
https://www.fbi.gov/philadelphia/press-r...th-racketeering


Third, before even looking at New York, let's look at some Philadelphia mob operations.

Back in 2001, 21 people including soldier Joseph "Mousie" Massimino were charged with running a $30 million a year operation. This figure was likely arrived at the same way the $30 million a year figure was arrived at for the Mastronardos above - by taking the amount wagered over the course of the investigation and framing it within a 12 month period.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2001/feb/10/nj-charges-bruno-soldier-20-others-with-roles-in-g/

More recently in 2008 was the Borgata gambling bust that involved 24 people including Anthony Nicodemo, Stephen Cassansanto, and others. It was alleged the operation handled $60 million in bets over a 20 month period. In a 12 month time frame, this would be handling $36 million in bets.

So, as we can see, even in Philadelphia there have been mob gambling busts that have rivaled what the Mastronardos were doing - past or present. It may be a different clientele, to some extent, but it's not like the Philly mob is just a bunch of pikers only taking $50 bets at the local bar.
http://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases08/pr20080410b.html


Fourth, now let's look at New York.

When looking at gambling busts involving the NY families, there are obviously very many. We also see a wide range of figures, which suggests that these figures were arrived at in any number of ways like we saw above. But let's look at some examples.

In January 2001, 11 people tied to the Colombos were busted for running a $30 million a year gambling operation. Apples to apples, an operation that seems to rival the Mastronardos at their peak.
http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/da-probe-nets-11-illegal-bet-ring-article-1.909296

In March 2002, a big Bonanno operation was busted that involved Anthony Graziano, John Zancocchio, and others. It was alleged it took bets (including from high rollers) and handled $280 million in bets a year. Even if we, again, call into question the methods of how this figure was arrived at, for comparison purposes this operation was bigger than anything the Mastronardos had.
Bonanno bust

In January 2005, an operation tied to the Gambino and Genovese families was busted and 17 people were charged. It was said that $200 million in bets were placed with the operation over the course of the investigation. It was said this operation was open only to "high rollers" like doctors and lawyers. Some would bet up to $80,000 in a single day on horse races.
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2005/jan/14/lv-man-arrested-on-charges-of-illegal-gambling/
http://www.nysun.com/new-york/gambling-ring-members-charged/7686/

Many will recall the Lucchese gambling bust in Jersey in December 2007 that had 32 people charged. It was alleged that $2.2 billion in bets was placed over a 15 month period. Records showed that one high roller placed over $2 million in bets over a 2 month period.
http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/news/lo...-ring/28945147/

In October 2009, the Luccheses were busted again. Among the chrages was running a sports betting operation that handled $400 million in bets over the 2 year investigation.
http://abc7ny.com/archive/7043142/
http://therealdeal.com/blog/2009/10/01/f...amily-lucchese/

In October 2009, 30 people were charged in an operation tied to the Gambinos and Genovese. It was alleged that $567 million was handled in a 28 month period. In a 12 month framework, that would be $243 million.
http://www.osga.com/artman/publish/printer_7303.shtml

In May 2011, an operation tied to the Gambinos had 38 people charged. It was alleged it handled $178 million in bets over a 32 month period.
http://m.timesnewsweekly.com/node/29095#.VfnA8NK6et9


So finally, any way you want to slice it, there are mob bookmaking operations in Philadelphia that have rivaled the Mastronardos. And in New York, there are many that have been considerably bigger.