I have to clarify, De Vito was on the run for the same scheme, he didn't serve time until he was caught, my mistake. But during this time, De Vito blamed the Rizzuto clan for the seizure of the cocaine by the RCMP, Gervasi was killed in '04, after his own money dispute with Arcadi. After this, De Vito himself and his ally Colapelle stopped kicking up to the Rizzutos. All of this is stated in Business And Blood. And Arcadi is just looked upon by some Rizzuto loyalists as unloyal and incapable of steering the ship.

@TommyGambino, No one rats publicly. But I'm sure just like in NY and Chicago, there are confidential informants. And guys who feel comfortable saying certain things to a well known Organized Crime reporter as long as he isn't named. Bottom line is, everything points to Vito no longer answering to the Bonannos after Sciascia was killed. And Sciascia wasn't a one off, there was no Bonanno presence at the funerals of Nick Jr and Nicolo.

And I really don't see how Humphreys & Nicaso's claims should be looked at as meritless, as opposed to Salvatore Vitale, when both Nicaso & Humphreys are two of the best and most knowledgeable experts of Canadian OC.

Well, since some of us clearly disvalue the words of two renowned Canadian OC reporters, lets follow the word of the rat Vitale...



- As of the meeting in Montreal with the Bonanno admin consisting of Vitale, the underboss and Anthony Urso, Massino's consigliere and the Rizzutos, Sciascias murder had alienated Massino from The "Sixth Family", physically and emotionally, because with both LoPresti & Sciascia dead, there were no Montreal emissaries based in NY for Massino to go to.

- Massino sent them up there with the hopes of naming Vito, the new Captain of the Montreal faction. Vitale, claims that Vito scoffed at this idea and suggested to him that his 77-year old father, be named captain, something the NY guys didn't want, something Vito was well aware of.

- The author notes that the indifference Vitale and Urso received from Vito, seemed to mark the severing of ties between Montreal and NY. This was in 2001.

- Vitale really had no idea what Montreal was up to, and as an extension, neither did Massino. Vitale claims a captain, is supposed to have up to 10 soldiers in his crew, with as few as 3. Going by that, Vito was clearly offended with this Capo offer, when he commanded twice as many "made" Bonanno members in Canada and perhaps even more Sicilian Mafioso, who had strictly Rizzuto ties, no Bonanno ones. Vito told Vitale that with Sciascias death, 19 made men stood with him. A number that only included those who were made in America, and excluded the guys Vito and his father brought over and inducted themselves.

- Vitale having to ask, how many made men stood with Vito, also supports the fact of the Rizzutos independence. For had they had actually been subordinate to NY, then surely those names would've been known to Massino beforehand. They weren't.

- And here's the nail in the coffin to this Rizzuto kicking up until Massino flipped argument. "I think the last time I was in their presence when they brought money down was approximately '98,'99" Vitale said of the Montreal gangsters." He goes on to say that Montreal MAY have continued to tribute, but that he had no evidence of it and thus could not be sure.

An RCMP report also supports this, in which it states, "After the murder of Sciascia, the envelopes stopped coming from Canada."

Vitale was explicitly told by Vito, "We're our own little family, there's about 18, 20 of us and we stay by ourselves and everybody respects everybody else." Vitale got the message, because when he got back to NY, he told Massino, "They have their own little splinter group".


All of what I just stated, comes directly, more or less word for word from the Sixth Family book. Vito wasn't kicking up to NY anymore after Sciascias murder.

Of course, why would there be when they were killed the Rizzuto's had nothing to do with New York for years. What I'm saying is did Bonanno guys historically travel to Montreal funerals when they were under NY?

He cut him out of his circle, yet sent him to Montreal to meet with what he thought was the Canadian faction of his crime family?


Reading about Canada, knowing what I've come to learn through two well written books on the matter, RCMP investigations and well informed posters on the other forum, themselves very informed about Canadian OC Vito Rizzuto wasn't kicking up to NY. It isn't a guess, everyone whose informed about Canada say the same thing. He stopped kicking up after Sciascia was killed. All of the evidence supports it.

You guys were just willing to use Vitale and his supposed claim of "Vito kicking up until Massino flipped" as proof of Montreal kicking up. Yet when I use his same statements, which point to them not kicking up, now Vitale didn't know much. The guy clearly told Law Enforcement that the last time a kick up was made that he knew about was between 1998 and '99. And that he had nothing to show him definitively, that the Rizzutos still paid tribute to NY. And they didn't, and I strongly believe that.


Bottom line is this, The Bonannos have no power in Canada, there isn't anyone out there, according to recent RCMP reports representing them. And the Rizzuto Crime Family is a family of its own.

The Bonannos have no power in Canada, there isn't anyone out there, according to recent RCMP reports representing them. And the Rizzuto Crime Family is a family of its own.

You are contradicting yourself.

How are these two the same...??

-Bonannos still have power in Canada today.

-Canada still kicked up to NY at least up until Massino flipped(which was over a decade ago)

I think you are even confusing yourself, chief.

The person that wrote the Sixth Family Book, he got all that directly from Vitale?

Just to be clear,Vitales statements about Massino's entreaty to Vito to be made Caporegime was told by Vitale in the USA V. Patty DeFillipo trial in '06 and supported by confidential police files. The end of the tributes from Montreal to NY comes from a private RCMP briefing, the authors (Lee Lamothe & Adrian Humphreys) were clearly granted access to. The statements Vito made to Vitale about Montreal being its own Family were revealed by Vitale in USA V. Vincent Basciano on March 1, 2006.

Thanks for the info, like I said I've read little of the Bonnano-Rizzuto saga, really interesting stuff.

Is there not a transcript of Vitale & Massino testimony similar to Scars available online?

Uhm, no, the only thing I'm confused about is where you got those two statements from.

What are you attempting to say? Where did I even remotely say that Bonannos still had power in Canada today? Pretty sure I said quite the opposite. I also said that judging from everything I've learned in regards to Canada, which I think has been quite a bit over the years, that the Rizzutos STOPPED kicking up to NY Bonannos and that along with the severing of their ties, that this occurred after Gerlando Sciascia was killed. Thats actually what I said. So where are these contradictions coming from?

And Lee Lamothe & Adrian Humphreys got all that from Vitale, yes. Because it all comes from his statements made to Law Enforcement and his testimony during the Rizzuto/Three Captains trial. Should those sources be questioned too?

I also find it interesting how you specify canadian journalist. As if a canadian journalist wouldnt be the authority on Canadian OC (as opposed to say who? A US one?).

All sources should be questioned, especially informers.

In an earlier post you said Vitale was blowing smoke.

I hate to get in the Vito rizzutto was so powerful well guess what his whole fucking family got slaughtered America or candian or whatever. No one kill any of gottis kids or chins ect.

In regards to someone stating that he kicked up to Massino until Massino flipped. I also said if he actually said that.

His quotes made during various testimonies don't support that though. All I've seen is him stating the '98-'99 thing. I don't see much reason to question things like RCMP reports and court testimony, at least not when there's evidence to support it.

So if Vitale would've said that the Rizzutos continued to pay tribute you think he would be blowing smoke? Does that mean that you choose what statements you want to believe and what not? Just curious.

Vic oreana was on the street 1991 he told his consig sessa to pole the capos so he could go to the other bosses and have them dethrown Carmine persico who locked up in Cali. I'm sure sessa regretted snitching on lil Vic who was he friend cause it went down hill real fast and the rest is history. Vinny basciano must have had some role in it.

If Vitale said that and it was supported by the views of Canadian authority on the matter, his claims would hold merit with me.

But its not just Vitale, if Vitale said that the Rizzutos continued to kick up until 2006, the reason its hard for me to believe that is because all the authorities on the matter don't share that opinion.

It isn't just Vitales word, its also that of the OC reporters from Canada, RCMP reports, and Vitales own testimony, which would contradict the "they kicked up until Massino flipped" claim, as well as them kicking up until 2006.


Do you get what I'm saying? There's nothing, nothing from the RCMP, from Humphreys, Lamothe or Nicaso, that supports the claim of the Rizzutos kicking up after Sciascias death, or until Massino flipped, or until 2006. Nothing I've come across anyway, which is why to me, that claim would be highly questionable.

But I don't even see Vitale saying that, as one of the sources I named, have him quoted stating that the last kick up he was aware of was between 1998 and 1999.

I hate to get in the Vito rizzutto was so powerful well guess what his whole fucking family got slaughtered America or candian or whatever. No one kill any of gottis kids or chins ect.

The thing is, the opinion of these authors concerning this is based solely on Vitale's testimony, and Vitale basically said that he didn't know whether the Rizzutos were still kicking up after Sciascia's death. He might have been right, but it's also been said that at some point Vitale was kept in the dark by Massino because he was not held in high regard by him and the other capos and that his role as underboss was mostly ceremonial. Ultimately, the highest authority on this matter is Massino himself.