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Jun 10th, 2024
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Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848804
06/30/15 09:56 AM
06/30/15 09:56 AM
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Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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My believe is that the books were closed because the families were becoming too large. Apparantly a shitload of guys were made in the 50s. I don't see why the books needed to be closed for 20 years because memberships were sold to a few guys in one particular family.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848816
06/30/15 11:37 AM
06/30/15 11:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Stockholm
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goldhawkroad Offline
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Sad to see you leave Hairy K, one of the best posters here IMO. Dont know the reason but anyway; tack för bra inlägg och lycka till med framtida forskning på området!

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: goldhawkroad] #848819
06/30/15 12:12 PM
06/30/15 12:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: goldhawkroad
tack för bra inlägg och lycka till med framtida forskning på området!

Yeah, HK. What he said whistle.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: HairyKnuckles] #848854
06/30/15 02:31 PM
06/30/15 02:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,390
naples,italy
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naples,italy
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Frank Scalise, an old-timer in Anastasia's family, was caught selling buttons in that family for $50k each. He was whacked in '57. Some believe that's what caused the books to close.


Turnbull get the point but even Patriarca sr made Angiulo because he promises 100,000 a month only for the boss,maybe the book was reopened after Carlo Gambino death.

Some guys was made when the book was officilly close.

Colombo

1972:Alphonse "Allie Boy" Perisco

Bonanno

1968: Vincent Asaro

Gambino

1960: Anthony "Nino" Gangi

Lucchese

1974:
Anthony “Gaspipe” Casso

Genovese

1967:
James “Jimmy Nap” Napoli
Guiseppe “Joseph” Sabato


Info on the others family ?


Furio, you need to pay more attention to other people´s posts. Vincent Asaro was not made in 1967, Casso was made in 76 or 77, Napoli and Sabato also made in the 1970s and Montiglio´s/Capeci´s words on Gaggi being made in 1960 are probably complete bullshit. I´ll say this again, NO ONE was made in New York when the books were closed (the only two exceptions being Nick Bianco and Allie Boy Persico). Is this so hard to understand?

This will be my last post on this site. 2418 is a good number. I have had fun posting here for the last 4 years and gained some very close friends. You know where and how to reach me if help is needed. If I can´t help out with something personally, I will go an extra mile and reach out to others who might be able to help out.

HK

PS, PB, I´ll shoot a PM overthere. (Gosh, a lot of P´s in this last sentence. lol)



Hairy I found the inductions list on black hand forum in a post written by Pogo the clown that never wrote bullshit.

Bon voyage! You'll miss to us.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848866
06/30/15 03:02 PM
06/30/15 03:02 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 316
North StL County, MO
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StLguy Offline
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" Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76"

If you were able to look up that the books were closed during this specific period then why didn't you just keep reading whatever you were reading and figure out why?

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: StLguy] #848930
06/30/15 07:05 PM
06/30/15 07:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 847
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Neo Offline OP
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Neo  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: StLguy
" Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76"

If you werein tgat book.able to look up that the books were closed during this specific period then why didn't you just keep reading whatever you were reading and figure out why?


I've only read: The five families - The rise, decline and resurgence. No mention about it in that book.

Nothing I've read on the net mentions why the books are closed in 57' and reopened in 76'.

Last edited by Neo; 06/30/15 07:08 PM.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Sonny_Black] #848947
06/30/15 07:39 PM
06/30/15 07:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
My believe is that the books were closed because the families were becoming too large. Apparantly a shitload of guys were made in the 50s. I don't see why the books needed to be closed for 20 years because memberships were sold to a few guys in one particular family.


What is the problem with the families getting to large?....not enough gambling customers, shy clients and union schemes to share around or something like that?

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848950
06/30/15 07:47 PM
06/30/15 07:47 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Possibly. It's also been said by some that they put a membership cap on the families so one family couldn't grow too large and pose a threat to the other families. And then there is also the issue of law enforcement scrutiny. I think that they simply decided that there was enough manpower for the families to function properly. At their height the Five Families were estimated to have about 1500 made members and thousands of associates. They were pretty much in control of New York at the time.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Sonny_Black] #848957
06/30/15 08:11 PM
06/30/15 08:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Possibly. It's also been said by some that they put a membership cap on the families so one family couldn't grow too large and pose a threat to the other families.

Exactly, Sonny. And that's why the smaller, out of state families were allowed to grow themselves a bit and still make guys during the hiatus. Because even with the additional manpower, they still posed no threat to New York.

And it's good to see you posting again. It's been a long time since I've seen you here on the regular. This place could use as many quality posters as we can get, especially in this section (to be fair, the other sections run themselves and there's never any trouble there).


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848963
06/30/15 08:41 PM
06/30/15 08:41 PM
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Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Kokomo
Aren't there set amounts of made me for each family? I don't recall were I read it or heard it. I think The Gambinos have a max of 270 made guys, The Westside about 280, the Lukes, Bonananos and Colombos about 150. Is this etched in stone or just misinformation?

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Beanshooter] #848965
06/30/15 08:45 PM
06/30/15 08:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Aren't there set amounts of made me for each family? I don't recall were I read it or heard it. I think The Gambinos have a max of 270 made guys, The Westside about 280, the Lukes, Bonananos and Colombos about 150. Is this etched in stone or just misinformation?

No, I don't think it's misinformation, Beans. But I don't think those numbers reflect today's LCN. The RATIO (family to family) is most likely the same, but not the actual numbers.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848967
06/30/15 08:47 PM
06/30/15 08:47 PM
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Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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As usual, Thank you.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848969
06/30/15 08:50 PM
06/30/15 08:50 PM
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pmac Offline
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Ill miss you again but I was thinking of this. Why would galante make all these guys in 1977 massino and crew ect. If there all proposed three rusty if there's no beef between them. Galante I read somewhere made the first dozen guys in Dec 76 al walker Tony mirra and Sonny red or black. The books I think open when a boss really made a stink. And lastly according to scarpa Carmine persico inducted people into that family off the books on the sneak he said Gerry lang and Russo.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848972
06/30/15 08:54 PM
06/30/15 08:54 PM
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I don't think anyone telling Vito genovese no just cUse he's in a cell down south. But if I still had the same the plumber book I could recall some shit. Them bosses in the 60tys wernt as tight as we've been told I think. The late 70tys guys into the 80tys seemed more at peace. Except galante trying to takeover. After eboli died it was calm.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #848973
06/30/15 08:56 PM
06/30/15 08:56 PM
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pmac Offline
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I'm watching red Sox game sorry for all the misfuckups.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pmac] #848979
06/30/15 09:06 PM
06/30/15 09:06 PM
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pizzaboy Offline
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First off, even though he says he's not posting anymore, I want to preface this by saying that Hairy Knuckles is THE most dedicated researcher I've ever had the pleasure of meeting online. We email each other offsite and I consider him a real friend, even if we've never actually met face to face. But I have to stand by my position that Farby (young Farby) was made around '71 or '72.

The Serpicos were from Corona, but Farby's father (also nicknamed Farby), ended up very close to Buckaloo when he was at his peak. And Buckaloo and Fat Tony did what they had to do to get him his button and put him into 116th. Now, to be clear, I'm talking about the Farby that ended up acting for Chin after he went away in '97. He died a few years later real young. I don't think he even made sixty.

I made the distinction between the Farbys because, believe or not, there were four of them. Two first cousins named Frank Serpico, both nicknamed Farby, who both had sons named Frank Serpico, also nicknamed Farby. And you wonder why FBI agents from Oregon could never get a handle on these guys lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #849022
06/30/15 09:54 PM
06/30/15 09:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,781
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Larry's Bar
In San Jose, they made three members in the 1960's one for each crew, Vito Adragna who was sponsored by his father Frank into the Cerrito-Marino crew, Salvatore Contenza into the North crew who was sponsored by John Misuaca of the Colombos, and Modesto made a member who passed away in 2001. They vetoed four or five other guys during the time the books were closed for New York. SF made members during this time, but I heard Lanza was very selective on who was brought in, by the mid 1980's he was grabbing at what ever he thought would benefit the family.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849053
07/01/15 06:30 AM
07/01/15 06:30 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
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alexandarns  Offline
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Novi Sad,Serbia
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
First off, even though he says he's not posting anymore, I want to preface this by saying that Hairy Knuckles is THE most dedicated researcher I've ever had the pleasure of meeting online. We email each other offsite and I consider him a real friend, even if we've never actually met face to face. But I have to stand by my position that Farby (young Farby) was made around '71 or '72.

The Serpicos were from Corona, but Farby's father (also nicknamed Farby), ended up very close to Buckaloo when he was at his peak. And Buckaloo and Fat Tony did what they had to do to get him his button and put him into 116th. Now, to be clear, I'm talking about the Farby that ended up acting for Chin after he went away in '97. He died a few years later real young. I don't think he even made sixty.

I made the distinction between the Farbys because, believe or not, there were four of them. Two first cousins named Frank Serpico, both nicknamed Farby, who both had sons named Frank Serpico, also nicknamed Farby. And you wonder why FBI agents from Oregon could never get a handle on these guys lol.


Great info PB.He was made very young.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #849059
07/01/15 07:29 AM
07/01/15 07:29 AM
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Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
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I assume that being that Don Carlo put up that ban,Gambinos made the least guys betwen 57 and 76.Maybe even nobody was made by the Gambinos during those years.Wondering does anybody think diffrent?To be true what I said before,I belive HK that there is no prof that somebody was made,than again PB is a pal and I trust him to,so..

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849080
07/01/15 11:15 AM
07/01/15 11:15 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Possibly. It's also been said by some that they put a membership cap on the families so one family couldn't grow too large and pose a threat to the other families.

Exactly, Sonny. And that's why the smaller, out of state families were allowed to grow themselves a bit and still make guys during the hiatus. Because even with the additional manpower, they still posed no threat to New York.

And it's good to see you posting again. It's been a long time since I've seen you here on the regular. This place could use as many quality posters as we can get, especially in this section (to be fair, the other sections run themselves and there's never any trouble there).


Thanks. I only post from time to time in an interesting thread, of which there are very few these days. I agree with you about that this didn't apply to the families outside of New York. I also interpret it as that the books were closed for group ceremonies and that some individuals were still made if, like you said, they had the right rabbi.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: alexandarns] #849085
07/01/15 11:36 AM
07/01/15 11:36 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: alexandarns
I belive HK that there is no prof that somebody was made,than again PB is a pal and I trust him to,so..

Don't believe anything on my account, Alex. Like I've said a million times, HK is the best researcher I've ever met and I'm proud to call him a friend. But he depends on FBI files to a great extent, and I do not. But we respect each other enough to keep it respectful and off the boards.

That's why you'll rarely see us contradict each other, or get into an open debate on the boards, even when we disagree. You can't say that about too many guys because so many posters love to bait each other just for the sake of argument. HK's all class. And the truth is, we actually disagree on VERY few things. But this is obviously one of them.

Farby's one guy, but I firmly believe there were a few others. But I'm not going to go on about it because HK isn't here anymore. He and I will discuss the matter privately. Truth be told, we already have wink smile.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849090
07/01/15 12:10 PM
07/01/15 12:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 145
Stockholm
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goldhawkroad Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: goldhawkroad
tack för bra inlägg och lycka till med framtida forskning på området!

Yeah, HK. What he said whistle.


Pizza: Just a few encouraging words in our native language smile

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849092
07/01/15 12:13 PM
07/01/15 12:13 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,106
Novi Sad,Serbia
alexandarns Offline
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alexandarns  Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: alexandarns
I belive HK that there is no prof that somebody was made,than again PB is a pal and I trust him to,so..

Don't believe anything on my account, Alex. Like I've said a million times, HK is the best researcher I've ever met and I'm proud to call him a friend. But he depends on FBI files to a great extent, and I do not. But we respect each other enough to keep it respectful and off the boards.

That's why you'll rarely see us contradict each other, or get into an open debate on the boards, even when we disagree. You can't say that about too many guys because so many posters love to bait each other just for the sake of argument. HK's all class. And the truth is, we actually disagree on VERY few things. But this is obviously one of them.

Farby's one guy, but I firmly believe there were a few others. But I'm not going to go on about it because HK isn't here anymore. He and I will discuss the matter privately. Truth be told, we already have wink smile.


Understod,you are both gentelmen and great friends,there is no reason you should argue about thing that are not that important.There is a 1000 people that can witess to what i just said,and there is nobody that can say otherwise.
P.s. if you care to trow some names my way,you know where I am buddy. wink

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #849752
07/04/15 10:27 AM
07/04/15 10:27 AM
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Posts: 235
NE1020 Offline
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Doesn't closing the books and capping the size of each families limit the power of LCN in general compared to other OC groups?

Last edited by NE1020; 07/04/15 10:27 AM.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849765
07/04/15 01:04 PM
07/04/15 01:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
Aren't there set amounts of made me for each family? I don't recall were I read it or heard it. I think The Gambinos have a max of 270 made guys, The Westside about 280, the Lukes, Bonananos and Colombos about 150. Is this etched in stone or just misinformation?

No, I don't think it's misinformation, Beans. But I don't think those numbers reflect today's LCN. The RATIO (family to family) is most likely the same, but not the actual numbers.


The official figures for the families over the last 15-20 years have been pretty consistent. Around 200 members for the Genovese was cited by the Feds in the Danny Leo case. 200 for the Gambinos was also cited by the Feds in the Danny Marino case. 112 members was cited for the Colombos in the 2004 NJ OC report. In 2001 the Feds released a no contact list for Robert Lino of all 111 known Bonanno members including Lino himself. Estimated for the Luccheses have also been similar to those for the Colombos and Bonannos, ie about 100 or a little over that. Total estimated NY membership generally ranges from 700-750.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: Neo] #849768
07/04/15 01:16 PM
07/04/15 01:16 PM
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Westside & Gambino's are probably around 225. 200 known members, some guys slip under the feds radar.

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: TommyGambino] #849769
07/04/15 01:26 PM
07/04/15 01:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 441
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mickey2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: TommyGambino
Westside & Gambino's are probably around 225. 200 known members, some guys slip under the feds radar.


what comes just to my mind is the 63 valachi trial.. what would you guys estimate were the number back then of guys who "slipped under the feds radar"?

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: mickey2] #849772
07/04/15 01:40 PM
07/04/15 01:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
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pizzaboy Offline
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pizzaboy  Offline
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Originally Posted By: mickey2
what comes just to my mind is the 63 valachi trial.. what would you guys estimate were the number back then of guys who "slipped under the feds radar"?

Too many to count. There were Westside guys who went to their graves as recently as the '80s and '90s who were COMPLETELY off the Feds' radar. Their obituaries read just like John Q. Public's.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849783
07/04/15 02:18 PM
07/04/15 02:18 PM
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mickey2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: mickey2
what comes just to my mind is the 63 valachi trial.. what would you guys estimate were the number back then of guys who "slipped under the feds radar"?

Too many to count. There were Westside guys who went to their graves as recently as the '80s and '90s who were COMPLETELY off the Feds' radar. Their obituaries read just like John Q. Public's.


so give me a number pb (or anyone else) grin. I know, this has discussed ad nauseam over the time, but it just slipped my memory..

Re: Why were the books closed in 57 and reopened in 76 [Re: pizzaboy] #849788
07/04/15 03:13 PM
07/04/15 03:13 PM
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Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: mickey2
what comes just to my mind is the 63 valachi trial.. what would you guys estimate were the number back then of guys who "slipped under the feds radar"?

Too many to count. There were Westside guys who went to their graves as recently as the '80s and '90s who were COMPLETELY off the Feds' radar. Their obituaries read just like John Q. Public's.


And that's what Cosa Nostra is suppose to be about!

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