boy, do I agree with that. you talk about a hornets nest, Israel attacking Iran, perish the thought. it could very well lead to ww3, and I will stand by that.

Sure Russia and China will start a nuclear war if Israel attacks Iran to destroy their nuclear capacity. You got to be kidding me man.

Iran getting the bomb that could definately lead to ww3

Yes.So, we agree about a double standard? I've written about how patronizing and condescending that the media treatment is for Black people. I've also shared my view that certain social programs, despite the stated intent, exist only to create more people who "need" the program.They aren't combating problems, just guaranteeing the future of the program. When people have written on this site about not wanting to say something non pc about Blacks, I've challenged them to speak the truth as they see it and we can discuss it. I don't run from honest discussion. I think though that people use the "oh, why do I have to be PC" idea as a shield. Some are not interested in DIAlogue, they just want to be able to say anything they want in whatever language they want and not be questioned or challenged. That's not discussion. That's a rant.



7 years into an 8 year presidency? I think not. There was such an outpouring of open racial hatred against Obama that his (legit)critics didn't want to be associated with that. Those who criticize his policies smartly distance themselves from THAT crowd so that their points are taken seriously. Initially I thought some of the public overtly racist rhetoric was planted by the dnc to give Obama political cover on certain issues. I figured that even if people thought some of this stuff, none would be fool enough to publicly use slurs,etc about the president.Then you had unapologetic racists like police commissioner Robert Copeland of New Hampshire who put a public face to some of this kind of hatred.
There are checks and balances in place for our government so the idea of a president being able to disregard the constitution and force his agenda on Americans sounds like talk show rhetoric.



???? On any given day, most elected officials can be investigated for corruption.In New Jersey?? Go look up the recent history of New Jersey elected officials and appointees who are under investigation or indictment and then come back with a straight face and repeat the line about Menendez.



I like to formulate my OWN opinions about issues so I tend not to watch the "editorials disguised as news stories" on fox,msnbc, or cnn,or a lot of mainstream press so you've got me there. Those channels are going to predictably recite the platforms they are told to say from one "side" or the other.I take it that you subscribe to this type of thinking because you later said that I "must have gotten my info from Sharpton on msnbc". Sharpton might as well be a tool of the "other side" of political debate.Very smart people use his presence or views on certain topics to manipulate people into the other direction. You don't have to appeal to logic or show people how an issue might affect THEM, if you have a polarizing figure like Al to point to. A Bogeyman.People often vote or think against their own best interests as a result of Sharpton standing on the "other side"of an issue. People on the other spectrum use Coulter,OReilly and Hannity to similar effect. Crowds want to boo the heel more than they want to cheer for the babyface in wrestling lingo.I try not to fall victim to any of that. I record c-span a lot. I gather that Netanyahu's speech and some of Israel's stances are being criticized....similar to how you alluded to criticism of Obama's stances and policies earlier. I'll concede that I over reached with my statement about media pundits being afraid to say anything critical about Jews or Israel.

To many on the Left any criticism of Obama is racist. That in itself is racist since it's saying that he's too weak to take criticism on account of his blackness. The fact is that all presidents get criticized. George W. Bush was hung in effigy, there were movies made in which he was killed, he was attacked in every possible way. He was unfairly blamed for Hurricane Katrina when it was the mayor of New Orleans and governor of Louisiana who failed to take appropriate measures in the wake of the storm, yet idiots like Kanye West attacked him as hating black people because that's what they saw on TV. If Bush hated black people he wouldn't have been the president who has done more for Africans than any other: http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/07/they-miss-bush-in-africa.php. Bush's 2007 State of the Nation address was one of the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCDDzFJQO9M

In the case of President Obama, even the more extreme criticisms aren't racist.

1. The claim that he was born in Kenya. Obama dithered when it came to releasing his birth records which gave rise to this claim. He should have released everything immediately. He still refuses to release his college records, but that's another story. Moreover, even one of his own aunts is on record stating that he was born in Kenya. Is she racist? As someone who does genealogical research I believe there is sufficient evidence to conclude that he was born in Hawaii, but because others disagree doesn't make it racist. John McCain was challenged on his place of birth, as was Mitt Romney. It's a legitimate question for anyone who aims to be President.

2. The claim that he's Muslim. I don't believe he's Muslim. He said he's a Christian, but he's theology is probably more of the Black Liberation Theology that his former pastor, Jeremiah Wright, preached. Yet as a child he attended Muslim schools in Indonesia and he was listed as a Muslim. He also refuses to call Islamic terrorism "Islamic" or Muslim. He also has allowed the Muslim Brotherhood to meet with him in the White House multiple times. All together it is not difficult to see how people would believe he is really a Muslim.

3. The claim that he's unpatriotic. Obama himself when he ran for President called Bush "unpatriotic," so it's a double-standard to say people are racist for calling him that. That would make Obama racist for saying that about Bush. When Giuliani said that Obama hates America, it's based on Obama saying that he wants to fundamentally transform America. I don't think that Obama hates America and Obama has been ambivalent on what he meant when he said it. Some people think that means transforming it into a socialistic country. Again, if Obama would define and explain what he means and not pretend that he never said these things there wouldn't be all this room for multiple interpretations.

4. Thanks to you gets, I became aware of what this police chief said. He used the N-word for Obama and refused to apologize for it. Yes, that's racist and he shouldn't have said it. Most people don't think that way and it's wrong for the Left to turn that into representing the way all white people feel. He represents himself. In today's world this sort of language is marginalized. This is an example of real racism that's different for the false forms above.

Palestinians have suffered terribly from a lack of peace. But, so far they have failed to acknowledge how their delusions of "throwing the Jews into the sea," coupled with their own bad choices and decisions, have created barriers to peace. Case in point:

Arafat died in November 2004, leaving his family in Switzerland richer by the ~$2 billion he embezzled from his own people. Mahmoud Abbas became leader of the Palestinian Authority. He seemed to be interested in peace, so the Israeli government turned over Gaza to the PA--in the process uprooting 9,000 Jewish settlers, some forcibly, so the Palestinians wouldn't be troubled by any Jews in their midst. The Palestinians promptly installed Hamas, a Muslim terrorist organization whose charter calls for Israel's destruction. Article 13 of the Hamas Covenant states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

Hamas rained 7,000 rockets on Israel, and provoked two wars with Israel, using its own people as shields, its own hospitals, schools and mosques as weapons centers, so that they could parade the suffering they inflicted on their own people to the world's media as "Israeli war crimes." Hamas still rules Gaza because the Palestinians want to believe that Israel, not Hamas, is responsible for their suffering.

If a Muslim terrorist organization like Al Quaeda, which wants to destroy the US because we are a Christian-majority
nation, won an election in southern Canada or northern Mexico and started raining rockets on Minnesota or Texas, how long would it take any of us to demand that our government do everything in its power to stop them?

Turnbull, I couldn't have said it any better.

On how smart Obama is the truth is he isn't. When someone see's what he is doing is not working spending. A smart person would try something else. Not this guy he thinks let's spend even more.

There is a reason why no one can see his marks in school. If he did well they would not keep his results sealed.

So am I racist because I think he is not smart?

And let's not forget Arafat was offered almost everything the Palestinians have ever wanted at the Camp David back in 2000. He turned it down. Why? Because he knew that the whole BS about fighting and being abused by Israel is their bread and butter. If every Israeli disappeared tomorrow, and the Palestinians actually did get all the land, they wouldn't know what to do with it or themselves. It's hard to have any sympathy for the Palestinians when they've so readily bought into the line of BS their leaders - whether it be the PLO or Hamas - are feeding them.

Don't feel bad. Few people could. He doesn't post nearly as much as he did five years ago, but TB is still the smartest guy on this board. By fifty IQ points.

Especially on this subject. Debating Israel with the man is like trying to talk defense with Parcells.

I mentioned the patronizing and paternal way that media tends to treat Black people.The far left uses that as political cover for Obama at times but there is a very real undercurrent of racial hatred for Obama in this country.Some of it because he is Black, some because he is perceived as being Arab.

When MCCain was running for prez I saw this clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpE6ljPjSAk

and I thought..the woman is a plant from the democrats....sent to make mccain look bad, but I heard this topic pop up again and again

certain popular radio host quoted as saying

"he's an arab from arab parts of africa"



fear mongering....manipulating people..
the woman in the mccain clip wasn't a plant, her views were/are shared by others





agree




He has Arabic name...first, middle and last .medium brown complexion....he could be an arab....except for the fact that his father is Black Kenyan(redundant) and his mother is a White American...but when do facts matter in propaganda? and for the most part arab=moslem and moslem=arab as far as perception


The narrative in many different ways is that he is an outsider,infiltrator..so the code words are....socialist, arab, muslim, hates America. The people who are paid very well to know these things, know which code words people will respond to about obama.

highest level of politics, pretty much there are no rules.


the admin. knows that this type of energy is out there, so similar to how judo works, they use the momentum of others to their advantage and use media to mix these voices with the legit critics to make people think that they are one and the same.I think some of Obama's ambivalent responses serve this purpose.


many of you guys out there are 3-5 generations removed from the times when American catholics were called papists.They were severely hated and discriminated against.Look up the articles about some of the pioneering American catholic politicians up to JFK..you'll see some of the same outsider/infiltrator "questioning their patriotism and true allegiance" talk expressed by the "American public" then.
Standard politics.....only the "villains" have changed.


4. thanks..the police commish only stood out because he stood behind what he wrote.Across the country several bloggers,writers,government workers and a few elected officials were caught using racial slurs about their president and denied it or apologized. I used to think the stories were made up by Dems. until it kept happening.

@gets - When I look at YouTube videos and read the comments or see tweets or Facebook posts, I know that racism is alive and well in this country. The racist posters are pretty open about it. The idea that there are secret racists is also true, but not as much as the Left seems to think it is. The same goes for the code words. That's why when I take the time to read comments about Obama being a Muslim (not an Arab, I've never seen one that claimed he was an Arab), they sincerely believe it but do not express any racial animus toward him. In fact, there are a number of black people who think he's a Muslim.

As for socialist, there's nothing racial about that either. Socialists come in all colors, and while I don't think he's a socialist, his policies and ideas are very socialistic/progressive and find a lot of agreement with senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders (who is an actual socialist).

To those who believe he hates America, they mean he hates capitalistic America. They believe he hates the free market economy, and that he believes in government jobs over private ones. They believe that he wants an ever-increasing amount of control over the private sector, part of which is through the Affordable Care Act.

The racial code words were used in the 1950s to early 1970s by Democrat politicians. I've seen accusations, but no evidence that they've been used by Republicans. The Left claimed that Richard Nixon's campaign of "law and order" was a code word, but it wasn't. Nixon left the racist vote to George Wallace. The Left claimed that the use of an ad about Willie Horton was another code word for racism, but in fact it was a legitimate issue that a furlough was given to a murderer and a rapist, who committed another rape while out on this furlough. Moreover, Democrat Senator Al Gore was the first one to bring up Willie Horton in the primary. I could go on and on, but the point is that with rare exceptions the claim that racial code words are being used by the GOP is nothing more than left-wing propaganda. Again, I belong to neither party, but I am interested the truth.

Finally, on treatment of Catholics, again context is necessary. From the 1300s to the 1600s there were Catholic persecutions of Protestants. John Wyclif was burned at the stake as was Jon Huss. There were the persecutions by Queen Mary I. There was the St. Bartholomew's Massacre in 1572 in which 5000 to 30,000 French Protestants were killed. There was the Inquisition. Not only that, but until 1870 the Pope ruled a country called the Papal States that had its own army. To Protestants who had a history of experience persecution, to them the Pope was the anti-Christ and yes, Catholics were called Papists. There are historical reasons that Protestants did not trust Catholics, yet Maryland was founded as a Catholic colony and Charles Carroll was a Catholic and a Founding Father who signed the Declaration, and Daniel Carroll and Thomas Fitzsimons both signed the Constitution. Moreover, until 1959 the Catholic Church considered Protestants to be heretics, from 1959 they became "separated brethren." This was only about a year before JFK ran for President. As I wrote, context is everything.

I personally think that Obama's position as president has brought a lot of racism to the surface.When govt. workers and law enforcement officials are caught sending emails with slurs....time and time and time again, that's a byproduct of people holding certain views about Blacks and resenting the fact that a member of a group that they despise is president.
It's not lazy or criminal Blacks that racists hate....they enjoy seeing those people as it reinforces their prejudices, it's successful Blacks that the true hatred is reserved for.

Later in this post, you write about history of Protestant/Catholic animus in Europe in an attempt to place American anti-Catholicism in context. Wouldn't you agree that there was anti Arab and anti-Moslem sentiment in general in America post 911 ? and on a level infinitely higher than whatever anti catholic sentiment that greeted the first large waves of catholic immigrants here? You cited examples of terrorism/persecution from 100s of years before large numbers of Catholics arrived in America and faced prejudice. Barack Hussein Obama ran for office six years after the 911 terrorist attack on the country by arab moslems. You don't think the false perception that he's not really Black but an Arab was fear mongering?


I wrote that the socialist and "hates America" tags are codes for an outsider infiltrator narrative about Obama.
Previous Dem. presidents have been accused of expanding govt., over regulation of business. Obama is the ONE labeled as "hating America" and one of the only ones of being a closet socialists.



Code words painting candidates in racial/ethnic terms or framing issues along race lines are part of political bag of tricks used by both parties. I don't think that I implied that only one side uses them. A simple search will turn up examples used by GOP.Democratic Black or White ethnic candidates for statewide or national offices surely were targeted by such tactics. The late Mario Cuomo. Former Sen. Braun of Illinois.Former Gov. of Virginia Doug Wilder. Al Gore's running mate in 2000, Joe Lieberman, an orthodox jew, certainly was targeted by "coded language" in campaign ads. Al Gore lost his HOME state in that election, though he and Clinton carried Tenn. both times when they ran in the previous two pres. elections.


F1, while I'm reading of the past persecutions I don't think I see them occurring in the countries that the majority of American protestants were from at the time when Catholics started arriving en masse to the U.S. For what you're saying to be true, about context, I think the ones exhibiting hatred to the new Catholic immigrants would have had personal family histories of persecution at the hands of Catholics. There were factors in Ireland that forced large number of Irish to come here and the anti-Catholic feelings and animus was a reaction to that...and how some felt that the Protestant fabric of the country was being threatened.

You may be correct that some of the racism has been brought to the surface. In the case of Obama, when racial slurs are used about him it is more personal because of his policies, not because he's part of a despised group. (I'm not defending, just explaining based on what I see.)



Have to disagree with you here. If you actually read what they write it's clear that they have no enjoyment in seeing "lazy or criminal" blacks. Just the opposite. Moreover, I see the greatest hatred toward successful blacks coming from other blacks. The label "Uncle Tom" is thrown around all the time, as is "token" and "Sambo." To me, these are hateful terms. White people don't attack other whites this way, it's a legacy from slavery where one group of blacks was set up to attack another. It's a form of fascist though-policing that forces independent thinkers to have conform to a viewpoint they don't agree with. Go read the comments under videos put out by black conservatives and the hate will be obvious. The language is often as bad as any white Neo-Nazi.





Again, the claim was that he was a Muslim, not an Arab. I never once read a claim by someone that said he was an Arab. I don't think there's been any doubts about his racial ancestry: he's biracial, half black and half white. He considers himself black and downplays his white heritage.

As for anti-Arab and anti-Muslim sentiment, yes, I agree that it increased after 9/11, but I think that most of the anti-Muslim sentiment is toward Muslim extremists. Again, it needs to be contextualized. Most of the claims of anti-Muslim sentiment comes from CAIR, which is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood so their claims have to be taken with a grain of salt. Second, many American Muslims in fact do want Shari'a in this country, do want a worldwide caliphate, are against Israel, and support apostates being put to death. Considering that, anti-Muslim sentiment, at least for those who believe in the above, is not unreasonable. I myself attended a mosque in Southern California years ago before 9/11, and the imam preached the destruction of Jews and Israel. I heard it myself.





I know that you believe that they're codes, but if his political positions actually ARE socialistic, then the complaints are true. As for hating America, the only well-known person who said that, as far as I know, is Giuliani. I don't agree with him, but I do agree that he wants to transform America from free market to a statist, progressive Democrat economy, and progressive is, historically speaking, socialistic. That's not a code, that's a fact based on his policies and his ideology.



Code words painting candidates in racial/ethnic terms or framing issues along race lines are part of political bag of tricks used by both parties. I don't think that I implied that only one side uses them. A simple search will turn up examples used by GOP.Democratic Black or White ethnic candidates for statewide or national offices surely were targeted by such tactics. The late Mario Cuomo. Former Sen. Braun of Illinois.Former Gov. of Virginia Doug Wilder. Al Gore's running mate in 2000, Joe Lieberman, an orthodox jew, certainly was targeted by "coded language" in campaign ads. Al Gore lost his HOME state in that election, though he and Clinton carried Tenn. both times when they ran in the previous two pres. elections.




Again, disagree. They don't need to have personally experienced persecution. It could be a historic memory of persecution. Compare this to Obama's Selma speech. He used "we" this and "we" that, yet not a single person present personally experienced slavery, and the young people present didn't experience Jim Crow. There's no indication that Obama himself ever experienced discrimination; to the contrary, he seems to have experienced only privilege. The original civil rights marches from the 1960s included Jews, Catholics and Protestants, blacks and whites, Democrats and Republicans. One of the most conservative Republicans in Congress until the 1990s was Representative Bob Dornan. He was there in his Air Force uniform in the crowd for King's "I Have a Dream" speech. Yet Obama created his own historical memory that included gay marriage, an issue that wasn't there in the 1950s and 60s.

I made the comment above on March 8,2015



news from March 9, 2015
North Bergen Town Hall Quiet After Agents Raid Parks Dept.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/...department.html

Disagreeing with a policy might evoke anger or even profanity but when slurs start being tossed around it's clear that the disagreement goes way beyond his policies. And while most youtube commenters/internet racists are teen trolls, the slurs about Obama I'm referring to are from adults..sometimes using work email accounts..basically not giving a F.


Racists love to see the groups they despise living up or down to expectations. Look at the tv ratings for some of the "ethnic" themed reality shows and you'll note that there aren't enough members of said group to explain the high ratings. There are Black ones and ones for other ethnic groups. Outsiders are watching and laughing.There's a website that I won't name that basically shows Black people in the worst light imaginable routinely, owned by a Haitian American actually.not enough black teens in america to explain the tremendous web traffic.Outsiders watching in droves and laughing.

Go look up ANY negative video about blacks on youtube...and I'd bet money that it attracts, like flies to dog ish, lot of comments from people who are outsiders.....they can't stay away....they love it.

You don't think a Harvard educated Black president invokes more hatred in the heart of a racist than a Black gangbanger who lives 5 states away?????

Are you saying that Blacks reserve hatred for "successful" blacks or for politically conservative Blacks?

There are surely elements of the Black community that resent both groups, and I can speak about that but those are separate factions of people. please clarify.




The famous radio host who I quoted as saying "He's(Obama) an arab, from Arab parts of Africa" was Limbaugh. The audio and transcript exists on line for sure.As you know Limbaugh is pretty influential so I'm sure you can find comments or clips of people honestly stating that they think he is an Arab......from the first election probably up to now. The McCain clip shows a woman repeating the sentiment and McCain being embarrassed for her.

Downplays his white heritage??? Are you familiar with the history of what race means in this country and the "one drop rule"? I alluded to race mixing and the law in the great migration thread. Pretty complex discussion but unlike say in Latin American countries where there were legal and social stratification of people based on % of Black,White, and Indigenous blood, in America there was White and there was Black....defined by the law.



Do you think the woman in the McCain video knows anything about Islam other than what she was told by Limbaugh,etc. Do you think the people who beat up Sikhs after 911 know or care to know the difference between Islam and Sikhism?

Do you think the average person ,makes a distinction between ANY of the branches of Islam or any organization rooted in Islam?
Average person doesn't read and formulate their own opinion..not about sports and definitely not about politics.

ever have sports debate with person who just repeats what espn shows say?

certain that you've read comments or had debates with people where you can hear other people's words coming out of their mouths.



I came of age during the latter part of the Cold War. Heard a lot of adults speak dismissively of pinko commie bastards,etc without the faintest idea about what communism was or why they were opposed to it .they just knew that "dem Ruskies" were communists and that it was "wrong"

Today...you can find clips of people from 2008 election spouting Obama is a socialist rhetoric without a clue about why that would be something they are opposed to.

Rush Limbaugh was under fire years ago for being a "racist" and you had people on camera who were fed false limbaugh quotes and who had never listened to the show just repeating the line.

Lot of people are puppets.
just give people simple narratives....code words and point them in the direction you want them to go.


Rudy is the latest to use the "hates America line" but variations of the same line have been used by limbaugh, other talk show hosts and celebs. trust me. i can search and list.



I said specifically that I think your point would ring true if the majority of Americans at the time of the Irish immigration descended from areas where the incidents you cited occurred . Not if they personally experienced it but if it was part of their cultural/regional/family history.If America was primarily made up of Protestants from Spain, for example, your point about deeply entrenched resentment for Catholics would ring true because of the horrors of the Inquisition and what kind of feeling would linger with Spanish protestants even centuries later.
Jews worldwide celebrate Passover for example..because the meaning of it/story behind it is part of their cultural history and identity.The Protestant denominations scattered across Europe weren't cohesive enough as a group for the legacy of oppression at the hands of Catholics to have the same effect.

About the Selma speech.
To a group of Americans in Alabama, Black and White..slavery segregation civil rights and modern era of living/working together as Americans is part of all of their cultural and regional history.

Obama never experienced discrimination? ??? Do you think that Obama or any person has a special lotion that makes them immune from discrimination for their entire life?
If you have any close friends who grew up in America and are not visibly "White"..ask them if they have ever experienced discrimination/prejudice/profiling?
Dr. Condoleeza Rice mentions instances of experiencing discrimination growing up in one of her books . Harvard professor Dr.Henry Louis Gates was famously arrested when a longtime neighbor called the cops on him for "breaking into his own house".Cops showed up....immediately saw pictures of the "culprit" all over the house...demanded id anyway...prof. got indignant and was arrested.
Obama probably mentions incidents involving discrimination in his books.
I wonder what would make you conclude that Obama had lived a life of privilege and hadn't encountered discrimination.
Privileged people don't graduate from law school tens of thousands of dollars in debt from undergrad and law school loans..
And discrimination didn't go away when Civil Rights legislation was passed.

I agree Binnie. The sight of Netanyahu, standing in front of the Senate...in the President's place, was outrageous.

Obama needs to take Darth Vader's advice and let that anger out.

This is going to be one long post LOL





Sad but true. I sometimes debate the internet racists, but more often I mock them since most don't listen to reason. Quite a few are from other parts of the world, and a lot of Arab Muslim posters use the "N-word" I have noticed. Often the same ones make anti-Jewish remarks too, but that's to be expected.




As the example with the Haitian American, many of the people who buy into the negative stereotypes are black Americans. One of the most popular shows on TV right now is Empire, about a black drug kingpin. If it were up to me there'd be more positive role models on TV, but not sure how they would do in the ratings. The same could be said for gangsta rap, which is followed by blacks, whites, and other ethnic and racial groups. When an entertainer goes public any member of the public is free to like that person, and often that celebrity goes after the lowest common denominator.



While a black president of Harvard may provoke anger for some white racists, my observation from reading their posts tells me that the most racist remarks are reserved for the gangbangers, the thugs, and the single mothers.

Yes, I am saying that there are many blacks who target conservative blacks for abuse. They call them the most horrible names, names that would make a klansman proud. Go to YouTube and look at some of the posts for Alfonzo Rachel, or just do a search for "black" and "conservative."






I did a search and found where Limbaugh said it, on Sept. 22, 2008. I didn't see the original transcript, the oldest one I saw is from Media Matters. I also saw it on a site called American Conservative. Both sites criticized him for it, but the American Conservative one really mocked him for it. I was unaware of it. I can guess that when he said "Arab" he meant "Muslim," because I've heard others make that same mistake (there are still a large number of Arab Christians). I remember talking with an older person a few years ago, don't remember who it was, but she said "Arab" when she meant "Muslim" in this same exact way and I corrected her. I don't know if Limbaugh ever corrected himself, but it's not important enough for me to spend my money to find out. While searching this I think there was someone else who made this same mistake, maybe Monica Crowley, but didn't go back to read the article.

As for the "one-drop" rule, that wasn't some federal law but a state law from Virginia. Other states, almost all in the South, had similar laws: "

Among them were hypodescent laws, defining as black anyone with any black ancestry, or with a very small portion of black ancestry. Tennessee adopted such a "one-drop" statute in 1910, and Louisiana soon followed. Then Texas and Arkansas in 1911, Mississippi in 1917, North Carolina in 1923, Virginia in 1924, Alabama and Georgia in 1927, and Oklahoma in 1931. During this same period, Florida, Indiana, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and Utah retained their old "blood fraction" statutes de jure, but amended these fractions (one-sixteenth, one-thirty-second) to be equivalent to one-drop de facto."

I'm not sure if I'd qualify since I'm less than 1/8th black, but it's a stupid racist law that has since been removed. I think the funniest ironic moment happened when a white racist had DNA testing done and found out he had black ancestry. Hilariousness ensues: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/20/living/white-supremacist-one-drop-identity/

At any rate, my opinion is that Obama should have called himself biracial and role modeled the fact that the USA is becoming more racially mixed. In a couple hundred years we'll all be some shade of brown and hopefully we can put this stupidity behind us. We need to get to the point that we all belong to the human race and that's the only race there is.






I don't know which woman talking with McCain you're talking about. Could you post a link? I don't disagree with the rest of what you wrote. A lot of people just aren't all that bright, or they fail to research the facts before embarrassing themselves.





Agreed.





On Catholic discrimination, again, they didn't have to personally experience it but through historic memory. One of the most popular Christian books, maybe until the 1980s, was "Foxe's Book of Martyrs" by John Foxe. It was written in the 1500s and vividly described Catholic persecutions against Protestants. Just like watch a film like "12 Years A Slave" can ignite anger today, this book did the same thing among Protestants.

On Selma and Obama, Condoleeza Rice grew up in the South and personally experience murderous racism as a child. Obama grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia and did not have those experiences. He even received private tutoring paid for by his wealthy white grandparents. He went to Occidental College, transferred to Columbia, then to Harvard. Yes, he had debts, but so do most students. It took me about 20 years to pay off my student debts.

In the Henry Louis Gates case there's no evidence of racism. The cop was called by a neighbor to investigate and Gates resisted. I've been stopped by the police before myself, but I was quiet, respectful and polite. Gates brought it on himself, and I speak as a longtime fan of Gates who has several of his books. Following the incident Obama stuck his nose in it, made a statement he later retracted, then said, "Hey guys, let's get a beer!" He spoke first when he should have let local justice take its course. As the President, he's also the highest law enforcement officer in the country, over the Attorney General. He should have done his homework instead of undermining the cop. I was pretty disappointed in Gates because I had high regard for him.

And I know discrimination hasn't gone away because of legislation, but on the other hand we shouldn't deny the progress that has been made. There are no racist laws on the books anymore and racism is generally considered shameful.

Holy shit. I needed to open my Kindle to get through that post, Faithful .

@F1,


I will try to tie in all of the tangents and side issues at once. I introduced some of these points into the discussion for comparison sake,not to have all these separate tangents.

1.Internet racists don't respond to reason or logic and they are not limited to White people and nowhere did I say or imply that.That's the issue with trolls, you never know who they are but their intent is just to get people angry. Prejudice and discrimination are practiced by ALL people on earth.

2. I brought up the fact that the owner of the disgraceful website is Black, specifically Haitian American ...just as a matter of fact.He's a sellout...promoting and normalizing images of violence and anti social behavior to a generation of Black kids who are being influenced to see themselves as less than .Again, it's one of the most popular sites in the country and the world..so clearly others enjoy seeing this type of Black imagery too.
The show that you brought up, Empire, about a former drug dealer turned record label owner...has made television history in terms of ratings and consecutive ratings increases per episode.Clearly being watched by millions of non Black people. So despite your assertion that" many of the people buying into stereotypes are Black Americans" the mainstream ratings for these types of shows & sites prove otherwise.

3.I maintain that the level of overt racism and the rise of ugly of Black stereotypes in popular media is a direct response to Obama being elected. For comparison(not to create another side issue)I bet that during the "women's lib" movement....Playboy magazine subscriptions and media depiction of women as sexual objects increased also...for similar reasons.

4.Youtube personality shows , politically based or otherwise, use hyperbole and provocative video titles to draw more views.The monetized videos make money based on number of views. Nothing excuses people using hateful language and slurs but the commenters are pawns unwittingly being used by people who are smarter than them.Internet racist and trolls(of all backgrounds) are losers so it's funny seeing them being manipulated and used.Black people who hold socially conservative views aren't rare at all but the yt ones are entertainers first,regardless of what views they hold. I can point you to some Blacks who are self described conservatives who promote their views without hyperbole, extremism, or attention grabbing titles who don't attract trolls.


5.(limbaugh meaning to say muslim instead of arab)Nobody...and I mean nobody believes that what Limbaugh said or says is an honest mistake.

6.About Obama and how he SHOULD use "biracial" as identity. On what grounds do you think that you can say how another person should identify themselves, especially a person that doesn't share your personal ethnic/racial background?
I mentioned the legacy or race and the one drop rule for context and mentioned the different system in Latin America for contrast.

As far as your implication that race mixing will reduce or eliminate racism,etc......it hasn't worked in Latin America where Blacks,Whites, and Indigenous have been mixing for close to 500 years, so I doubt that it will happen here in America.Human nature being what it is..a color caste system will eventually develop as it has elsewhere.

7.The woman calling Obama an arab is in one of my earlier posts her name is Gayle Quinnel.
Americans work and have children and lives....so when you read about people being able to have detailed views on just about every political issue, more times than not they have found a media outlet that they trust..and just through "osmosis" they develop views and outlooks that are fed to them. That was my point about people responding to code words and media narratives instead of having the time or inclination to read or develop their own takes or views. So Obama is an Arab because the news/talk show outlet they follow said he was.

8. I introduced the papist/nativist point in the thread to point out that the narrative used to paint Obama as an outsider/infiltrator is not a new one..only Muslims have replaced Catholics. I do not think that past terrorism of Protestants at the hands of Catholics had much to do with the anti-Catholicism that I made reference to...though it might have been used to bolster the point. I am under the impression that it was partly because of people thinking that due to the sheer numbers of Catholic immigrants...that the Prot. fabric and core of this country would be disrupted and that Catholics held allegiance to the the Roman Catholic Church FIRST....over national allegiance.

9. I used Dr.s Rice and Gates specifically to point out that this magic lotion that prevents one from being discriminated against doesn't exist.
Gates in fact was under the impression that the lotion did exist if you read the transcript of the police encounter. He said to the cop "do you know who I am?" I joked that he cop said "yeah, you're the 60 year old Black man who is going to jail".
F1, We've both been stopped by police and responded rationally ...me probably more rationally out of fear(because I'm 8/8th Black)....but until your longtime neighbor calls the cops and the police enter YOUR house and accuse YOU of breaking into YOUR house..I don't think you can honestly say what your reaction would be.

police can use discretion/judgement and a 60 year old man who walks with a cane being indignant while complying...didn't have to be arrested

charges were dropped later....so ....draw your own conclusion

About privilege and discrimination.Even the children of the most wealthy people who live in private communities and have trust funds, experience a different world when they step out of their cocoon to go off to school or work.
So Barack Obama, who is NOT from a privileged background, and who went to school in New York and Boston(area) was certainly going to experience all types of things(good and bad) that he may not have had to deal with growing up. To suggest otherwise is not realistic.

And again, when or if you ask a close friend about their life experiences....undoubtedly regardless of their socio economic background, they will have experienced some form of discrimination/profiling/prejudice.

Privileged people do not attend private schools on scholarships or have to pay off college/law school loans like Obama.

Children of hard working & successful or well off parents sometimes don't have to take out loans to go to college.
Privileged kids? absolutely not.

At various points during his presidency and first campaign, opposition tried to paint him as a privileged elitist..kept bringing up the schools he went to....for political reasons to certain demographic of voters.

His father LEFT the family when he was a child, and his mother's family is made up of hard working successful people. In what way is this considered a "privileged" background?


This country and our society have certainly moved forward and made progress, but like I said....speak to person who is close to you who is not visibly White and ask them about their experiences.

There is no doubt that some, perhaps more than some, in Congress don't want to give Obama what he wants because, consciously or not, they don't want a black man to succeed. But racism alone doesn't explain Obama's failures. And, remember that, despite pervasive racism in America, Obama was twice elected president by a largely white electorate, running against white candidates.

Well said.

I couldn't possibly agree more with that assessment. Obama could not have won a single election without the White vote, let alone two. Now I agree that his Presidency has awakened some latent racism in A LOT of White people. Some of them probably didn't even know they were racists until they had a Black President. But the man has been a complete and abject failure, on everything from the way he communicates to the masses to foreign policy. And he can't possibly blame that on racism (although his spin doctors and media puppets certainly try their best to present it that way).

Another good post

Kind of a scary thought, we say we've come along way but have we?

Yes, we've come a long way. I think it was Don Imus who said that we haven't advanced at all since Selma. This was around 2006. And that was about the most ridiculous fucking thing I've ever heard. And I always liked Imus. But Selma? Are people still burning crosses? Are Black folks still getting lynched? Give me a break, Don.

Faith1 and I have had a pretty long discussion , so perhaps it's a bit hard follow my points, but I haven't said or implied that any elected official is primarily motivated by race or racism.I most certainly haven't said that about the situation involving Iran. Partisanship trumps almost everything...always.(if only for survival)

I also never said or implied that the majority of American people hold racist views.

Never wrote or implied that Obama's failures were because of racism.

If you find instance of me writing any of these things..please provide a link so that I can edit them...but I can't defend points that I did not make.

What I will say.
The actual numbers of adults being "caught" expressing slurs and racial hatred on camera, emails, social media about Obama or Blacks is infinitely small relative to the population of the country, but it gives a public face to sentiment that obviously exists.The fact that Obama was elected twice doesn't change that.

As of today 3/11/15 there are at least two instances of members quoting film or tv scenes with Black ethnic slurs on this site for "fun". Still up.no warning from mods to "cut it out" or "tone it down".This is America so people have the right to write what they want and I have right to place them on ignore. Those comments have NOTHING to do with with the 99.99% of the people who, even when they disagree with me, show common courtesy. But the ones who wrote it felt comfortable enough to do it.

And like I wrote earlier...disagreeing with a policy might evoke anger or even profanity but when slurs start being tossed around it's clear that the disagreement goes way beyond his(Obama's) policies.

I couldn't possibly agree more with that assessment. Obama could not have won a single election without the White vote, let alone two. Now I agree that his Presidency has awakened some latent racism in A LOT of White people. Some of them probably didn't even know they were racists until they had a Black President. But the man has been a complete and abject failure, on everything from the way he communicates to the masses to foreign policy. And he can't possibly blame that on racism (although his spin doctors and media puppets certainly try their best to present it that way). [/quote]

Another good post

Kind of a scary thought, we say we've come along way but have we? [/quote]
Yes, we've come a long way. I think it was Don Imus who said that we haven't advanced at all since Selma. This was around 2006. And that was about the most ridiculous fucking thing I've ever heard. And I always liked Imus. But Selma? Are people still burning crosses? Are Black folks still getting lynched? Give me a break, Don. [/quote]

Something to be said for that.

I must be too young and idealistic, but having a problem with a man for the color of his skin rather that his policy is kind of sad. No doubt people don't like Obama because of his race but kind of scary to think that you dislike his policy because subconsciously you are racist.

But I have to say at this point the media (left) and race hustlers push the race card too much

@Gets,

I'll respond to the relevant numbers without the quote function so PB won't have to bring out his Kindle :-)

1. Some racists do listen to reason. Some. Most don't.
2. I don't think it does prove otherwise, I think it only proves that both blacks and whites like those kinds of images. Not all, but many.
3. Obama's presidency has brought some racism to the surface, agree with that.
4. I have watched numerous videos by black conservatives and even those who express themselves without hyperbole etc attract not just trolls, but haters. Yes, sometimes they use attention grabbing titles, but to me that doesn't justify that sort of treatment.
5. Most of the sites that are up today that discuss that from 2008 are left-wing sites that don't like him anyways. They're partisan and look for mistakes for political points. I only found one conservative site that mentioned and it was critical of him too, so you are correct that nobody, at least for politically oriented websites, believes it was an honest mistake. However, just because nobody believes it doesn't make it true or false. I'm only saying that it's possible based on the fact that I've heard other people make that same mistake. There was a talk show host I used to listen to sometimes, and when he would start talking fast he sometimes used the wrong word. In fact he'd use the opposite word of what he meant, then he'd repeat the wrong word several times. It wasn't intentional, some people call it having a "brain fart." It happens and it COULD have happened to him. Or not.
6. This was just my opinion for the reasons stated. Your prediction might be correct.
7. I never heard of Gayle Quinnel.
8. I understand what you're saying, but there was more historical context to that. Beliefs don't happen in isolation and often they take historical twists and turns.
9. In the case of Gates's neighbor, it seems like the neighbor was helping him out. I don't believe he was discriminated against, but that he acted out and there was no need for it. Even if a cop accused me of breaking in to my own house I wouldn't do it. What I would do is calmly explain what I'm doing. I've been in situations where I've done exactly that. Calm is the way to go when dealing with the police. That charges were dropped doesn't mean much. It happens all the time.

In terms of Obama's privilege, I think we're using it in two different ways. To me he was relatively privileged because he wasn't poor. He may also have gotten a scholarship to Occidental or Columbia, would have to verify this. It is also a privilege to be able to attend the elite colleges he went to.

@F1, (no kindle)

1.angry people in general won't listen to reason..throw in racism and forget about it
2.
3.aryan brotherhood guy arrested 3/17/15 for plotting to hit the prez......releasing of this info was meant to take heat off of secret service obviously, but we have to assume it's a true story..alegedly there is secret audio of the troubled guy ranting about slurs in the white house
4.I won't defend internet losers or trolls. My own take on Blacks who are married to any political ideology is that if you're serious about promoting that viewpoint, use a better sales pitch.
F1, if you, say, were promoting vegan lifestyle..and you tried to convert me by talking about saving animals...I'd just walk away. If you approached me and talked about modern processed foods and meats and health risks and looking into alternatives, it would be a better pitch. There's a Spike Lee film "get on the bus" and Spike, of course has a Black conservative character playing a broad stereotype.I won't tell you how many real life self identified Black conservatives act and think very much like that fictional character....down to the T.
5.limbaugh's rise and semi legitimacy tells us all we need to know about the dumbing down of our culture.
i used to watch morton downey jr for laughs......in 2015 his once fringe style is what political tv and radio is now...screaming matches and silly stuff

6.funny story in the news TODAY about First Lady's mom and her first thoughts about her daughter marrying "biracial" Barack....so maybe there's more truth to what you were saying than I wanted to admit
7. She's the older woman who mistook biracial Barack for an Arab
8. I totally get your point now about root of anti catholicism here and after reading the story of the president in Selma..I get your original point about him reaching with his comments. like i said in another thread......black people aren't doing well financially under Obama....so he uses rhetoric and smoke and mirrors to distract us.W. Bush was a well educated guy with elite connecticut roots..he played up the good ol boy texan image as part of the smoke and mirrors
9. gates spent too much time in the ivory tower and forgot who he was...i certainly would not have reacted that way...

black guys who talk back to cops get shot...crazed gunmen of other backgrounds get taken in alive by cops like here
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/mesa/2015/03/18/mesa-shooting-near-light-rail/24961403/

or here story from Dec 2014

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...peacefully.html


A Tennessee woman is facing multiple charges including attempted first-degree murder for driving around shooting at people, leading a police chase, and pointing her gun at an officer.

Julia Shields, 45, drove around a Chattanooga neighborhood Friday just before 4pm dressed in body armor, randomly shooting into vehicles, WRCB reports.

Officers responded to a call from two victims who said Shields pulled up to their vehicle at a stop sign in a dark colored sedan and began firing into the car. No one was reportedly hurt.


Charges: Julia Shields, 45, (photographed) is facing multiple charges for driving around shooting at people, leading a police chase, and pointing her gun at an officer Friday afternoon


Fired: Officers responded to a call from two victims who said Shields pulled up to their vehicle at a stop sign in a dark colored sedan and began firing into the car

Soon, police received several calls about the woman firing into other vehicles or pointing a loaded gun at drivers, threatening to shoot, as she drove by, WCYB reports.

A witness told WRCB that Shields approached a vehicle with her window down, poised to shoot.

'She had black baseball cap on,' the witness said. 'Her hair was frizzy and pulled back. And I just saw, like, a silver 9 millimeter pointed outside.'



She allegedly fired into two vehicles, and pointed her gun threateningly at several others.

Officers found Shields in a church parking lot and when the patrol cars approached, Shields fled, leading the officers on a chase.

Shields pointed her gun at motorists as she passed them while leading the police chase, WDEF reports.

She led the officers down Highway 153 and Hixson Pike, according to WDEF.

The short chase ended at an intersection where Shields allegedly pointed her gun at an officer.

Shields was taken into custody without incident or injury and charged with three counts of attempted first-degree murder, seven counts of aggravated assault, possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony, felony evading arrest, and felony reckless endangerment, according to WRCB.

As of Saturday night, Shields was being held at the Hamilton County Jail, according to WCYB.

wow, and a black guy gets shot in the back 7 times, pulled over because of a taillight. HELLO.