Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Fuck Sal Avellino, it's a pity he avoided the general purge by that nut Casso. He ordered the Kubecka/Barstow murders who weren't even members of the underworld: one of the relatively few cases in USA when the mafia killed innocents (not even accidentally catching them in the crossfire, but with premeditation). And he never did enough prison time for it. 10 years is a joke for such a crime, and I'm not sure if he did them all.

Look, Dwalin. I like you a lot. You know that. And what I'm about to say is not to be taken as an insult, okay? Because I actually respect your consistency a great deal. But you are, by far, the biggest moralist I've ever encountered on any of these boards.

This was the Mafia during the '80s. The guys we're talking about were ALL killers, and the Kubecka/Barstow thing was heinous. I worked for Local 813 for 25 years and believe me, those murders scared the shit out of some people who were very scary in their own right. They shouldn't have happened. But a) you can't place the entire blame on Avellino, and b) you can't seriously mention him in the same breath as Anthony Casso.

Like I said, I respect your consistency. And I try to lead a moral life myself. But I'm not a moralist. Because unless you work in Government, or within the legal system, I honestly believe that's God's job. But the moralist in you won't allow you to differentiate a serial killer who easily killed over twenty people to a run of the mill mob guy. And I'll just never understand that kind of logic.

As far as his prison term, the government agreed to it. It was a plea bargain. We don't have Gulags in America tongue grin.

Pizzaboy, I respect you too and I am not questioning your point of view. But still, wasn't it Avellino's idea to whack Kubecka and Barstow while Casso gave the ok? Casso is a serial killer, but apart from Chiodo's sister and the wrong Nicky Guido, he killed other mobsters. That doesn't justify him in any way, he is also a coward who turned informant immediately after getting caught, but I thought that in the specific case of Kubecka/Barstow the one who is mostly to blame is the one who suggested to do it, meaning Avellino.

As for plea bargains, I personally think (without imposing my point of view to anybody) that THIS SPECIFIC case didn't warrant it. The ones involved should have got the maximum possible, imho.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."