I think you've misunderstood (and misquoted) me Camarel. I didn't say religion as a whole was to blame, the extremists are? Not sure which of the 5 paragraphs you've misunderstood.

You would surely agree that people of an Islamic faith could perhaps do more, than as is currently being done, to tackle isis etc and the extremist views they hold? If ANY person of ANY faith or belief witnessed what we are witnessing these days in the name of their specific religion/belief, they SPECIFICALLY would have a moral obligation to denounce it and fight it at every opportunity. Yes others could, but it doesn't hold the same weight. Im not convinced that is the case with Islam at the moment. You might think its actions are generally sufficient, and that would be where we disagree.

Ive also never once said the average atheist is more morally sound than any religious person, however (as I have said time and again) religion preaches IT is and threatens the morally inept will be punished - for ever. All without any evidence, which is one of my grievances. Again, your getting confused for some reason. People can have sound morals whatever their belief, and religious people are no better than anyone else, at all, ever, period. Not sure how clear I have to be before you get what Im saying....

In any case, Ive answered the points you raised and am reluctant to go down the rabbit hole of atheism/religion again, it'll just go round and round!

They probably would still place the blame elsewhere

No argument there. None at all .

ISIS in Brooklyn-

http://nypost.com/2015/02/25/3-nyc-planning-to-join-isis-taken-into-custody-in-fbi-raid/

There are a lot of Muslem strong holds in Brooklyn. But none near me that I know of.

lmao! hope you aren't looking at pornographic images and falling for false prophets... virgins... so what... you rick enough to marry them all and treat them equally? I guess ignorance is bliss for some people....

LOLL!!!! The idea of not eating pork logically speaking came from ancient times where they didn't cook the meat enough and it made people sick... The Muslims weren't the only religion who believed that, unless I'm mistaken the Jews felt pork wasn't "kosher" as well... it's all a matter of preference in this country, we can thank God/Jesus for that...

Be fair a lot of the highest paid profession's doctors/engineers/professors came from a middle eastern background and have PHD's in subjects such as math and science... if you can't give them any credit then you are being foolish...

Has nothing to do with people of middle eastern background. Steve Jobs biological father was Syrian. It's the fake founding of America narrative liberals try to create.

And you're right on the verge of mocking God/Jesus, when there are plenty of faithful on this board. So I'm an extremist, but it's okay for you to mock the faithful?

And you think I'm intimidating on a fucking message board? PhillyLoves. The Bronx doesn't.

Scratch that, and let me shut up. I have some personal family stuff going on right now, and I just don't have the patience right now for the double standard that's afforded to secular liberals who can mock my faith, yet no one makes a peep when I get called an extremist.

Have a nice night. And I mean that. But let's just put this one to sleep.

Phillyloves take the advice. Nobody wants to know what you are thinking. Leave it alone.

Can I say AMEN to that?

BTW, phillyloves, what I wrote about pork was called sarcasm. I'll remember to be more literal should I respond to any more of your posts.

Done : )
Alfonso's girl I'm sorry you were shot in the head with a be be gun for dating multiple guys and had to go to a street guy instead of calling the police and filing an actual police report and Pizzaboy I'm sorry an non Italian tried to pose as an Italian THEN tried to extort you and threaten your wife and kids Faithful1, you need to quit while your ahead everytime you open your mouth you sound even more stupid : )

If that was sarcasm, it needs a lot of work. If that was showing us how you can be a total asshole, you've succeeded.

LOLL!!!! The idea of not eating pork logically speaking came from ancient times where they didn't cook the meat enough and it made people sick... The Muslims weren't the only religion who believed that, unless I'm mistaken the Jews felt pork wasn't "kosher" as well... it's all a matter of preference in this country, we can thank God/Jesus for that... [/quote]

Jews and Muslims have a lot in common.

Both my oldest sons wives ex and current were so called Muslems. Both dig Christmas my newest Grand daughter is being raised catholic. My oldest grand daughter from his ex is a muslem in name only.

She ate plenty of macaroni pie recently it has ham in it. His current wife it's what we eat.

You had the chance to show us how you can act like a man and just keep your thoughts to yourself. I'm very disappointed you went this route. Enough. No more personal attacks on ppl. Leave it alone.

Exactly. Hope he wises up. There's no need for that type of behavior on these threads.

First of all, no one dared threaten me or tried to extort my wife or children. That you've only been here for four months and 35 posts, yet was able to twist that story around, tells me that you've paid too much attention to me for this to be your first time at this rodeo. You're clearly a lonely troll who's been here before. But something tells me that you're not long for this place. Until you change your ip again anyway. Have a nice night.

first of all I am not a man I am a woman and as an educated women I find pizzaboy's comment's on liberalism a complete step back in women's rights... like I said I am truly sorry you got shot in the head with a bebe gun and I meant that but Pizzaboy you have ABSOLUTLEY NO RIGHT whatsoever to OUT people's real names when you really have NO CLUE who is who... that makes YOU a stalker and a creep and a person who seems to have a vendetta against ANYBODY who doesn't kiss your feet and praise YOUR religion and the truth is I don't give a rat's ass if I get kicked off this board as pizzaboy's comment's and attitude's make me SICK now all of you CYBER muscle men and women please #uck off already... I am not a complete asshole but I'm certainly not going to let a bunch of nobodies mock a whole faith over the stupidity of a couple extremists. I doubt you would talk so freely face to face or at work IF you even have a job.

Well, since you have no qualms about being thrown out of here you won't mind this exit. It's pretty clear to me you are here with the sole purpose of trolling. We don't need, or want, that crap here.

In Islam we see Jesus and Moses as prophets, and a lot of other things are similarly like Judaism and Christianity.

Being Muslim doesn't mean we all follow the rules and enforce them. Im muslim and I drink alcohol and I have done other things that aren't allowed. Like Jews and Christians, muslims also make mistakes and tend to live a life were religion doesn't impact every aspect of our lifes.

I have to disagree with some points. First of all the Dark Ages weren't caused by a single factor. While Islamic conquest might have influenced European history at the time Islamic rulers didn't destroy European civilizations after conquering them. At that time Islam wasn't as bad as it is now. Minorities were granted a lot of freedom under Islamic rule. And Islam was until the invasion of the Turks and Mongols the centre of science during that time which was called the Dark Ages of Europe.

The fracturing of Europe into smaller states after the fall of the Roman Empire created much more instability in all of Europe than the Muslims who got as far as Spain. I think Feudalism and the Pope's intervention with the affairs of Christian countries halted any progress for Europe. Look at all the wars that tore Europe apart during the Dark Ages I don't think Muslims were involved. The only stable part of Europe was the east with Hungary, Poland and Russian states, but they fell under the mongols whom actually did massacre and destroy anything on their way.

And with the trade being blocked was more of a political thing done by the Turks. After Constantinople(1453) fell to the Turks they started taxing a lot of the trade and making it impossible for Europeans to benefit from the east. That's also why Columbus tried to find for an easier route to the East Indies.
And the time when Europe's middle ages ended hadn't anything to do with the Emirate of Granada, Which was a small piece of the south of Spain in that time. It was more thanks to the European enlightenment/Renaissance that started of in Italy and spread to the rest of Europe.

Didn't say that the so-called Dark Ages were caused by a single factor, but there was a primary factor and that was the jihadist invasions known as the Islamic conquests. I suggest you look over these works since they go into more detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Mohammed-Charlemag...1742&sr=1-8

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Warriors-Demise-Classical-Civilization/dp/0980994896

You can also read this lengthy article: http://uhrao.blogspot.com/2013/02/islam-caused-dark-ages.html

As for the treatment of minorities, are you familiar with treatment of dhimmis under Islam? You can examine these texts for more: http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Dhimmitude-Where-Civilizations-Collide/dp/1611472369. The treatment of minorities under Islam was always in flux depending on the location and who was in charge. Jews may have been treated better than the Christian and pagan populations of Europe, but there were intermittent persecutions against them too, just as there were persecutions against Christians.

As for trade, read what happened to the papyrus supply being cut down and how it affected literacy in Europe. This was noted by historian Henri Pirenne in the 1930s.

As for 1453 and later, that is hundreds of years after the events I'm discussing, so it's not relevant here.

Here is the Islamic State destroying ancient statutes from the Assyrian Empire of the Bible. This comes after they burned about 8000 rare books and documents from the public library in Mosul.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-31647484

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-burns-8000-rare-books-030900856.html

Let's not forget their most recent atrocity of murdering 15 Syrian Christians and beheading a woman:

http://www.ansamed.info/ansamed/en/news/...1f0bed70ff.html

if isis is behind that ebola shit then napalm their whole network

including the negros

Islamists hack to death a Bangladeshi blogger who was a secular humanist. His wife was also hacked but so far has survived.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla...adesh#.ka1oakBx

http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2015/02/26/assailants-hack-to-death-writer-avijit-roy-wife-injured

Question for the Americans, how would a Republican President have handled ISIS? For instance if Romney had got in? Its clear that air strikes is part of destroying ISIS but not enough. We need a coalition of ground troops. I think Iraq could be done quite quickly, and generally this time we would have support of the Iraqi public. However Syria is a minefield. Would we also be fighting Jabhat Al-Nusra and other Islamist rebels? Would Assad's troops engage us?

I think Romney would have been more forceful in getting the 2011 status of forces agreement. Don't know how or if he would have succeeded, but he said in the debates that he would have kept more troops that what Obama offered, maybe around 30K. Here is National Review's take: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380508/no-us-troops-didnt-have-leave-iraq-patrick-brennan.

We know that ISIS started invading Iraq shortly after the American troops left, so they were clearly a deterrent.

Regarding Syria, both Obama and Romney were for arming the rebels, but I think it would have been better to have turned Assad into an ally. That's not a popular position, but there's a lot more religious freedom under Assad than under ISIS. Assad's army was well-organized, but turned out to be no match for ISIS plus the rebels. Too thinned out, plus it seems that ISIS is more highly motivated and more sociopathic in its tactics since it is willing to murder anyone. Even Assad's army wouldn't go that far, plus his army includes Christians from the large Assyrian population. So that's my take on it.

what is the American public's view on handling ISIS? I agree with MCain on this, he is all for military action.

Wow I didn't know about the fact that Islam cut of trade with the west, I wasnt familiar with this thanks for showing it.
But I highly doubt that was as big of a problem as the other bigger problems.
Look at the fall of the Western Roman empire and the barbarians that invaded the north of Europe and destroyed any traces of civilization I think that setback Europe worse than the end of trade with the Mediterranean.
Then look at what Christianity did to Europe. I think that the Church hindered Western development the most. They were intervening with the affairs of most European rulers and they caused a lot of in fighting between the Europeans.
The west lost most of its technological advances by the rise of barbarians. And then when you look at science I think the Arabs at the time did very good by preserving Roman and Greek technology that was lost with these invasions, and they even made significant improvements themselves.

I know about the Dhimmi's and I actually taught it was a good thing, If you look at the conditions of that time many people were slaughtered in the rest of the world, or forced to convert to a different religion. The Jizra and the use of Dhimmi's prevented any of this. And I agree that ofcourse the treatment of minorities differed from leader to leader, but with the standards of that time I think it was better than for example the Spanish inquisition or other ways of dealing with religious minorities(not implying Muslims were saints or anything).

And with the info you showed me I can agree with you that Islam was a factor hindering the development of Europe in that time.