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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#830282
02/25/15 06:09 AM
02/25/15 06:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 868
fergie
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 868
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I think you've misunderstood (and misquoted) me Camarel. I didn't say religion as a whole was to blame, the extremists are? Not sure which of the 5 paragraphs you've misunderstood.
You would surely agree that people of an Islamic faith could perhaps do more, than as is currently being done, to tackle isis etc and the extremist views they hold? If ANY person of ANY faith or belief witnessed what we are witnessing these days in the name of their specific religion/belief, they SPECIFICALLY would have a moral obligation to denounce it and fight it at every opportunity. Yes others could, but it doesn't hold the same weight. Im not convinced that is the case with Islam at the moment. You might think its actions are generally sufficient, and that would be where we disagree.
Ive also never once said the average atheist is more morally sound than any religious person, however (as I have said time and again) religion preaches IT is and threatens the morally inept will be punished - for ever. All without any evidence, which is one of my grievances. Again, your getting confused for some reason. People can have sound morals whatever their belief, and religious people are no better than anyone else, at all, ever, period. Not sure how clear I have to be before you get what Im saying....
In any case, Ive answered the points you raised and am reluctant to go down the rabbit hole of atheism/religion again, it'll just go round and round!
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: thedudeabides87]
#830336
02/25/15 12:22 PM
02/25/15 12:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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They probably would still place the blame elsewhere No argument there. None at all .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Footreads]
#830347
02/25/15 02:25 PM
02/25/15 02:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
phillyloves
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
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Do you know what is advertise right on this site right under this thread. It is Muslima.com. International Muslim matramonial site. What is that about are they all virgins the girls pictures on the site are pretty nice. lmao! hope you aren't looking at pornographic images and falling for false prophets... virgins... so what... you rick enough to marry them all and treat them equally? I guess ignorance is bliss for some people....
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Faithful1]
#830352
02/25/15 02:53 PM
02/25/15 02:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
phillyloves
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
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PB: I don't think a nuclear attack is where we want to go because then we'd be killing too many of the people we're trying to save. But we need to do a hell of a lot more than what we're doing now. I'm sure the military has better solutions, but I'm also sure that it's hamstrung by Obama and his administration of fools.
PL: Not economically beneficial until they start mounting attacks here on a large scale. We've already seen lone-wolf radical Muslims who follow ISIS commit acts of terrorism here (which Obama calls "work place violence"), but imagine when things get serious. Obama has underestimated them every time. He called them the "JV team" then said they're only limited to Syria and Iraq. We now know they're in Libya too and in Afghanistan, plus other groups like Boku Haram has pledged allegiance to them. They're even in the Philippines. Plus, with this open borders program that Obama is doing, what is to prevent them from entering that way? Border Patrol agents already found a Muslim prayer mat left at the border. This group is a danger to the world and if we don't take them seriously then we'd better start learning Arabic and quit eating pork. LOLL!!!! The idea of not eating pork logically speaking came from ancient times where they didn't cook the meat enough and it made people sick... The Muslims weren't the only religion who believed that, unless I'm mistaken the Jews felt pork wasn't "kosher" as well... it's all a matter of preference in this country, we can thank God/Jesus for that...
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Binnie_Coll]
#830353
02/25/15 02:59 PM
02/25/15 02:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
phillyloves
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
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A couple of days ago President Obama spoke at a summit addressing muslim extremism and he made the following comment:
“Here in America,” Obama stated, “Islam has been woven into the fabric of our country since its founding.”
Is he rewriting history just to be conciliatory or what? I cannot recall in my lifetime islam being woven in our society, and ive been around a while [im 72] what in the world is this guy talking about? Be fair a lot of the highest paid profession's doctors/engineers/professors came from a middle eastern background and have PHD's in subjects such as math and science... if you can't give them any credit then you are being foolish...
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: phillyloves]
#830357
02/25/15 03:23 PM
02/25/15 03:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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A couple of days ago President Obama spoke at a summit addressing muslim extremism and he made the following comment:
“Here in America,” Obama stated, “Islam has been woven into the fabric of our country since its founding.”
Is he rewriting history just to be conciliatory or what? I cannot recall in my lifetime islam being woven in our society, and ive been around a while [im 72] what in the world is this guy talking about? Be fair a lot of the highest paid profession's doctors/engineers/professors came from a middle eastern background and have PHD's in subjects such as math and science... if you can't give them any credit then you are being foolish... Has nothing to do with people of middle eastern background. Steve Jobs biological father was Syrian. It's the fake founding of America narrative liberals try to create.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: phillyloves]
#830382
02/25/15 04:25 PM
02/25/15 04:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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it's all a matter of preference in this country, we can thank God/Jesus for that... And you're right on the verge of mocking God/Jesus, when there are plenty of faithful on this board. So I'm an extremist, but it's okay for you to mock the faithful? And you think I'm intimidating on a fucking message board? PhillyLoves. The Bronx doesn't. Scratch that, and let me shut up. I have some personal family stuff going on right now, and I just don't have the patience right now for the double standard that's afforded to secular liberals who can mock my faith, yet no one makes a peep when I get called an extremist. Have a nice night. And I mean that. But let's just put this one to sleep.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#830430
02/25/15 08:45 PM
02/25/15 08:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
phillyloves
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 36
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Done : ) Alfonso's girl I'm sorry you were shot in the head with a be be gun for dating multiple guys and had to go to a street guy instead of calling the police and filing an actual police report and Pizzaboy I'm sorry an non Italian tried to pose as an Italian THEN tried to extort you and threaten your wife and kids Faithful1, you need to quit while your ahead everytime you open your mouth you sound even more stupid : )
Last edited by phillyloves; 02/25/15 08:54 PM.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: phillyloves]
#830440
02/25/15 11:11 PM
02/25/15 11:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Done : ) Alfonso's girl I'm sorry you were shot in the head with a be be gun for dating multiple guys and had to go to a street guy instead of calling the police and filing an actual police report and Pizzaboy I'm sorry an non Italian tried to pose as an Italian THEN tried to extort you and threaten your wife and kids Faithful1, you need to quit while your ahead everytime you open your mouth you sound even more stupid : ) First of all, no one dared threaten me or tried to extort my wife or children. That you've only been here for four months and 35 posts, yet was able to twist that story around, tells me that you've paid too much attention to me for this to be your first time at this rodeo. You're clearly a lonely troll who's been here before. But something tells me that you're not long for this place. Until you change your ip again anyway. Have a nice night.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: phillyloves]
#830448
02/26/15 03:33 AM
02/26/15 03:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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the truth is I don't give a rat's ass if I get kicked off this board as pizzaboy's comment's and attitude's make me SICK now all of you CYBER muscle men and women please #uck off already... I am not a complete asshole but I'm certainly not going to let a bunch of nobodies mock a whole faith over the stupidity of a couple extremists. Well, since you have no qualms about being thrown out of here you won't mind this exit. It's pretty clear to me you are here with the sole purpose of trolling. We don't need, or want, that crap here.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Footreads]
#830555
02/26/15 04:33 PM
02/26/15 04:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
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Jews and Muslims have a lot in common.
Both my oldest sons wives ex and current were so called Muslems. Both dig Christmas my newest Grand daughter is being raised catholic. My oldest grand daughter from his ex is a muslem in name only.
She ate plenty of macaroni pie recently it has ham in it. His current wife it's what we eat.
In Islam we see Jesus and Moses as prophets, and a lot of other things are similarly like Judaism and Christianity. Being Muslim doesn't mean we all follow the rules and enforce them. Im muslim and I drink alcohol and I have done other things that aren't allowed. Like Jews and Christians, muslims also make mistakes and tend to live a life were religion doesn't impact every aspect of our lifes.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Faithful1]
#830559
02/26/15 04:45 PM
02/26/15 04:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
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Foot,
I agree with you guys that are calling BS on Obama's comment about Islam and the fabric of the country but what some of the interviews alluded to was Muslims and Jews mentioned specifically when some of the founding fathers were discussing religious freedom in the colonies.
I mean it could be reaching even further back and talking about how the areas where Islam sprung up from and their cultural influences were responsible for taking Europe out of the "dark ages" and tracing some of the intellectual ideas about enlightenment that Jefferson and company studied to that.
Not sure, Foot. Interestingly there are a number of historians who believe that the so-called Dark Ages (term isn't really used anymore) were in fact CAUSED by the Muslims who invaded Europe in the 8th century and thereafter and who blocked off trade with China, India and other countries. The end of Europe's Middle Age seems to coincide to when Spain kicked out the Emirate of Granada. But the Founding Fathers barely mention Islam at all, so if Obama was thinking that it shows his historical ignorance. I have to disagree with some points. First of all the Dark Ages weren't caused by a single factor. While Islamic conquest might have influenced European history at the time Islamic rulers didn't destroy European civilizations after conquering them. At that time Islam wasn't as bad as it is now. Minorities were granted a lot of freedom under Islamic rule. And Islam was until the invasion of the Turks and Mongols the centre of science during that time which was called the Dark Ages of Europe. The fracturing of Europe into smaller states after the fall of the Roman Empire created much more instability in all of Europe than the Muslims who got as far as Spain. I think Feudalism and the Pope's intervention with the affairs of Christian countries halted any progress for Europe. Look at all the wars that tore Europe apart during the Dark Ages I don't think Muslims were involved. The only stable part of Europe was the east with Hungary, Poland and Russian states, but they fell under the mongols whom actually did massacre and destroy anything on their way. And with the trade being blocked was more of a political thing done by the Turks. After Constantinople(1453) fell to the Turks they started taxing a lot of the trade and making it impossible for Europeans to benefit from the east. That's also why Columbus tried to find for an easier route to the East Indies. And the time when Europe's middle ages ended hadn't anything to do with the Emirate of Granada, Which was a small piece of the south of Spain in that time. It was more thanks to the European enlightenment/Renaissance that started of in Italy and spread to the rest of Europe.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#830603
02/26/15 07:59 PM
02/26/15 07:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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Didn't say that the so-called Dark Ages were caused by a single factor, but there was a primary factor and that was the jihadist invasions known as the Islamic conquests. I suggest you look over these works since they go into more detail: http://www.amazon.com/Mohammed-Charlemag...1742&sr=1-8http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Warriors-Demise-Classical-Civilization/dp/0980994896You can also read this lengthy article: http://uhrao.blogspot.com/2013/02/islam-caused-dark-ages.htmlAs for the treatment of minorities, are you familiar with treatment of dhimmis under Islam? You can examine these texts for more: http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Dhimmitude-Where-Civilizations-Collide/dp/1611472369. The treatment of minorities under Islam was always in flux depending on the location and who was in charge. Jews may have been treated better than the Christian and pagan populations of Europe, but there were intermittent persecutions against them too, just as there were persecutions against Christians. As for trade, read what happened to the papyrus supply being cut down and how it affected literacy in Europe. This was noted by historian Henri Pirenne in the 1930s. As for 1453 and later, that is hundreds of years after the events I'm discussing, so it's not relevant here.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: NickyScarfo]
#830641
02/27/15 02:14 AM
02/27/15 02:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841 OC, CA
Faithful1
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
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I think Romney would have been more forceful in getting the 2011 status of forces agreement. Don't know how or if he would have succeeded, but he said in the debates that he would have kept more troops that what Obama offered, maybe around 30K. Here is National Review's take: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/380508/no-us-troops-didnt-have-leave-iraq-patrick-brennan.We know that ISIS started invading Iraq shortly after the American troops left, so they were clearly a deterrent. Regarding Syria, both Obama and Romney were for arming the rebels, but I think it would have been better to have turned Assad into an ally. That's not a popular position, but there's a lot more religious freedom under Assad than under ISIS. Assad's army was well-organized, but turned out to be no match for ISIS plus the rebels. Too thinned out, plus it seems that ISIS is more highly motivated and more sociopathic in its tactics since it is willing to murder anyone. Even Assad's army wouldn't go that far, plus his army includes Christians from the large Assyrian population. So that's my take on it.
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Re: ISIS Must be Destroyed By the West
[Re: Faithful1]
#830657
02/27/15 04:11 AM
02/27/15 04:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
yigido
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 429
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Wow I didn't know about the fact that Islam cut of trade with the west, I wasnt familiar with this thanks for showing it. But I highly doubt that was as big of a problem as the other bigger problems. Look at the fall of the Western Roman empire and the barbarians that invaded the north of Europe and destroyed any traces of civilization I think that setback Europe worse than the end of trade with the Mediterranean. Then look at what Christianity did to Europe. I think that the Church hindered Western development the most. They were intervening with the affairs of most European rulers and they caused a lot of in fighting between the Europeans. The west lost most of its technological advances by the rise of barbarians. And then when you look at science I think the Arabs at the time did very good by preserving Roman and Greek technology that was lost with these invasions, and they even made significant improvements themselves. I know about the Dhimmi's and I actually taught it was a good thing, If you look at the conditions of that time many people were slaughtered in the rest of the world, or forced to convert to a different religion. The Jizra and the use of Dhimmi's prevented any of this. And I agree that ofcourse the treatment of minorities differed from leader to leader, but with the standards of that time I think it was better than for example the Spanish inquisition or other ways of dealing with religious minorities(not implying Muslims were saints or anything). And with the info you showed me I can agree with you that Islam was a factor hindering the development of Europe in that time.
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