Hi Gang,

So I finished reading Deal With the Devil by Peter Lance. What a difficult book to read. Very annotated and sourced, but full of run on sentences from front to back. One paragraph could contain only 2 long sentences in it, no exaggeration.

Peter Lance's theory about the 3rd Colombo war boils down to the following:

The FBI via Lin DeVecchio instigated the Colombo war by feeding Greg Scarpa Sr. false information. The aim was to have Greg Scarpa Sr. rise to the top of the Colombo family so that the FBI would have a top echelon informant sitting on the Commission.

I find that a bit unrealistic and fanciful, for this reason...

Scarpa did not have the ability to create two factions. It was Little Vic [Orena] who had that power, by polling his captains to vote for a new boss.

The book skips over the glaring fact that no matter who attacked who first, or fired the first shot, it was Orena who was most likely responsible for ordering the Consigliere to poll the capos to choose sides.

The first Consigliere to do so at Orena's order was Angelina, and he was reportedly whacked for it on the orders of Carmine Persico. Most likely, Orena denied ordering Angelina to do the poll and dodged Carmine's wrath.

The second Consigliere was then ordered to poll the capos again. This Consigliere's name was Carmine Sessa. He refused to and instead turned on Little Vic in a failed hit/ambush.

Peter Lance's position is that Carmine Sessa only attacked Little Vic because he was misled by Greg Scarpa. That attack was supposedly the first shot fired in the 3rd Colombo War. But what Peter Lance avoids is the question of how did the Colombos separate into two factions in the first place. Scarpa had nothing to do with that, and last time I checked, if an acting Boss starts polling capos to see if they will vote against the sitting boss, that is grounds for being whacked.

Peter Lance's book bends over backwards to put Little Vic Orena into a good light. The book's express aim is to win him a new trial. Orena's sons contribute to the book in the form of interviews and/or quotes. But I think that Peter Lance went too far in exempting Little Vic Orena from responsibility for the genesis of the 3rd Colombo war as the price paid for getting Orena's sons to contribute to this sensational book. If the book made Orena look bad, why would his son's contribute?

No I don't think Orena came out of the 3rd Colombo war smelling like daisies, and Greg Scarpa was, until the end, a vassal and slave of the Persico Mafia family.

If Scarpa's FBI handler played a role in instigating that conflict, the conflict was already there when Orena polled the captains. Before it became a hot war, it was already a cold one.

If anything, Scarpa's FBI handler was a double agent...an FBI agent, pretending to be a corrupt FBI agent, whose true goal was to help Scarpa whack as many made men as possible, and then have the rest arrested.

Alfa you write like a pro or you got some good computer program. I liked the book. I thought carmine sessa and wild bill killed Angelina. Read that's really weird cause the consig is usually really well liked threw out the FAM. In that was the first time in the NYC families. Also read it was 3 groups Vic's guys pericos and long island guys played the fence.

Thanks pmac. I'll share a secret. The browser I use is Firefox. It has a built in spell check. Firefox will help you get the spelling right, but it won't help you arrange your sentences or choose what words to use. So the rest is all me.

The 3rd faction is not mentioned in Peter Lance's book, at all.

And you're right about the Angelina hit also.

He writes like a pro because he can formulate sentences properly? Yeah, ok. His writing is good sure but you are setting the standard low if you are considering grammar and sentencing a valid justification for good writing.

Welp somebody's a real dick.

Every time you comment it's always negative. How many years of being stuffed in a locker does it take to be a [BadWord].

Believe it or not guys, one of the reasons I visit the Gangster BB is because I enjoy the writing styles of all the posters. Everyone writes in a unique way. Some posters make you feel like you are involved in a sit down. And let's face it, you have to enjoy the act of both reading and writing to even be here.

That said...

The 3rd Colombo war supposedly began with the failed attack on Little Vic Orena. But Greg Scarpa Sr. reported to his government handlers that the first shot fired was the whacking of Gioachino Leale. Leale reported to Pasquale Amato. Peter Lance's elaborate theory is that Leale and Scarpa Sr. whacked Tommy Ocera. Scarpa Sr. then covers up the murder by killing Leale and framing Little Vic Orena. Little Vic Orena then goes from being a loyal acting Boss, to a hated persona non grata looking as if he was staging a coup against Carmine Persico himself. The Leale killing is supposedly what caused the two factions to begin to war. But Lance still skips around how you get two factions in the first place. Acting Bosses have no business polling captains and creating "factions". That's a whackable offense. Therefore, does it really matter who fired the first shot or even if it was some kind of elaborate false flag attack? Little Vic started it. Not Scarpa, and not even DeVecchio.

Both the theory presented in this post, and the one in the original post came from the same book....believe it or not.

You may not agree with his entire theory, but I think parts of it are definitely plausible.

Alfa this is were it gets weird was scarpa really not a capo in the late 80tys after his son who I think was one gets locked up. Sessa was sponcerd by Greg in 88 becomes consig 3 yrs later. Why would it be so hard to kill a soldier. Scarpa I think was lying to the feds he's wasn't a capo. He had a crew. But also wasn't it know threw out the family he had aids and was dying. Even in the 80tys. Jack leachle comes up in little Al's book says he got rid of mike paps body for them. With the aloi brothers. O scarpa says scarpetti was his capo and blames everything on him in the 80tys.

Its so weird cause with all the guys who did hits back then testified against tommy shots and its all fucked. Some guy on stand big dino did hits that the Russo cousins are still doing life for. That lady Angela clemente. She should have already wrote a book. She in the whitey. Bulger doc on net flick posters check it

Wow, now that you say it, if Greg was a Capo, he should have had made men answering to him. We got charts on this site. The Wimpy Boys crew was either made or they were wanna bes. What you say seems to be implying that the Wimpy Boys were wanna bes.

Lance's book goes on the assumption from cover to cover that Greg Sr was a captain. Unbelievable.

I have a hard time believing Scarpa wasn't a Captain.

Lance assumes Scarpa was a captain based on the fact that early communiques (approx 1962) to the FBI listed him as such.

The assumption is also based on the intimate relationship Scarpa had with Joe Colombo. That's a valid assumption according to the logic that a soldier wouldn't be able to directly associate with a Boss.

pmac and funk, I know that Scarpa's status as a captain or soldier doesn't really have much bearing in discussing the origins of a conflict such as the 3rd Colombo war, but it is an interesting question and maybe it might provide a clue.

According to "Deal" by Lance, Scarpa answered to Anthony Scarpati aka "Scappy" or "Scrappy".

That same book alleges that Scarpa used Scappy as a front boss (Captain).

The book quotes the Orena brothers (sons of Little Vic) as claiming that Scarpa would abuse Scarpati on a regular basis. That is the only circumstantial proof given that Greg Scarpa Sr just had to be the real Capo. And it's given by two biased interviewees who are the sons of the mobster the book is written in support of, two interviewees that are out to blame Scarpa for everything and exonerate their dad. But when the book mentions that Scarpa was informing on Scappy, it contradicts itself.

Why would a boss inform on his front boss?

That doesn't make much sense to me.

The one thing that is confirmed is that Scarpa was ratting out Scarpati. For sure. How was that productive from Scarpa's standpoint as "the real Capo"? I don't understand it. Help me out there somebody.

The book never mentions that Anthony Scarpati once functioned as an acting Boss, not acting Capo, but acting Boss, of the Colombos. Scarpa was never an acting Boss of the Colombo family.

If Anthony Scarpati was just a figurehead of Scarpa, then when he was serving as acting Boss, Scarpa was really running the family. I find that hard to believe.

The possible members of the Wimpy Boys Crew were...

Carmine Sessa
Robert Zambardi aka Bobby Zam
Dominic Cataldo
Joseph Figueroa
Gus Farace
Greg Scarpa Jr.
John Saponaro
Joseph Saponaro
Dominic Somma
Joey Ambrosino
Mario Parlagreco
Billy Meli
Kevin Granato
Nicky DeCarlo
Cosmo Catanzana

If Scarpa Sr. was truly a Capo, officially, then maybe most of those crew members should be made men, yes?

Doesn't Peter Lance claim in the book that not only Orena, but Amato as well is innocent? But how is that possible if there is a tape where Bonfiglio complains about not being rewarded by Amato for helping to hide Ocera's body? I don't know about Orena, but Amato looks guilty to me, and would he have acted without asking Orena's approval?