Originally Posted By: yigido
Originally Posted By: TheKillingJoke
@Yigido

Where I live there's a large Turkish community. Today the Turkish mob in the Netherlands and Belgium is not as visible as it seemed to be 20 years ago. There still is Turkish organized crime of course, only quite low-key and not on the same large scale it used to be. One thing confuses me however. Often you hear people claim that the Grey Wolves is the same as the ethnic Turkish mob. Now I have heard before that there are big Turkish gangsters that have connections to the Grey Wolves. But I don't think that the Grey Wolves are really as such the "Turkish mafia".

Over here most of them are ethnic Turks, the majority from the Black Sea and Central Anatolia regions. In London for instance and some parts of the Netherlands such as The Hague and Rotterdam a large amount of the "Turkish" community seem to be actually Kurdish. And as some claim all ethnic Turkish gangsters are part of the Grey Wolves, there are also people who claim that all ethnic Kurdish gangsters from Turkey are part of the PKK. But I think that might be bullshit as well.

The grey wolves are a political organization and just as you said they are connected to gangsters. They aren't the turkish mob.

In london and UK in general, most of the Turks come from cyprus 300.000 I think out of the 500.000 with the rest of them being kurds. In the Netherlands its The Hague as you said having the majority of Kurds.

And the PKK grey wolves thing is really bullshit. My father told me a story that when he was in his early 20s he was a member of the grey wolves, not the mob. He said that they didn't get violent with the PKK afiliated groups, but they weren't friendly with each other. Every group wether PKK or grey wolves has a local boss in every city and my dads boss was one of the rough guys that hated Kurds to the gut. One day my father was clubbing and saw his boss drinking with the boss of the PKK afiliated group in our town lol. Point is that these political groups are a lie, the upper echelons of these organizations are very tight with each other.

Mostly in the Netherlands we come from the central and northern parts as you said. With some exceptions from the east or west. In Turkey the North is more affiliated with OC and the central regions where I am from is very safe. But in Europe most immigrants are from the Central parts of Turkey and a lot of them did choose the life, because of circumstances.

And btw I think they know how to keep a low profile, sure they aren't as active as before but they do great job in not being on the news for every little thing that happens like with the Moroccans or Dutch gangsters from Amsterdam. And I dunno but Dutch journalism is weak when it comes to Turkish OC. There was this gangster from my neighborhood that got killed. And they couldn't write shit about him. A lot of people knew that he did time in the UK for selling heroin to the IRA. The man was involved with Turkish pimps from Germany. There are more cases like this when they can't write shit about someone that has done some heavy things. They either don't research this at all, or they aren't interested in Turkish OC.


Where I live Italians and Turks are by far the most numerous non-indigenous groups, followed by Moroccans, Greeks and then Albanians. I think all the Turks I know are from the North of the Central regions, but when you go to the West of Belgium there also is a fairly large Turkish community with most of the people from that community being from the Aegean region such as Izmir and Emirdag. Few Kurds over here, but you do get some small pockets of them of course. I went to school with a few of them, one actually had family in The Hague. Over there he had an uncle who was on the run for some crime-related activities. But as there aren't too many Kurds over here a lot of people just think they're Turks. Both people are easy to distinguish however. Kurds in general look very Middle Eastern, very close to Iranians and Afghans. Turks on the other hand are quite a diverse bunch. I know some that look a bit asiatic, some that look like other Southern Europeans and also quite a few that look almost nordic. I have for instance a Turkish friend who has ginger hair and I also have met a few blonde ones.

In general organized crime reports in Belgium and the Netherlands just plain suck ass. I have yet to read an objective local report on the subject. The OC journalists we have always get caught up in hypes, which in the Netherlands is now evident with their reports on the "Mocro-maffia". In Belgium we had something similar years ago with the Albanians and later on very briefly with Chechen criminals active in Antwerp. They always seem to make a mountain out of a molehill.