Things to consider:

Gotti Jr
•He was a shit negociator who lost the ear of the Genovese family
•When the FBI raided his house he had a list of made men in his own family and in other families

Allie Boy
•Was caught speeding in his boat and when stopped the coast guard found a shotgun and handgun onboard


In my opinion Gotti Jr was more of an idiot, at least Allie boy got into college and waited as long as he could before ascending to the Colombo family leadership even if he only lasted a year at least he kept the family in good face and held some respect from the troops

think I read he tried to throw them overboard. im probably wrong. seems like allie boy was more into the life. he did 10yrs about to get out they hit him with all the Colombo war shit he wins gets rite back into the life orders wild bills murder been in jail 15 yrs later. that guy put in half his life hes not 60ty yet. like father like son. remebr reading some guys wire the persico the most vicious and never forget a slite. think it was in mob on wall street a great book. allie had his cousins in on all them scams.

U forgot to mention john Jr also had several hundred grand in a cracked safe, which looked dodgy but was supposedly his wedding money

It was not lil Allie Boys yacht it was a friend and it was not his gun. Wrong place wrong time.

Who is dying in prison?

Actually, maybe except for that incident I haven't heard anything else about Little Allie boy being an imbecile.. he was real "Cosa Nostra" from what I've seen, even in these boards... so Gotti takes the prize here.

EDIT: I mean if we're judging them as effective or efficient (acting) bosses, of course. If not, then Gotti did get out from the life and is doing much better in life.

Hard to top Gotti in the dumbs department. I heard that they sent him out to blow up a car, and he burned his lips on the tailpipe.

Gotti jr was a bad mobster, but I actually came away impressed by his interviews. He's not a dumb guy- he beat the feds repeatedly and seems to do ok out of the life.

Yeah, like any of these kids would call either of them dumb to their faces. Allie Boy has fucking death in his eyes, and Junior was built like a brick shithouse and could handle himself just fine back in the '80s and '90s.

Steroids and "book stupid"? Sure. But go tell him that. He's easy to find. Half of you stalkers have probably Google earthed/mapped his place in Oyster Bay a hundred times anyway. He opens his own door and gets his own mail and everything. Go ahead, ask him .

As far as Allie Boy, he's doing life. So as futile as I think this question is, the answer is as as plain as day. But again, Allie could give you a stroke just by looking at you, so I wouldn't even ask him that question through seven inches of tempered glass .

And it's good to see you posting again, Philip_Lombardo .

Exactly.

Junior supposedly killed a guy in a street fight when he was younger, right? It got covered up or something.

Junior WAS a very dangerous kid, like him or not. Don't let anyone bullshit you on that one.

I don't think he was dumb in the least bit, I would call it immaturity, trying to live up to his fathers approval. Let's face it, John Gotti Sr and Carmine Persico were two different types of wiseguys, especially bosses. Allie Boy & John Jr had two different upbringings.

In this day in age, who in the world would actually be stupid or blind enough to think there's a future in the mafia. Junior is older and a friend of mine in Long Island knows him and his wife through one of their children. I was told that he had a wonderful relationship with his kids and truly is a good dad. I have no reason not take his word for it. He said that Junior is cordial and polite to the other parents...but mostly stays with the wife at events and sports. In my book...changing his life for his family beats prison any day of the week.

Fact of the matter is that when Gotti was indicted and held without bail, Junior became his dad's conduit in his late 20's and early 30's. Plus, Junior didn't grow up like his dad, he lived in Howard Beach...more shielded from the life than his dad was. He probably looked up to most of these guys and now he's giving them orders. Bound to make mistakes along the way, especially with the immaturity aspect of it.

A lot of old timers will say "you get old too fast and wise too late." Junior though has skeletons...still...and he's got to live with that looming over him while any person who is still alive that knows the truth could come forward anytime and finger him for something...how many times he been through it already?

Well put, Oscar.

Unless you give each each an IQ test, there is no answer. I could tell you Gotti Jr. had more common sense. Look where he's living and look at Allie Boy. Didn't Allie get fingered by Chris Van Ludwigsen?

Yes Chris Paciello was at the JCB Lounge down in Miami Florida and violated his super-vised release

Gotti JR comes across as educated and was quite articulate during his interview. He didnt try and act like a tough guy and gave no excuses, he actually came across as likable in a way. Its obvious he is much more mature now. I have nothing against the guy at all. He also seems to be a very good father.

I never met him, but my friend has lived about a 1/2 mile away from him for over 15 years. They've all been chaperones and chauffeurs for their kids and my buddy told me that the subject never came up and that he never mentions his father...he's especially tight with his girl. When I hear something like that from a guy who I trust implicitly and have known for 25 years, it's nice to see somebody who almost paid with his life in prison choose to walk away and focus on what's really important in life.

Dago is a midwest term for italians, are you a Clev guy

difference is allie boy knew C.N. J.R. knew street corner gang stuff. stopped listening to guys who knew the life .. got greedy , thought he was smarter, thought his last name made him absolute power and respected. he got in the batters box, closed his eyes and started swinging..instead of keeping his eye on the ball and taking a few and learning how to hit. his greed sent him to the can..never supposed to get pinched in the scores case.

Well, that's true. And you know how highly I regard Tore, and not just because of his Pop. But Greg tried to undermine Tore there because he put Craig in Junior's ear, and he sent them all to prison as a result.

boy that is true, tore hates JR..and for good reason..JR screwed up with some guys during the scores case. he was furious with everyone one pinched, he should have taken it out on himself. greed and the newly found greg deplama and his big mouth doomed JR.. i hope tore stays away and hits them straight and far.naples or the bronx plus millions.Hmmm what would i take.

worst offense was he kept the lists of guys that got made in other families..he knew he was smothered in agents..hide that stuff with someone out of the life..not in a place you stay at everyday. allie did the same thing got caught with shylock lists

You don't know the half of it (of course you do, that's just an expression ).

Greg had Willie believing that he had all the strength of a made guy, which was obviously bullshit. And I don't condone that he flipped, but you know as well as I do that sometimes these guys create their own rats.

That money in Willie's basement was mostly Greg's, and as soon as the Scores pinch came down Greg put Craig in Junior's ear to distance himself from Willie. A kid that had been as loyal as a dog for ten years, yet Greg started putting the word out that Willie was dealing junk and steroids and holding out because it was too much cash for him to have.

Greg was never getting Willie his button (he wasn't even Italian, regardless of the rumors). But he was a loyal kid and tough as fucking nails. Greg turned him into rat there. Willie never should have left Vinny Artuso. He'd be in Florida now, semi-retired. I'm 55, and if I remember right I have about five or six years on Willie. But he'd be living the good life at fifty instead of what happened up there.

And what they did to that poor fuck in Witness Protection I won't even post. But that's what you get for trusting the Government (so he's not innocent either, I'm just making the point against the way Greg ran his crew).

that is true, JR abused willie in county, greg and craig lied to JR about scores..they made willie a bouncer with eyes on moving tore out. controlling hop and his son..and the jews. JR fell for the B.S. went against tore , got himself pinched. and changed history..

If Mikey Hop wasn't the dumbest half-wiseguy in the history of the Bronx, then his moron son beat him out by half an IQ point. They snowballed the whole fucking thing.

It all started at the place on Boston and Conner anyway. It was a part of the grand design. They gave Willie a suit, told him he was an owner, and conned him into believing that he'd be an owner in Manhattan one day.

And they got all the start up money for Pretty Woman from Fat Pete, the rat in Greg's next case, which is very ironic if you ask me .

That kid was no wiseguy, either. His family got rich in the tuxedo and wedding dress business (and they're GOOD people, don't get me wrong there). But he had no business in the street. He left the program, too. Lives publicly up in Connecticut. It's over.

didn't one of the jews have something to do with a catering hall up there? scores case had the two jews flip, hop, willie, carlino, then craig in atlanta.. the G had a party.. greg gave them everyone on tape from his house..he was told by a cop his house was bugged and still blabbed. had to be twenty guys pinched from his tapes..

Yeah, Mike Blutrich had a piece of the place in New Rochelle. He's the one who REALLY thought he was a wiseguy. But he was a pussy.

Vinny DiNapoli owned half of Shore Road. Blutrich had the balls to approach him about buying the old Glen Island Casino property. Vinny laughed at him, told him he was nobody, and he ended up buying into that dump closer to Iona. I forget the name.

Allie boy was arrested in his daughter's apartment, they also found around $30k under the bed. Which isn't a great amount but seriously, who the fuk hides money under the bed in this day & age. It's the first place thieves go to. Forget the FBI

I would say that alie boy probably got introduced to the life way earlier than Jr and he was a much more capable gangster but there is stories of Jr murdering people but it was all personal nightclub fights and personal beefs.There are no stories of alie boy murdering people during his rise but only someone naive would think that alie boy doesnt have bodies on him.Jr was also notorious for losing sitdowns but at the end of the day he is wealthy out of the life and has hollywood contacts and alie boy has been in prison since he was in his mid 40s and will die there