Fact is, 70% of the Muslim community in Western Europe considers the Quran more important than our laws. At least 50% of them hates the Jews. 73% considers the jihad fighting against Assad heroic, never mind that after the fall of Assad Sharia Law will be implemented.

These are not facts that make me think integration has been a success. The mass immigration from Muslim countries have been a huge mistake, sad as it is.

http://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

Fact is, 70% of the Muslim community in Western Europe considers the Quran more important than our laws. At least 50% of them hates the Jews. 73% considers the jihad fighting against Assad heroic, never mind that after the fall of Assad Sharia Law will be implemented.

These are not facts that make me think integration has been a success. The mass immigration from Muslim countries have been a huge mistake, sad as it is.

http://www.wzb.eu/en/press-release/islamic-fundamentalism-is-widely-spread

[/quote] interesting figures but I am wondering how this survey was conducted. Like the one about jihad against assad. Many people are against assad if you would ask them about secular groups fighting assad they would give the same answers.

Regarding jews i have nothing to say as the opinion of the people is influenced by the actions of Israel. This figure about anti semitism is something i can see around me also, not that i am one.

About homosexuals i have to agree many muslims wont associate with them, but i think this is also influenced by culture, for example honor etc.

They say that they choose qurans laws above national laws. I am 100% sure this comes from the fear of Allah, dont expect your local butcher to deal in AKs because Isis would tell them it is for a good cause.

Conclusion, i admit those are worrying figures but saying muslim immigration is a failure isnt going to help. We have to work together to make it a succes again. My grandfather came here because of work, not so that he could undermine the European government. He was a hard worker as are my dad and uncles, whom have worked hard without associating themselves with terrorism or crime.

You are only joking right? It is hard to imagine someone openly endorsing genocide. As a nation we've condemned; Khmer Rouge, Stalin regime, Ratko Mladic; and the Bosnian genocide, Idi Amin for actually doing this. Why even celebrate the 4th of July if you feel that you are entitled to freedom and you can so callously take it away from others you don't agree with.



You feel just because I am younger than you (do you know how old I am?) that you are automatically right. You saying this without any idea of my life experiences our background or automatically assuming I have never read a book or done any research on my own (other than through mainstream media sources CNN, MSNBC, Fox all included) shows how limited you mindset can be. Sometimes you old guys have tunnel vision and when presented with other ways of viewing things even when presented with facts you will laugh it off, go on a rant about leftist this you hate Bush that and bring up extreme cases of injustice committed by a minority.



There is violence everywhere in the world but you can't blame it on Muslims. Close to 1 billion Muslim live in India, Southeast Asia and China, that makes up 60% of the world Muslim population and you do not see the type of extremism as you do in Middle East and Africa. How come we never hear about Muslims going to Indonesia for fundamentalist training? Because it doesn't exist.

Evangelical Christians teach young children to speak in tongues, all they are doing is speaking gibberish pretending it is Gods granting them some sort of power, I've seen women give a "spiritual birth," I've seen people have seizures because the holy spirit, but its all an act. (This is just my opinion, if you believe in this then I'm glad you are happy with your religion) You don't think that all Christians are like this. You don't think all Catholic priest molest children some do, you don't become a priest and all of a sudden you wanted to molest children it is already in you.

The Westboro Baptist Church, the ones who protest military funerals with signs saying God loves dead marines and thank God for 9/11. They aren't representative of the christian community either. These are an extremist group that are a minority of the worldwide population, just like Islamic extremist are a minority of the Islamic community

Exactly

You're being intentionally obtuse. It doesn't matter if they are a minority in the community when there are 1 billion muslims. As the polls illustrate above, the general ideas of mainstream islam give these guys plenty of intellectual and ideological cover. Want some more? 64% of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support death penalty for leaving Islam (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/). And for all your bullshit about how great southeast asia islam is and how moderate it is- 96% believe womens role is to obey their husbands (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-women-in-society/). 86% in southeast asia believe that sharia should be the law of the land, the goal of "fringe, extremists" seems to a super majority view. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-w...s-about-sharia/). Bare majorities in many countries support honor killings (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-morality/)- itself an act of overt, mysgnostic terrorism.

Bad ideas are bad ideas. And they have consequences.

And again, you try moral equivalences. Somehow, I think what evangelical children do with their children is none of your fucking business. You can sit back and judge them- but they will not show up with a Ak-47 and kill your entire editorial staff for writing shit about them. They are a easy target for criticism. If the Westboro Baptist Church (which polled below 1% unlike say Osama Bin Laden in the islamic community) is the best, most violent, terrible extremism you can find, your point speaks for itself. Christianity, unlike Islam, is a much less violent religion in the 21st century.

You claim that four people don't represent islam. Let's go through this weeks news: 12 dead in Paris (Islam), 4 dead jews (Islam), 2000 dead mostly women and children (Boko Haram, Islam), fire bombing german papers that reprinted cartoons (Islam), unknown hundreds or thousands in Syria/Iraq (ISIS, Islam), Tripoli Cafe Bombing (Islam). These are just off the top of my head.

When there’s this many bad apples, there’s something wrong with the orchard.

I mean I feel that you are



I didn't agree with Bill Maher when he said it first. I've seen that but also 60% of Egyptian Muslims feel that people should be allowed to practice what ever religion they want. Kind of a contradiction maybe the polls aren't as accurate as you want them to be.



Christian women feel the same way, if you say no then you are being obtuse. Also i will quote you " none of your fucking business" what goes on in a marriage that you aren't apart of so that argument holds no ground. Women are also equal, they do not wear head scarves, they can drive, vote and hold political office

You can support the ideology, you can't make an assumption that they condone the killing of innocent people



Id you actually read what I said, I'm not judging them per say I said I don't agree with it but I'm not condemning them, but if it does it for you then live your life that way.

You seem to be missing the point of what saying, probably because you don't like the idea of someone having different ideas or actually questioning you, which I deduce from your overall aggressive tones (unless I am misinterpreting what you are saying) and how you have to curse to try an prove a point, shows you in my opinion simplistic thought process. Where if you don't agree with me, yell yell yell curse curse curse you are a leftist you are this you are that its silly and childish. I don't recall saying you are a right-wing uneducated racist hillbilly, because that is not how I feel. I unlike you it seems respect the opinion and ideas of others and I won't criticize or yell and swear at them for expressing their views, I may question it but I have yet to criticize you.

No you won't find an Evangelical Christian storming buildings with AK-47, I am not disputing that. What I am saying is, that is not the views of all Christians. Like violence is not the views of all of Islam


Other than Paris, where were these attacks located? It is a regional thing its not Islam. In regards to Paris they have links to Syria. It is a regional issue not religious

Well today another nutter firebombed a tabloid in Hamburg.

Ok I'm not certain but I would bet the terrorist are from or have links to the Middle East or Africa, if not I will gladly eat my words. I'm not saying in anyway they are right or have sympathy for them. Just coming to the conclusion that Islam as a whole is to blame doesn't make sense to me

The idea of killing or prohibiting someone from practicing freedom of speech is against everything I stand for. I believe in the constitution of the Unites States, but we can't pick and choose who has rights who doesn't it goes against everything the country stands for

The most numerous victims of Islamic terrorism are Christians. Tens of thousands of Christians have been massacred by Boko Haram and other fanatic groups in Africa alone.

The latest outrage: they used a ten-year-old girl to set off a suicide bomb in Nigeria:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/10...ticle-1.2073696

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills, pal. The first thing I said is that I don't excuse the terrorists in the least. So, no, I don't think the Charlie Hebdo libs - the only ones I was talking about (but you missed that too) deserved to die. What I said was, they weren't innocent and certainly no free-speech heroes. Once again, having "the right" to say something doesn't automatically right to say it.

ivy league, do you or do you not believe in the right of 'FREE SPEECH' if you have the right to say something why can't you say it.

I can read just fine buddy and you know very well what you said and what you are saying is just the same as excusing the acts of terrorists.

'Evil people killing evil people' remember? Fuck that.

And no I didn't miss you were talking about Charlie and not those poor people in the supermarket but my point is that when you start excusing animals for their behavior, like you are doing in the case of those bastards killing the people from Charlie, where does it end? But I guess you missed that.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire

Having the right to say it but it not being right to say doesn't make much sense to me

Anybody who denies that there is a problem with Muslims and thinks it's comparable to other religions is a delusional moron.

There is certainly a problem with Middle Eastern and African extremist. The idea that you can't allow that actions of a few represent an entire religion is not comparing the the extremes of different religions its using rational thinking.

And name calling is for children who don't get what they want. If you want to discuss the first Amendment be my guest, tell me why we should put restrictions on speech and press

no restrictions, if you restrict free speech in any way, then they have won the battle. we cannot give into them, we should attack everything about them, and their religion.

we cannot let these murdering dogs take away free speech in any free nation.

of course you are right, part of their religion, is training radicals to kill, and kill. as of recent events, how can their be any doubt about what they are. murdering dogs. and not only in france. but everywhere on earth.

No restrictions, free speech for all. The idea that we should fight anyone who wants to place a restriction on our rights foreign or domestic I'm all for.

The training radicals is extremist is distorting the word of the prophet and brain washing people to join the cause. Most of the people who join these groups just want power or they see what they would consider injustices committed by foreigners. As I stated in earlier post you have 60% of the Muslims not in the Middle East or Africa, they are not the same as the Muslims committing heinous acts in Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia

Are you actually stating that all followers of Islam are evil?

no, but the ones who are trained to kill, must be brought to justice. they bring shame and dishonor to all muslims.

Cruel words for the Islam.
I think you compare 1billion people with some radicals that bomb and kill. for the 1000000th time they don't represent us and neither do most of us believe in the things they believe in.
Radicalism is driven by Saudi oil money, whom are strong believers of Wahabbism. Wahabbism sees everyone not believing in Wahabbism as infidels, So a sunni like me is just a target as a Jew or Christian.

Absolutely

The main reason the US cares so much

Indeed they do and I agree 100% with what you say about terrorists.
Never forget that Islam, Judaism and Christianity have a lot of similarities and the followers of these religions are sometimes called the people of the book. Instead of flaming and hating on each other on who has the blame we should strive to eradicate the world from terrorism and radicalism.

I agree. I've heard from a few Muslims that part of Islamic teaching is that Christians and Jews are to be treated with respect.

Everyone here is making good points. You can't throw everyone under the bus because they are Muslim, but at the same time, you have to recognize there is a fundamental problem with Islamic radicals and it's roots are religious. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, these motherless fucks hold beliefs contradictory to Western ideals.

And for the record, I would not be as uncomfortable with all this immigration to Europe if everyone just assimilated. As Little Nicky pointed out, there millions of Mexicans in the U.S. yet you don't see them asking to set aside the law for their religious beliefs. Many of them bust their ass just to make a living for themselves and their children

Yes Ivy it is a right. Morality aside, our society is based upon the principle of saying whatever you want whenever you want, with the exception of incite to riot. Why do you think the Supreme Court ruled in favor of those assholes in the Westboro Baptist Church? Because as sick and twisted as they are, they are protected under the law. I'd smash a brick on their faces, but it wouldn't change the fact they have the ultimate right to say and protest whatever and whenever they want.

Really? Let's see...



Yes, I do know what I said. You apparently don't. Which is why you're creating strawman arguments and attributing them to me.



How can that be when the very first thing I said was I don't excuse their acts?



That's exactly what it was. On one extreme you have medieval (to use your word), bloodthirsty Muslim terrorists. On the other end you have Godless, secular West Europeans. I see evil on both sides. However, that doesn't mean I'm equating the evil or saying they deserved to die. I'm simply saying the Charlie Hebdo victims weren't innocent and certainly not heroes.



Then why did you bring them up? Strawman.



As I've explained above, I'm not excusing anything. Just looking at the whole picture. As I also said, nobody is harder on these terrorists than I am. I'm the guy who wanted every prisoner in Guantanamo Bay executed rather than house, feed, and clothe them indefinitely.



Once again, I'm not arguing about their right to say it. I'm saying having "the right" to say it doesn't automatically mean it's right to say it. The Westboro jerks are a good example. They may have the freedom of speech to say what they do but I think most would agree what they say, and how they say it, is wrong.

Ivy, because someone isn't invested in a religion doesn't make them godless. And between Islam and secularism I'd take secularism. Were they heroes? A stretch in seeing they were going about their every day business, but they were innocent in that they were attacked for exercising the right to the freedom of the press. And anyone who sticks it to those extremists bastards is a friend in my book.

The point is, not everything we say is moral, that's on us. But if we had to limit our speech to morality it wouldn't work, because people have a different idea of what morality is. It's better to have a society where we tolerate everyone's beliefs and opinions, no matter if it's wrong or not. In your view something may be right while someone else sees it as condemnable. It's just too slippery of a slope.

You know what Ivy, I do believe you hate terrorists and you think they deserve to die. On the other hand, I also stand by my point that your comments, to me, sound like you also think the people at Charlie deserved to die. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. We won't come to an agreement about that, and life is way too short to start a ten page discussion.

For me, this shit hits pretty close to home, (I live in 'godless' Amsterdam but I'm in Paris a lot and it's just a 4 hour drive) in a time when I'm already very concerned about the millions of Arab immigrants on our continent who seem to hate us and do not respect our culture and traditions. So maybe I did overreact to your comments.

If you would take one advice from me, we're not all godless liberals around here and if you ever decide to visit I think you'll find that our cultures are not that different.