Yet no boss (except Vito Genovese) did serious time in all those years. Not even a small family one.

In the US or wherever, Communists seek the total overturn of the government and economic system. The nature of the threat is different and far greater. In the 20th century it is believed responsible for tens of millions of deaths and wide-scale oppression. As far as too much power in the hands of a few, I agree with you.

ht2, with all due respect I think you are living in the days of
joe McCarthy, hoovers creation. china today is communist in

in name only, there soon to be an economic power. Vietnam today, is our trading partner, after an 11 year war and 60,ooo

lives, the fifties were filled with hoovers communist hysteria, his fbi budget was overflowing with money, because of

his strategy. use mass hysteria to add to his coffers. when it came to real crime the man was an abject failure.

Just because Hoover was wrong on the Mafia doesn't mean he was wrong about Communism. There was a very real threat from Communism in Hoover's time, and if anything it was underplayed. New York Times reporter Walter Duranty intentionally ignored Stalin's atrocities in Ukraine, and much of the rest of the media went along tut-tutting stories about Communist massacres and human rights violations as if they were nothing. When the USSR collapsed and scholars gained access to Soviet archives they found out that what they did was worse than what they thought. Read books by Dmitri Volkogonov who documented much of this. Read the Venona archives, read "The Black Book of Communism." Scholars from Yale put out an entire series of books on Communism with reams of evidence. You can even ask immigrants in this country who lived through Communism. It's not made up nonsense. It's far-left academics who haven't read the real history of the USSR and other Communist states that call what Hoover did "hysteria." Hoover wasn't a John Birch Society extremist; he actually dealt with Communist spies and subterfuge.

You are correct about things being different today, but the way things are today is different than what Hoover had to deal with, and it had nothing to do with his belief about the Mafia.

I also suggest you read Ronald Kessler's books on the FBI, who goes into great detail about the myth of Hoover being blackmailed for wearing a dress. It never happened. Even Jimmy Blue Eyes Alo was asked about this after his close friend Meyer Lansky died, and he also said that it wasn't true, and if anyone would have known about it, it was him.

I am not denying stalins crimes, or maos, they were as bad as hitler, and communism is the very worst form of government, I am opposed to using the fear of said communism, to further ones fascist agenda, which was done under the guise of McCarthyism,

hoover was behind most of this behavior, in his memoirs, harry Truman admits he hated hoover considering him a fascist.
hoover was indeed a blackmailer, see the book " puppetmaster '

ive read kesslers book, im familiar with him. he had written "sins of the father" about joseph p. kennedy. hoover being a homosexual is no myth. this accusation is factual.

im 72 years old, I lived through the fifties, and hoovers image
was a cruel joke on the American public. in future generations
he will be looked upon as a plague on this nation.

that's my humble opinion.

Then if he (Hoover) wasn't being blackmailed, then he was on the payroll getting greased.

Actually, it would've been better for him if he was being blackmailed.

Either way, he was rotten to the bone, worse than a hoodlum.

That's a false choice fallacy. He was neither. And whether he was gay straight or asexual it doesn't really matter. He did use blackmail sometimes no doubt. Whatever he was we have to go by the totality of the evidence and not our preconceived notions.

oh, cmon faithful, why deny whats common knowledge, toodoped posted two videos yesterday. one was a frontline
documentary, and frontline is as credible as you can get.

the evidence is overwhelming. he and clyde tolson today would be considered man and wife. to have a man like that being head of a government agency as the fbi, is asking for black mail by

criminal forces. Robert kennedy despised him. he never did his job. he was never a law enforcement agency, but, rather
a political organization whose main job was keeping the

public in the dark about organized crime. and because of him it grew like a cancer.

Frontline is known for its political bias and is far from an objective source. An honest look at the evidence at best says that he may have been gay. I've read all his biographies and books by agents who worked with him and it's just not conclusive. As for him being blackmailed for being gay, that applies only if there was strong evidence and there never was. A stronger case for blackmail could have been made against JFK bedding an East German spy.

There are also reports and strong evidences that a year after John Kennedy's murder, Sidney Korshak(a lawyer and associate of the upper echelons of the Chicago Outfit) attended a fund raising dinner for Loyola University at Chicago’s Conrad Hilton Hotel. The main guest was J. Edgar Hoover. According to Korshak’s obituary in the Los Angeles Times, Korshak sat next to Hoover at the same table and at the same time Korshak was under a strong investigation by the FBI. Los Angeles Times did not release this information prior to Korshak’s death. After the death of Murray Humphries in 1965, Korshak became one of the top fixers for the Outfit.

Doesnt matter if it was the gay pictures or money,there was something that made Hoover to bow down to the mob.End of story

toodoped, thank you for confirming my thoughts of hoover, I
I find your facts irrefutable. and your posts most informative. you keep up the good work.

Faithful1 is obviously a Hoover fan . c'mon man Hoover did not do his job , for 40 year's . there were racial murder's all over the country he never convicted any klansmen . no mafia conviction's of real purpose , no he was busy at the race track.La costra nostra could not have thrived without his blind eye.

Hey Barry, I don't know you and you don't know me, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm a fan of the truth, not rumors. I've already said that Hoover denied the existence of a national Mafia conspiracy until Apalachin, so I don't know what you want from me other than you trying to troll.

exactly, barry you have said the truth, and you didn't even mention his blackmailing.

Really? What did you do? Did you put her in your Lada trunk with your puppy?

So, Bonnano goes from the most respected man in 57 to 5th on the Commission by 1963 . ?

fuckin popular myths.

to this day there are no facts that back the story that hoover was gay or blackmailed. the opposite - jimmy blue eyes alo - is documented.

faithful1 is absolute right when he refuses biased opinions. like any serious researcher should.

toodoped: just a meeting proves nothing, heavy investigation at that time meant also nothing since a guy is not guilty until conviction. the fbi had virtually nothing on korshak. they just were strongly (and rightfully) suspecting that he more or less controlled the vegas casinos (riviera)..

all in all there is nothing proven (to my knowledge) that hoover was in any way compromised.

Hoover was a little light in the loafers ,,FACT

Got your PMS again?Dont worry Hairy, you may find that you have similar PMS symptoms every month, but they vary in intensity, or you may have slightly different symptoms every few months. PMS tends to be different for every woman.The symptoms of PMS usually happen at the same time in your menstrual cycle each month, which can be up to two weeks before your period starts.Plus your hair just might grow one day

Well we gonna have to agree to disagree on that one

Sidney Korshak testified in 1957 before a Senate committee on criminal labor activites.His close associate in the labor extortion was Tony Insico, well known Accardo associate.

During that period when the meeting took place Korhsak was under strong investigation.So if Hoovers team was so legit,as you say,than they knew who they were dealing with.

During the late 40's Willie Bioff,an informer,told a federal jury that he was introduced to Korshak at a Chicago hotel in 1939 by mobster Charles "Cherry Nose" Gioe.Bioff also testified that Gioe pointed to Korshak and declared that hes their guy and that Korshak is not just any lawyer but its a guy that knows the whole structure of the Outfit and protects their best interest.Im saying this because i can feel where this conversation is going...Korshak was a very well mob connected guy and the whole FBI knew that

"heavy investigation at that time meant also nothing since a guy is not guilty until conviction"...well Hyman Larner was also never convicted in his whole life than again he was a member of the Outfit.

Normally I would have respeonded to this, but I honestly can´t figure out what the fuck you´re talking about.



That´s cute. You´ve just learned how to use a new phrase poperly. You should use that one more often.

Whats all this have to do with the thread?you r drunk again Hairy?Why are you killing our threads with your nonsence?Go away i really have nothing to say to you.Im placing you on ignore and please stop fuckin up our threads.You really need a vacation from these boards

By the way...look at the shout box

You remind me of former chief inspector Dreyfus in the original Pink Panther movies. Go check your blood pressure, Toddo!

I believe Michael Genovese and Big John La cocka from Pittsburgh were there

Michael, John and Gabriel Mannarino represented Pittsburgh.

im reading "mafia summit" the story of the apalachin meet.
it lists everone who was there. 60 were held by edgar crosswell and his n.y. staties.

according to the book Pittsburgh was represented by john larocca, and Gabriel mannarino, and Michael Genovese.

you're right. 1957.

My further understanding is that only Michael and Gabe went into the meeting itself while John waited in the car.

that very well could be. I think the author [gil reavill]
mentioned that some were outside in there cars, it didn't last that long, roadblocks were set up a short time after the staties saw all the flashy cars. [quote] from the book page 244.
when stopped at apalachin Michael Genovese was in subjects [Gabriel mannarino]car with angelo sciandra,and james osticco

Yes...I heard this from one of the participants.

You spoke with one of the participants at the Appalachin Meeting? Why not say who it was? Did they provide any other details?