joey cusak, if you notice in the first rocky movie, rocky has a picture of rocky Marciano on his wall, Marciano just happens to be the greatest heavyweight champion in history. never lost a fight. check out his fights on u tube. the greatest puncher in history. not being racist, just telling it like it is.

No way was Marciano the greatest ever Heavyweight, i'd personally rate him 8th or 9th; and i honestly can't see that convincing of an argument for him being rated above 5th or 4th at most. Marciano fought in the weakest HW division in history. His most impressive victories were his two over Ezzard Charles who was a former Middle and Light Heavyweight, and most Boxing Historians agree that Charles had stopped fighting so agressively since he killed Sam Baroudi.

Other than that he beat a washed up 37 year old Joe Louis in his last fight. Two wins over Jersey Joe Walcott, who had lost 7 of his previous 17 fights, and against Archie Moore who was a natural Middle/Light Heavyweight. I also don't agree with Marciano being undefeated, as i belive he should have lost his split decision victory in the first Roland La Starza fight.

I too don't believe Rocky was the greatest heavyweight champion ever. However, he is one of the greatest. He fought at primarily a light heavyweight weight of about 185 lbs. His knockout percentage is the highest ever and some of his opponents had very good records. In fact, some of his opponents were ahead on score cards until Rocky knocked them out. Also, Rocky scored the only knockdown in the 1st LaStarza fight. Keep in mind that Rocky had one of the most powerful punches ever and that he fought (as an example) 8 fights between 1949 and 1951, two of which took place just 3 weeks apart. It was a different era when there was a strong element of humility, appreciation, and overall decency present in sports figures and he is remembered for those characteristics as much as his boxing prowess.

Actually Vitali Klitschko has the highest KO % of any HW champion, his 41 Knockouts in 45 wins is 91 % compared to Rockys 88% from 43 Knockouts in 49 fights. Just nitpicking it doesn't really mean much either way.

I'd rate these Heavyweights above Marciano. In no particular order:

Muhammad Ali
Joe Louis
Larry Holmes
Sonny Liston
George Foreman
Lennox Lewis
Wladimir Klitschko
Evander Holyfield

I can also see a good argument for another two or three fighters.

camarel, we no doubt have a difference of opinion. as to the first lastarza fight. rockys fight before him was with carmine vingo whom rocky almost killed, he never fought again, and wound up an invalid. it affected him greatly in the first fight with roland. the second fight he destroyed him. ezzard Charles did kill a man in the ring you are correct, however he was and remains vastly underated, in their second fight Charles cut rockys nose off. rocky came back to his corner in the 8th round and his corner {trainer charley goldman } and was told " there going to stop it rock you gotta knock him out" he went out and koed Charles. if you have any doubt of his great punching power please view on u tube the first Walcott fight. 13th round.

great post. great read.

No doubt Marciano is among the hardest ever punchers, i've seen a bunch of his fights including the Walcott one you mentioned. Still wouldn't rate him among the top 5 Heavyweights.

It's really for another thread, and it's a debate that ALWAYS turns ugly here. But here goes:

Now I'm a proud Italian American, and I personally think that Marciano would have beaten anyone his own size. But the litany of giant heavyweights who came after him would have been too much for him to handle. He couldn't have stood up to a young George Foreman.

There's no shame in saying that he was the toughest guy his size. None at all. But that's not good enough for some people, and that's why it's a topic that usually turns ugly around here.

I think it would have been similar to Foreman-Frazier. Rocky had a similar style to Frazier. And I hate to say it, but I think the result would have been the same.

Now, back to the fictional Rocky . . .

well, I don't care. nobody could hit like rocky! and he could take a punch. and he was undefeated. you could only beat him by cutting him, and hope to god he don't hit you. my opinion.

Fair enough, not much point in continuing this as neither of us will change our minds. Thought you'd be interested in this, Ring Magazine rated Marciano 14th on their greatest punchers list. Here's the top 20 and the link:

1. Joe Louis
2. Sam Langford
3. Jimmy Wilde
4. Archie Moore
5. Sandy Saddler
6. Stanley Ketchell
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. George Foreman
10. Earnie Shavers
11. Sugar Ray Robinson
12. Ruben Olivares
13. Wilfredo Gomez
14. Rocky Marciano
15. Sonny Liston
16. Mike Tyson
17. Bob Foster
18. Thomas Hearns
19. Khaosai Galaxy
20. Alexis Arguello

http://boxing.about.com/od/history/a/ring_punchers.htm

camarel, thanks for the list. and youre right no sense in debating the point, however one question. how could archie moore be rated a better puncher than rocky when he knocked rocky down for a two count rocky got up and koed him in the ninth. doesn't that prove rockys a greater puncher? not even to mention he knocked out the number one on that list.

As PB stated above, let's get back to discussing the series of Rocky the fictional Rocky that is the subject of this thread.

The 1st Rocky was hugely inspirational and Stallone was the perfect fit for its lead character. I'm not sure though that it should have won Best Picture. II & III were a continuation of its trilogy, but IV & V were stretches and were tiring. Rocky Balboa was a fitting climax.

Joe Louis was way past his prime he was 37 years old and it was his last fight against Marciano at his best. Louis weighed the heaviest of his career and knew very well that he was a shadow of himself, he was just to stubborn to not retire as champion. The truth is that fight should've never happened in the first place, i think either Louis or Ali was the greatest ever HW and that Louis would have beat Marciano in his prime.

Moore was also a natural Middle or LHW, he was never too good in the HW division, and he was nearly 40 when he fought Rocky.

young man, as one who has been around boxing for 5o yrs. I must say you have a great deal of knowledge on the subject. I still collect ring record books the ones that Fleisher put together. no longer need them though with the internet. and about moore, youre right again. ezzard Charles beat him 3 times. so.. consider Charles being underated. also wasn't ali-frazier matches great!

Thanks, i've just had an interest in it for years. I love watching both new and old fights, and i have a tonne of boxing history books as well as autobiographies. Agreed on the Ali-Frazier fights. The Thrilla in Manilla is probably my favourite ever fight.

interesting. thank you for some great post.