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Re: Israel
[Re: Five_Felonies]
#789627
07/16/14 12:42 PM
07/16/14 12:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,388 Alabama
dixiemafia
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,388
Alabama
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let's see how long they can last without the blank check mislabeled as us foreign aid! They are stronger than you give them credit for but we'll agree to disagree there. As for the quote above EVERY foreign aid package contains weapons. They just never mention that on the news.
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Re: Israel
[Re: dixiemafia]
#789642
07/16/14 01:59 PM
07/16/14 01:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449 New Jersey
Five_Felonies
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
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They are stronger than you give them credit for but we'll agree to disagree there.
As for the quote above EVERY foreign aid package contains weapons. They just never mention that on the news. a conscripted army will never be as strong or as well motivated as an all volunteer force, i don't think anybody can or will dispute that point. yes, they have some well trained operatives who are combat experienced, but again, what weapons do they produce themselves? do they manufacture their own f-15/16's? what kind of a navy do they have? are they equiped with any aircraft carriers, or is their navy made up mostly of a bunch of smaller craft and a few subs? where did they come across the nuclear weapons they are alleged to be in possession of? is their small population and economy capable of funding the current military setup they have in place, or are they dependent on help from outside sources? their military force is roughly the same size as that of the uk, who would smoke them in any type of conflict in short order! i have no dog in the fight over there. i think it's silly for us to continue to waste vast amounts of money to try and shape the region as we see fit, which hasn't exactly worked out too well! i get very annoyed at all of these people who are so passionate about supporting them. imo, unless you are willing to join up or send your own family over there to fight for them, you should keep your fucking ideas to yourself. religious nutjobs have and will continue to kill each other based off of a bunch silly nonsense, best to just steer clear of the whole mess imo!
It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
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Re: Israel
[Re: Longshoreman]
#789668
07/16/14 03:29 PM
07/16/14 03:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves just as surely as the Israelis do. They are human too. It's amazing how that never gets thru in the American media. If violence is wrong it's wrong for everyone. Eliminationist fantasies aside, the Palestinians aren't going anywhere. If an argument requires denying the humanity of your opponent, it's a shit argument. In the same way that apartheid South Africa was forced to change, eventually Israel will as well. The occupation and settlements can't continue unending. The only question is how many innocents will die before change occurs. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...e_occupied.html
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Israel
[Re: olivant]
#789676
07/16/14 03:52 PM
07/16/14 03:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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Change will occur when Palestinians rid themselves of Hezbollah, El Fatah, the Al Aqsa Martyrs, and Hamas (among others), and embrace democracy. Had Egypt not joined Syria in the six day war in '67 and Jordan fulfilled its armistice agreement following the 1948 arab-israeli war, Palestinians would have a state of their own. Hezbollah is not Palestinian. And non-violent Palestinians are shot, arrested and beaten just as violent Palestinians are. Fatah has already recognized Israel's right to exist. What they have refused to do is to recognize Israel as "a Jewish state". There is no chance under current settlement activity for Palestinians to have a state of their own as Israeli land grabs have increased exponentially since 1993 Oslo accords. Hamas was elected. The Israelis shouldn't be able to elect their leaders and the Palestinian leaders. In war/conflict you can only make peace with enemies.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Israel
[Re: olivant]
#789710
07/16/14 05:44 PM
07/16/14 05:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,531 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,531
AZ
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One of the under-reported stories is how Palestinians contribute to their own misery through their own bad choices that they refuse to take responsibility for. Case in point:
After Arafat died in late 2005,(leaving his family in Switzerland richer by the $2 billion he embezzled from his own people), Mahmoud Abbas became leader of the Palestinian Authority. Israel thought he was a man of peace so they returned Gaza to the PA--in the process removing 9,000 Jewish settlers, many forcibly, so the Palestinians wouldn't be bothered by any Jews in their midst. The Palestinians immediately voted out the PA and installed Hamas, an Islamic terrorist organization whose charter calls for the destruction of Israel. They then started raining rockets down on Israel (~9k by now).
What did the Palestinians think was going to happen when they voted in Hamas? Did they think Israelis would stand idly by while their country was being attacked? And, what did they think would happen now, when Hamas resumed raining missiles on Israel, storing them in private homes, schools, hospitals and mosques? Israel actually warns Gaza residents when they are about to attack, and gives them time to clear out--do we provide similar concern to our enemies in Afghanistan? The people clear out; Hamas urges them to stay because Hamas wants dead martyrs so they can prop up their corrupt, fascistic regime and generate wailing-mother video for the global media.
I believe the average Palestinian doesn't want war any more than the average Israeli, and with good reason: Palestinians have suffered far more casualties in the many battles waged with Israel. But they need to take responsibility for their actions. Hamas, with Gazans' fervid approval, started the current battle.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Israel
[Re: Turnbull]
#789717
07/16/14 06:01 PM
07/16/14 06:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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Palestinians have suffered far more casualties in the many battles waged with Israel. But they need to take responsibility for their actions. Hamas, with Gazans' fervid approval, started the current battle. Spot....freaking....on. But this shit's never gonna end.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Israel
[Re: Lilo]
#789747
07/16/14 08:41 PM
07/16/14 08:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
ItalianForever
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
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Change will occur when Palestinians rid themselves of Hezbollah, El Fatah, the Al Aqsa Martyrs, and Hamas (among others), and embrace democracy. Had Egypt not joined Syria in the six day war in '67 and Jordan fulfilled its armistice agreement following the 1948 arab-israeli war, Palestinians would have a state of their own. Hezbollah is not Palestinian. And non-violent Palestinians are shot, arrested and beaten just as violent Palestinians are. Fatah has already recognized Israel's right to exist. What they have refused to do is to recognize Israel as "a Jewish state". There is no chance under current settlement activity for Palestinians to have a state of their own as Israeli land grabs have increased exponentially since 1993 Oslo accords. Hamas was elected. The Israelis shouldn't be able to elect their leaders and the Palestinian leaders. In war/conflict you can only make peace with enemies. This country gives every shit hole country money including the Palestinians. Dont be selective about israel , if you gotta problem with foreign aid, why don't you aim it at the countries who harbor terrorists.
Last edited by ItalianForever; 07/16/14 08:51 PM.
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Re: Israel
[Re: olivant]
#789763
07/17/14 01:30 AM
07/17/14 01:30 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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Your post is a mix and match. As I posted above, when the Palestinians rid themselves of terrorists groups, then the Israelis can begin seriously discussing Palestinian integration into a middle east state. Israel is a Jewish state and El Fatah does not speak for the arab world which has consistently since 1948 sought to destroy Israel. Currently, palestinians do not have the gravitas to preclude any palestinian state from becoming a staging area for terrorism against Israel. Hamas was elected in the Gaza strip, but within the Fatah sphere of government which Hamas has refused to recognize. Actually when Hamas was elected Fatah tried to overthrow it and lost. Hamas and the Palestinian Authority (Fatah) have now just recently formed a unity government. One of Israel's responses was to imprison/kill Hamas elected officials. As I've written before Israel has increased the number of settlements during the so-called peace process to the point where it is laughable to talk about a two-state solution. They have done this despite the PA acceding to virtually every Israeli demand. There is, absent massive pressure, no longer room for a two-state solution. You write as if the Palestinians are destroying Israeli homes, forcing the Israelis into ever smaller refugee areas or using live rounds against protesters. This is not the case. The occupation and creeping annexation of the West Bank and the blockade of Gaza are criminal actions. Israel doesn't get to pick the leaders of the Palestinians any more than the French got to decide who led the Algerians or the Americans chose those of the Lakota Sioux. From a Palestinian perspective one could just as easily say that we refuse to negotiate with an Israeli government that includes groups like Shas or Yisrael Beitenu. The only solution long term is a unitary state with equal rights for all. If South Africa can accomplish it, Israel certainly can.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Israel
[Re: ItalianForever]
#789809
07/17/14 07:35 AM
07/17/14 07:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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I hear you Pizza. I just view this issue and the move in this country towards anti Israel viewpoints as more evidence of this country's moral deterioration. We used to support allies. I fervently support them, too. But when this thread started, I knew it was going to be trouble. That's all .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Israel
[Re: Footreads]
#789823
07/17/14 09:09 AM
07/17/14 09:09 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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One of My daughters graduated from Columbia university in 2002. A lot of the students and teachers at the graduation were wearing scarves. Evidently were Palestinian scarves. They were showing solidarity with the Palestinians.
I did not know what to make of this we just went to celebrate her graduation. Yeah, Columbia, where they gave Mahmoud Ahmadinejad a platform to spew his hate all in the name of "free speech." Of course that does nothing to diminish your daughter's accomplishments, Foot. But that was the last straw for me with that school. There are liberals, and then there are self-hating Americans. And Columbia crosses that line way too often for my taste.
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: Israel
[Re: Five_Felonies]
#789831
07/17/14 09:36 AM
07/17/14 09:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,388 Alabama
dixiemafia
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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ROLL TIDE!!!!!
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,388
Alabama
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They are stronger than you give them credit for but we'll agree to disagree there.
As for the quote above EVERY foreign aid package contains weapons. They just never mention that on the news. a conscripted army will never be as strong or as well motivated as an all volunteer force, i don't think anybody can or will dispute that point. yes, they have some well trained operatives who are combat experienced, but again, what weapons do they produce themselves? do they manufacture their own f-15/16's? what kind of a navy do they have? are they equiped with any aircraft carriers, or is their navy made up mostly of a bunch of smaller craft and a few subs? where did they come across the nuclear weapons they are alleged to be in possession of? is their small population and economy capable of funding the current military setup they have in place, or are they dependent on help from outside sources? their military force is roughly the same size as that of the uk, who would smoke them in any type of conflict in short order! i have no dog in the fight over there. i think it's silly for us to continue to waste vast amounts of money to try and shape the region as we see fit, which hasn't exactly worked out too well! i get very annoyed at all of these people who are so passionate about supporting them. imo, unless you are willing to join up or send your own family over there to fight for them, you should keep your fucking ideas to yourself. religious nutjobs have and will continue to kill each other based off of a bunch silly nonsense, best to just steer clear of the whole mess imo! I have no dog in this fight either. Of course the UK would smoke Israel in a war, I never said Israel could handle any of the big dogs (U.S., Russia, UK, etc.) but there is NOT ONE country or organization in the Middle East that could bang heads with Israel and win. They don't need a Navy to sustain themselves, so why even bother with one? Also as for weapons like olivant said they make the Merkava tank, they also make the LAR (160mm artillery rocket pod launchers), they make the 120mm tank gun for the Merkava's, they make Uzi's as well (not a big military weapon though), they also have their Delilah cruise missile, the Negev machine gun, Desert Eagles (not much good for military use though), the TAR-21 is a good bullpup weapon, they also make a laser guided missile, and of course their best weapon they still make is probably the Galil so yes they are somewhat self sustaining. They are also loaded with F-15 and F-16 fighter jets which are no joke either. So yea as I said they are no joke as a military force but in no way am I saying they could handle the big boys of the world.
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