Ummm...newsflash, if you read the last 30 posts it appears it your your credibilty which has been made null and void, not mine.
I back my statements up with facts, you "never doubt the feds"

Yes. The same for other guys like LoScalzo, Smaldone, and Milano. A guy may still technically have the title even after the family he belongs to has withered away.

No, you don't. You bring up a handful of unrelated cases to use as an excuse to claim the feds are lying whenever you feel like it. Other than that, just a bunch of baseless claims about yourself, your history, and a whole lot of assumptions and speculation.

Wait...LOL...so now Saladino was an Outfit associate, and THEN became the bodss of a family that hadnt existed since the 80s?
LOL
Do you even see how badly you are failing here?

I couldn't care less about the current "debate" on here, but Ivy is right.

Calabrese gave the 60 names, and it obviously included, at the very least, people in jail, and almost certainly dead people he could ID as made.

Chuck Goudie reported on it and qualified the number with the statement: "60 made members, many of whom are still out on the street."

That being said the 28 figure thrown out by the FBI is now getting so old that it really probably cannot be seen as current. It's at least, what, 7 years old?

The best info I've heard in addition to the fed's number is that Fosco said that Magnifichi told him they made some guys either in the 90s or 2000s, I forget which decade, it's buried somewhere in the comment section on that site.

Interestingly this could probably all be solved with a call to the Chicago FBI office by a reporter like Warmiber--he could simply ask them how many made guys they believe there are--but he or a similar reporter likely won't cover it until something relevant happens (well, more relevant than the debate as to Ivy Leagu's merit as a poster).

let me fill you in... the guys in rockford are making a killing by forcing all the gangbangers to get in line. yes, the same savages that will shoot someone over a bright yellow gumball are so in awe of a few old men who i constantly hear hang out at some big fish fry that they are paying up. why is that? do the rockford guys bring in the drugs? maybe they are shaking down the cartel cells active in the area as well. since you don't live there, you are wrong son!

Tell us Ivy Leauge, in your vast knowledge of the ways of the FBI, why did they bump Chicago PD off the Mandel case?
If in the opinion of you "Outfit is dead" types it would have to have been just a common murder investitigation.

Can you even find Rockford, or Illinois for that matter, on a map?
tell me, what are the gang affiliations of the drug dealers in Rockford, and where do they each operate from?

Actually you know what..nevermind...the answer is rhetorical anyway.
You either get it or you don't...and you don't

One thing is for sure, the Mandel operation ALONE requiresd more then the involvement of 28 guys...and it only involves 3 Outfit crews...so do the math

The Arm:

I don't mean to be beligerent but I am not prepared to simply take you for your word that Mandel was going to overthrow the entire Outfit.

I think that would probably come out at trial.

Just for the sake of argument, though, who are your sources?

And, for the millionth time, I don't mean name names: I just mean "connected guys in Rockford" etc.

I've been among the quickest to correct those who claim the Outfit is "dead." That's no more true than the claims by others that the Outfit's current size and scope is larger than it is.



The 28 members the FBI cited wasn't the total manpower of the Outfit. The feds also cited "a little over 100 associates."

Annnnnnyway so...anything new on the Mandell case?

Not that I've heard, and I have a feed.

Actually it's been a loooooooong time since there was any Outfit bust at all.

No, I am not going to count Mandell, as he was not a direct member and for all we know was just some nut job dropping names.

But there hasn't been a bust of a real Outfit scam/likely made guy since Sarno.

That investigation began way back in 2008.

That's like six years without a bust.

You misundersdtand, Mandell was not trying to "overthrow" the outfit, he was engaged by the outfit. he has always been a reliable attack dog.
Let me give you a view of the landscape;
There are about 10 people (not LCN people) who run to one extent or the other, the entire adult industry, legal and illegal, in Cook, kane Lake, Mchenry and Winnebago counties. We are not talking about just massage parlors and $10 crack whores here, we are talking about a multi million dollar industry in escort services, gentlemens clunbs, swinger clubs and international human trafficing
Some Italin, some Russian, some god knows what. Some do so publicly, others are under the RADAR.
The entities who got them in line were the Elmwood and melrose park and the Cicero crews of the outfit, and the Cook County Russian mob, also mostly based in Elmwood park.
There were two people NOT in line, and they were the biggest players.
The theory was, whack one, either one and the other falls in line. The one that was immently pickes was chosen becuse he also came with about 30 business and residential properties.

As for my sourses, a lot of this came out in court for all to see.
Beyond that, I am either blessed of cursed with a last name that opens doors for me in the LCN world, so my sourses are both made guys and associates from Rockf0ord and Chicago, as well as peoplein other professions which brush up against them in a position to know
All I do on sites like tghis is attempt to set the record straight on some of the myth and misconceptions that flaot around. It is a good way for me to vent and cleanse my soul.
I am careful NOT to give away inside information, names, dates etc.

I thought Quaranta was linked with Cicero...why would he need to be brought back in line?

Nonos, I would count the Caparelli bust an outfit bust. I'm pretty sure the Outfit is mentioned in the indictment. Wonder what's going on with that.

Yes, right--forgot about that.

Quaranta was apprently off the reservation and not on board with the plan. The guy was comfortable making low 6 figures and banging Russian chicks and his envoloples were nickles and dimes when he kicked up at all.

Mandell is 100% Outfit affiliated & was not merely "dropping names". He is half Italian & a lifelong friend of the Venas, Spilotros, Spinas, etc. And just as crazy as they are, if not crazier. He's been a shakedown artist for the Grand avenue crew since he was a cop under Joey Lombardo.

Do you hang out with him often?

This is arguably the most informative thing you've contributed thus far.

Back when Mandell went by Manning before his old man got gunned down.

He's a pretty well known character amongst northside Outfit circles.

Thanks !...much easier to be informative when not defending myself from trolls and haters

Interesting, but they got the guy on tape for hours and hours talking about everything under the sun, and aside from the time he claimed to meet Vena at La Scarola, nothing else about the Outfit.

Normally I would say that makes sense because people don't usually talk about that stuff, but since he already had spilled the beans on everything else, why not?

It's likely that the feds would have sat on this and waited until they could bring more people down if it was a larger plot.

So, on one hand, he is stupid enough to get himself sent to prison for the rest of his life by openly discussing his plans to dismember people.

On the other hand he is wily enough to keep all the organzied crime stuff, for the most part, under wraps.

Not saying it's impossible, just playing devil's advocate.

I'm not sure what you're arguing against? I'm not offering an opinion, this is Mandells personal history.

Don't try to apply logic to a sociopath, this guy got himself pinched before by telegrapphing his every move and wearing it like a new suit.
I sereously question the wisdom of they engaging this guy to begin with. he is loyal and reliable as hell but also a loose cannon.
What he does have is balls like an elephant and is absolutly ruthless, and that is what this job called for..so it was a double edged sword.
Also don't assume the final chapter has been written on all of this

The feds would have sat on it & Allowed two men to get brutally mutilated & tortured in the name of the Chicago Outfit? Maybe 40 years ago, not in the human rights era.

Well, who knows. Not me!

And apparently not law enforcement!

Just using common sense, you honestly believe they would have allowed the murders to have been carried out just so they could further the case? They would have all promptly lost their jobs.