Nicky Barnes was schooled by both Joe gallo and Matty Madonna while he was in prison and he bought a lot if heroin from Madonna and from guys in the bonanno family, I don't know much about Frank Lucas other than the movie American gangster was greatly exaggerated
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764096 02/16/1410:40 PM02/16/1410:40 PM
Didn't Nicky Barnes criminal career at the top only last like 7 years? Hardly enough time to build up a network that could of rivaled any of the Five Families. Same with Frank Lucas. From Bumpy Johnson's death til his arrest, it was only about 6 years.
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764108 02/17/1412:13 AM02/17/1412:13 AM
what is your opinion... Did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes power-wise and wealth rival the Five Families? particually the Genovese
I dont know but it would have been interesting to see what the council would have become. I dont think that it was sustainable due to the fact that I dont believe they ( Nicky barnes and his guys) were into anything other than drug dealing.I dont think they were into gambling , load sharking and etc etc
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764118 02/17/1405:17 AM02/17/1405:17 AM
Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,684 new jersey
In nick Barnes biography he claimed to have killed a made member of the mafia without retaliation
"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: thebigfella]
#764120 02/17/1406:08 AM02/17/1406:08 AM
In nick Barnes biography he claimed to have killed a made member of the mafia without retaliation
The mobsters name was mikey pugliese, theres a thread where i went into this bit more in depth, this should help. http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=661190 I thought his name was carmine pugliese. But heres the mobsters episode calling him mikey and saying he was a bonnano family soldier.
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: Scorsese]
#764166 02/17/1402:34 PM02/17/1402:34 PM
In nick Barnes biography he claimed to have killed a made member of the mafia without retaliation
The mobsters name was mikey pugliese, theres a thread where i went into this bit more in depth, this should help. http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=661190 I thought his name was carmine pugliese. But heres the mobsters episode calling him mikey and saying he was a bonnano family soldier.
so Barnes was as powerful as the Five Families, the Genovese in particular? Bonanno as well?
Last edited by FireHawk; 02/17/1402:34 PM.
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764179 02/17/1403:39 PM02/17/1403:39 PM
He was one of the most powerful drug traffickers at the time and his status and position could have probably trumped a lot of people in new yorks criminal underworld. Cant say that he was more powerful than two crime families but i will say that the drug trafficking and running a union and gambling are completely different fields of criminal activity, and that killing barnes wasn't going to somehow bring things back to the way they were in fact it probably would have made things worser on the streets and in the prisons when it came to down to the mob trying to live and operate in the city.
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: Scorsese]
#764181 02/17/1403:44 PM02/17/1403:44 PM
I can find zero reference to this mikey pugliese guy. Zero reference to him existing, being made, etc. Can anyone provide real information
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: LittleNicky]
#764188 02/17/1404:05 PM02/17/1404:05 PM
its actually referenced in that documentary, the undercover agent who infiltrated them, and also testimony in court against other members of the council.
Yea, that's nice but the vast majority of documentaries have little concern for actual facts. Often those not associated with the actual research widely speculate about a guys status with no references or evidence. Can someone give me the case (i can pull the dockets) or the newspaper articles (got the database that can pull ever historical paper since the 1800s)
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764190 02/17/1404:13 PM02/17/1404:13 PM
Well no wonder, the documentary didn't even get his name right.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764191 02/17/1404:18 PM02/17/1404:18 PM
I still can find no reference to this guy as being anything but a drug dealer.
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: Scorsese]
#764192 02/17/1404:20 PM02/17/1404:20 PM
What family? Who made him? That literally gives zero information
Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison. I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate... for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: LittleNicky]
#764195 02/17/1404:26 PM02/17/1404:26 PM
Please don't tell me you're asking cook to clarify something lol. Cook follows his routine, he posts 3 or 4 randomly spaced out sentences with no basis in reality and that's about as much you get from him. That being said i'd say that was one of cooks most sensible posts.
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: Camarel]
#764209 02/17/1405:28 PM02/17/1405:28 PM
I'd say that the fact the Italians were involved and profiting from both Lucas and Barnes operations, makes it unlikely that they were threatened or rivaled by them. I'd also say that the five families were involved in very different rackets like Loansharking,Gambling,Extortion and Union related crimes, while neither Lucas or Barnes groups were this diverse or tried to impede on the Italians there. I think both decided to operate together and that the Italians profited much more from their crimes than vice-versa.
In all honesty though i'm not the person to ask, the knowledgabl,e posters on Black crime like BlackFamily or Scorcese, as well as all of the NY crime posters are.
Certainly not someone like cookcounty who professes to be an expert on any Chicago related crime even though he's usually wrong, and who has no problem chiming in on any other crime in the world without ever going further than his vague three sentence routine.
Re: did Frank Lucas and Nicky Barnes rival the Mafia?
[Re: FireHawk]
#764248 02/17/1409:36 PM02/17/1409:36 PM