There is no fucking lettuce on a real Chicago dog. And you guys will argue about any damn thing I see.

haha i was just kidding about the hot dog…just busting balls, but truthfully I've never really thought a hot dog needed anything more than some mustard but to each his own i guess.

I think both sides make valid points. The arm makes an interesting point about knowing vs. indicting is a different thing, and it is easy for someone in some podunk town in nowheresville to make statements. ther eis something to be said for walking in the neighborhoods.

ON the other side, the charts i see online are ridiculous. And the lack of indictments is usually inicative of a lack of activity. all the feds need to do is flip is a shy or sports customer who is feeilng threatened and they got the shy on extortion, shy and sports gambling.

You are wrong southjeresy. Chicago has invented a new method of running tons of multi-million dollar books without a single customer ever getting in contact with the feds. The FBI just can't find a single customer, because apparently they are "insulated" too.

In all seriousness New York has done a great job turning their city around since the 70's. We could learn a lot from New York over here

That is a good point , as Chicago trends legal , I see that trend continuing over time .

With NY / NJ is still basically the same scams minus Fish Fulton , windows and gas rackets

There is still huge gambling network here that requires hundreds of workers , a lot of extortion , huge shy books , still big construction , garbage, ports and a lot of drugs (especially high end weed ). They need 1000s of workers to make this happen , these are hands on businesses mainly dealing in cash and stilll needs a good share of violence and intimidation and is why we still see big busts every year but it ain't coming down anytime soon , it's too big .

With Chicago I see very little activity and that's really the only way to track this thing , as long as activity is big , indictments will be coming , always have , always will . Don't get me wrong it's still there but seems to be shrinking rather than the growth / stabling there has been in nj/ ny

well either that or they are finding ways to duck law enforcement I mean for example the Gambinos and The Luccheses should have at least a 1000+ people working for them so where are all these guys and what are they doing, plus not all the soliders have been identified in those families, although many have been there is still a lot that are either unconfirmed or they just don't know about I would assume.

My instinct tells me that the huge influence of Mexican cartels has some adverse influence on the Outfit in Chicago. For instance, two years ago El Chapo Guzman, the Sinaloa drug lord, was declared Public Enemy #1 in Chicago by the FBI..first time that has happened since Capone. Many in the local media laughed, but they conveniently ignored the multitude of recent arrests of Mexican nationals with direct connections to the cartels and millions of dollars worth of drugs and cash made both in the city limits and the suburbs

And at least for the Luchesse there are tons of associates

Now you and me probably look at associates differently

Many associates have legal jobs but are gambling agents on the side , or move

Some drugs on the side or are involved in the contraction or garbage business

Geez just look at all the big busts that included Luchesse , the massive jan 2011 historic busts , the huge NJ crew busts In 2008 and 2010 . The Tacetta weed bust a few weeks ago , the Scarfo JR bust involving Taking over First Financial and looting $12m. The big garbage bust in jan 2013.

Now some of these also involve other families but a lot of Luchesse guys were busted in these too . This is what I am talking about , this shit is everywhere but you see none of these type busts in Chicago in 10 years . The level of illegal activity just isn't anywhere near the same level IMO. Now I'm not saying it's not there , just no where near the manpower and activity and this is just 1 family .

Exactly little Nicky . You just can't have large scale gambling , shy and labor racketeering business without indictments of at least the associates every few years, anybody who has been in he biz or knows some players knows this . The reality is it just ain't happening there to a large level anymore , which you would think posters view as a good thing lol

@the dago.

If DB, LittleNicky and Dellacroce's logic can't now finally convince you that your beloved outfit is not the all singing all dancing colossus it once was but merely a shell you're simply incapable of understanding.

But the thing is there have been arrests
-Casey Szaflarski with poker machines
-Rudy Fratto with bid rigging
-Sarno
-Paul Carparelli

Well I guess we just disagree on what we consider big busts .

Those were really important arrests but not the big takedowns you see in NY and that IMO is indicative of the difference in manpower where the Genovese Gambino and to a lesser extent the Luchesse are still big diverse organizations

Chicago IMO are much smaller than them with less much illegal revenue

Some of the people here have said that Chicago still gets a piece of Latin American casinos.

If thats true there may be some big money there, but I've only heard that on this site, so I don't know if thats true.

Better to be legit anyways. If the Outfit is mostly a legit, thats a victory for the Outfit

Well if it goes legit , which many suspect , then that would explain the lack of arrests and violence the last decade however if most of the members go legit the outfit structure will slowly fade away and there won't be much for mob watchers to discuss

The top five is still the New York families.
1. Genovese
2. Gambino
3. Lucchese
4. Bonanno
5. Colombo

There was a time when Chicago would be number three, but after Vegas they lost a lot of power due to those cases and Family Secrets did a lot of damage to that family. I would place Chicago at number six on the list despite the shape of the Colombo family, the Colombos are in better shape then the Outfit.

I'm curious what people mean when they use the phrase "going legit"? If you are talking about like what happened in buffalo, going into a food business, that's complete legit and no longer really organized crime. They have to compete like every other guy and the LCN really is no longer LCN. That kind of going "legit" is another word for people just leaving the life all together and admitting the mafia in chicago is dying.

Then you got guys like Nicky Jr that believe that white collar scams are a form of going "legit".

I guess a middling position is using the front businesses for more than money laundering, but relying on them as a source of revenue. But there is still some criminal revenue.

Then it's no longer the outfit is it?

Yes largely leaving the life , no longer using violence or intimidation as part of their biz

Mainly getting contracts / biz / etc mostly legally , possibly thru connections which some construe as having some illegitimacy to it but no longer whacking , beating up or threatening people to get or increase their revenue .

IMO No Nose played a part in Chicago re treating into a more legitimate route and maybe when he dies we see a resurgence but right now they are likely the weakest they have ever been from a manpower / violence perspective . Some quality guys for sure but what happens when they go is the big ?

If the outfit goes legit that is a win for Chicago , a win for former Outfit members but clearly not a win for the Outfit itself as an illegal OC organization

The only real damage family secrets was putting away Marcello. Aside from him, everyone else was for the most part retired or shelved.

I didn't follow the trial very closely but it seemed many of the alleged crimes happened many years ago , almost like recent Luftansa heist .

However Marcello seemed to be a guy that could of changed the strategy and really ramped up street activity, recruitment etc. so from that viewpoint it was probably a big blow

The heads of the five families and three of the four MobWives answer directly to Joey the Clown

If you think Chicago rivals any NY family you need to see a shrink immediately. End of story. Close this stupid fuckin thread already

why do all these pro new york rats hate on the outfit? And wish for it to be dead? You think New york is holy water or something. I live here on the north west side of this city, the shit is in plane sight!! Let it be clear NEW YORK ISN'T SHIT, ITS NOTHING BUT A BIG RAT NEST FULL OF COWARD PUSSY RATS. Jesus fucking Christ look at New York's history! Every single New York mob activity ends with some dumb ass east coast dude ratting. Here in Chicago they don't rat! And they don't get caught no where near the same frequency as New York. The lack of indictments is a testimony of Chicago's superior street smarts over bitch ass New York. I cant believe People on the east coast or where ever think the outfit is dead. Ya, the 3rd Largest city in America with 10 million people in the Chicago land area has a dead mafia Organization....idiots. That's like saying fat people just don't eat butter fingers anymore. I feel like the Marines vs Army over here in that the Army is responsible for 70% of the fighting and dieing in every war the U.S. has ever been involved in and the Army has received 80% of all medal of honor medals ever awarded yet the Marines some how think they are the shit and better then the Army.

Dago that was the smartest post I've seen since I've signed up. Kudos to you.

Seriously. Do u have to think real hard to breath or does it come natural?

i got to say. lots of guys are called outfit, but really are just italian criminals. we got to stop calling italians mafia beucase they are involved in some cirmes. other guys mentioned in the outfit chart i am sure have no connected to the "mafia" and are only on there because of our anti-italian media.

Laugh. My. Fucking. Ass. Off.

You Chicago guys sure give me a chuckle. Thanks for the expense.

sonny u live in austrialia. have you even met an italian before

gold.