Do any detroit guys know if tirami su restaurant is a connected joint.i was at the one in shelby township last Wednesday and there were a few wiseguys in there.the food was great btw. Also i know the Detroit partnership has decreased tremendously in the last 10 years, but is there any known hangouts left?

The owners are the D'Annas. As far as I know there are more "proofs" of them being connected oversea than here.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-n...a-boss-in-italy

Out of curiosity: how did you know that those guys having supper where connected? Anyone "famous"? Giacalones, etc…?

Thanks for sharing kuci.no giacalones. Maybe they werent wise guys, i just figured they were by the way they carried themselves. They were all at a corner table shooting the shit about sports lines and stuff

The D'Annas are definitely connected, and more than likely made, in the Detroit family. Their Uncle was Anthony "Tony Cars" D'Anna, a former big time Capo in the family. Tony Cars got his nickname because he had deep connections to Big 3 executives/employees and union reps. He also owned Ford/Lincoln dealerships. He was from Terrasini.

The D'Anna brothers have been in Michigan since the late 80's early 90's. Giuseppe "Joe the Hood" D'Anna, has reportedly been put in charge of the zips in the metro area. There are a lot of recent Sicilian immigrants that live in Northern Macomb County (Shelby Township, where Tirami Su is at, and Macomb TWP), and across the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor, Ontario. Windsor has a true Little Italy, where the Detroit area really doesn't.

And no real wiseguy affiliated with the Detroit family would be hanging out in the open at Tirami Su today. It's now a well known labeled mob connected business. An incentive for these guys NOT to hangout there.

If you want to go to a restaurant in the area that is connected and frequented by area mobsters, go to Luciano's on Garfield in Clinton Township. There was a recent gambling bust that took place there. Card games and bookmaking out of the restaurant. I believe it was a Michigan State Police bust.

Most restaurants in any major city are connected in one way or another. One way being they know people and the other way being an envelope.

Pedasso, thanks for the input. Been to luciano's before , nice place. Is there any less classy spots were wiseguys hangout in detroit? Like sports bars or something.

Harry, you think the restaurants are "connected" to the Italians or just connected in general...politicians, police etc??

I keep hearing about this "zip crew" and that the eldest D'Anna is allegedly in charge of it.
But, are we so sure there are enough "zips" to be in charge of?
Or that there are any at all?

My dad, uncles and (Sicilian-born) nonno hang around few bars/restaurants owned and frequented by other Italians.
As far as I'm told, the worst that can happen in those places are some back room poker games and some gambling.

Nothing more than what goes on in almost every other tavern/bar/restaurant around the country.

Detroit ain't Montreal you know...

There's a quarter of a million Italians in the Metro Detroit area, more if you count the Windsor suburbs. I personally know a lot of families in the area who are newer arrivals, (last 15-20 years or so). I think the term "zips" is an overreaching term in this context. I think it means more of the Italian born guys who have been here for many years, vs a new transplant. But I personally believe there are those guys as well. You have to remember the D'Anna family controls Terrasini in Sicily to this day. And Terrasini is where most of the historical Detroit families are from. Food for thought.

Another thing to consider is the Detroit-Windsor border is the busiest border crossing in America, in terms of traffic and monetary movement. It's funny you mention Montreal, because it's been reported that Canadian mafioso have increasingly been using the Detroit-Windsor crossing in smuggling. That requires man power and cooperation between existing mafia families. Am I insisting the Detroit family is moving weight like Montreal? Absolutely not, but there is more than likely a working relationship between the Detroit "zips" and the Canadians. I've also heard there is a crew from one of the families from Toronto in Windsor for this exact reason.

Are your family members in the Detroit area Kuci?

The size of the Italian population doesn't automatically implies a larger involvement in traditional organized crime.
That proves the exact opposite: many Italians live in Metro Detroit yet the Combination is close to be defunct.

Meaning many things: no effort to get involved; no structure to be connected to; no willingness to keep it open and running; not enough for all; not worth associating; no gain; no interest in a life of crime (despite the stereotype)...and so forth.

I'm well aware of the weight Italian criminals carry in Canada, they deserve no skepticism.

I was talking about the speculated zip crew within the Tocco crime family.
The fact that the D'Annas are related to some big-time wiseguys of Detroit's past and today's Sicily doesn't imply that they rule the townships as well.

They attempted to extort a rival restaurant owner by themselves just to be nailed right afterwards. Not exactly the best demonstration of power and organization.
Their restaurant is under new management and it's called "Il Pomo d'Oro".

Before we get some more info on them, I stick to what I've been told:

- the D'Annas are a lot of smoke and no bang.
- most likely there is no zip crew within what's left of the Toccos.
- any possible "zip" active in Michigan is doing it independently or on the behalf of non-Detroit based groups.

since the late 60s

Evidence, or are you basing your information on lack of indictments, which is as lopsided as saying they are thriving because of this fact? Both sides are incorrect, and too black and white.

Again you are reaching for saying that MORE Italians means LESS potential for organized crime. Am I saying all Italian Americans in the Detroit area are involved? Hell no, that would mean I'm involved.

The Detroit family is certainly not defunct, evidence please...again if you only use Google, you will be missing many of the cases against the family in the last 20 years. Look at MacombGuys' posts, there are many more than the 1996 and 2006 busts. These are straight from the Macomb, Wayne, and Oakland county databases. Unfortunately, the MSP doesn't have a free searchable site, so there is potentially even more busts we don't have access to. Just because it isn't reported in the news, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You are also forgetting, the Detroit family has had crews in Windsor since it's inception. It's the same handful of families controlling the action, why would they discontinue operations in a city 5 minutes across the border? Tony Palazzolo, (recognize the last name?), looks over the downriver area and Windsor.

Regarding the D'Anna's, your information is outdated. It's no longer called, "Il Pomo d'Oro", the name is changed back to Tirami Su, but the sign reads Tirami Su PIZZERIA, emphasis on the Pizzeria, Tirami Su is smaller in font. It was never truly under new management.

Who told you this info about the D'Annas? I personally know Pietro Ventigmilia, the guy who the D'Annas beat the shit out of (allegedly the beating was overblown, but knowing Pietro before and after, he has changed). And he says personally he is/was intimidated by them, they are the real deal. I also have a family member who runs a business across the street from Tirami Su, and he's heard stories from fellow Italians and "shady" Albanians, about the D'Anna's. They all point to the opposite of what you're saying about them.

When did I claim they "run" the townships? That area is their base of operation. Not only because that area is where they live, but also because that is where the highest concentration of Italians in the Metro area lives, I should know about that, I live there, I can also give you cold hard statistics if you want.

Not only are the D'Anna's being indicted in Michigan, they've also been indicted in Sicily recently as well. I'm talking about Girlamo and Giuseppe, not their cousins and uncles who truly do run Terrasini. Connections to Sicily are present to this day, especially to Terrasini. Jack Tocco donated money to the city to build a church in the last 10 years, in conjunction with the D'Anna's connection. Remember this is the city where most of the Detroit family is rooted from. Also Cinisi and Partinico as well (not claiming current connections to those two cities).

The Detroit family is is certainly not defunct, or close to it today. In the next 25-30 years will be a different story.

I know people in the past have claimed Detroit is all powerful, 60+ full fledged members, crews all over the country, and controlling the politics in the area. That is unrealistic, just as is saying they are defunct. It's somewhere in the middle, approx 40 fully made members, with the potential to have 10 more or so being made in the future. Be mindful many of the current members are older, so that number will stay around 40-45 in the coming years, even with new made members. And yes there have been making ceremonies since Jack Tocco has been out of jail, he isn't dumb and is not dormant. There were crews across the country in the hey-day, but no anymore, the activity is heavily concentrated in the Metro area now. Still some connections to politics, Tony LaPiana on tape with Kwame and Bob Ficano, light sentences to the D'Anna's and others by Judge Caretti, and Jack Tocco's hilarious sentencing by Judge O'Meara after being found guilty of RICO predicates.

Life is gray people, especially in a secret society, which people tend to forget.

Kuci, I'm not attacking you, I'm just posting the information that I know and from what I've been told by many trustworthy people. I appreciate the discussion.

Spot on. I've heard many people mention on here that Providence, Rhode Island has a huge 'Italian' population, yet they only have about 5-10 made guys active in that faction.

Hey Pedasso thanks for the information. A while back there was a thread on here about how Jackie Giacalone pulled Frank Bommaritto's stripes. Any information on this? I am not on the real deal forum which is where the story came from. Would you say that Macombguy had things right with his chart. He seems very knowledgeable. Personally I trust his word over Scott Burnstein and I do not even know Macombguy.

You said there are around 40-50 made guys. I have to assume at least half of those arenot active. Am I off base here?

Providence, RI did in fact have more Italians "per capita" than any other city. Remember, Providence is the size of a postage stamp, so take it with a grain of salt.

I am a member at Real Deal as well. I will say that Macombguy is pretty good, however, Scott Burnstein (who likes to give his resume to everybody who questions what he writes) likes to "sell the hype" about Detroit because he lives there. He is so eager to make sure Detroit is still active and often puts his foot in his mouth. He is a George Anastasia/Jerry Capeci wannabee and often preaches that George Anastasia took him under his wing and is his mentor. Scott is the most arrogant reporter that I have ever seen and likes to brag that he knows all these guys and talks to these guys...They probably look at him like he's an asshole. Scott will tell you there is 50-60 made guys...IMO, it's a stone faced lie. Just because he has written a few books that he "self published" doesn't make him the foremost authority on Detroit. Until I hear the FBI come out and say that Detroit is threat, I have a hard time believing anything that comes out of his mouth.

Here is a thread that Scott Burnstein started last August, this is a funny story:

Det Mob Boss makes visit to Missouri (Thread Topic)

Detroit godfather Jack Tocco was in ST. Louis recently holding some type of charity picnic.

I wonder if Nino Parrino was there?


This is the type of bullshit hype that Scott tries to get going. The fact of the matter is that Jack Tocco was never in St. Louis, as one of the other posters wrote this:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this event wasn't in St. Louis, MO, but in Chelsea, Michigan at the St. Louis Center for disabled people. The Tocco family, and many Italian's in the community are large benefactors of this center. There are quite a few pictures of Jack Tocco and family (and some "family"), at this center during Christmas and other holidays/fundraisers throughout the past few years.

***My take on this is that Scott was trying to get the internet chatter going that Jack Tocco and the defunct St. Louis Crime Family were in collusion. Scott is a salesman and he desperately wants Detroit to be the premier mafia family, which is why he stirs the pot and gets all of his followers excited that Detroit is having some big mafia sit down with Nino Parrino in St, Louis. He's a guy who is trying hard to emulate his hero, George Anastasia and while I give him credit for publishing a few books (through his own publishing house), how well did they sell? None of them netted him much profit nor made a NY Times best seller list.

***And when you question his statements, he will be quick to say "I'm 36 years old and I've published 3 books, my resume speaks for itself." I have learned to not even comment in his threads as they are hype and bullshit. However, I will say that he has a deep knowledge of the history of the Detroit LCN but his claims of new guys getting their buttons and Jackie the Kid being a rising star is a reach.

JCB, you are a two faced poster. You're cordial with him on the RealDeal, and blast him on here.

You honestly think he's trying to get people on his side to sell the hype and buy his books? That's laughable. He's even said it before, he doesn't make dick on his books.

The St. Louis thing is an honest mistake, he should have truly done some more research before posting that. You're overstepping by asserting what you think SCOTT is thinking. Sit down? At what point did he even hint at that?

Arcadia Publishing, Camino Books, and Running Press aren't his own publishing house, so don't lie to try to sway people to your side.

While you're in Massachusetts, researching the long defunct families in Youngstown and Pittsburgh for other researchers because you can't get published yourself, stay out of the Detroit discussions because you truly do not know about current affairs.

Jackie the Kid becoming boss? Totally true, and has been planned for quite some time, there's wiretaps on the subject for Christs sake!

Why wouldn't new guys get their button? I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about new made guys? He's always said on his charts, "Not all of these guys are made, but this is the core of the organization". He may have 60 names, but they're all not made. Charts made by Macomb and myself have tried to narrow it down even more. Scott isn't making people up, these people are involved. The only time Scott's ever pulled the "I'm published card", is when Wiseguy/IvyLeague was derailing every thread and calling out Scott and his credibility, he's only done it a few times that I recall.

Btw, the RealDeal is a closed, invite only forum...how the hell can you say he's trying to stir the pot to sell books? Who to? The 50 active posters, who are smart enough to spot a hack? The majority on the RD believe and trust Scott's info. Especially if you know where he gets most of his info from. You need to rethink your argument, you sound like preteen on a Call of Duty forum.

Hey guys I am not trying to provoke an argument here I was just wondering if Macomb Guys info is good which it sounds like it is. Any truth about the feud between Frank and Jackie. For the record I think Scott is a good researcher I think he just get a little too enthusiastic sometimes.

That was feud was true, once Jackie's father, the infamous Vito "Billy Jack" Giacalone died, Jackie and the Bomb had some falling out over rackets. Now with Jackie being in the acting boss slot, pretty much running everything with Jack Tocco being in name only, Jackie had the power to de-stripe a Capo.

Frankie the Bomb Bommarito didn't help matters though. While he was at the Italian Retirees Social club (in Roseville), he made the remark to Paul Corrado, who wore a wire on a non LCN or organized crime member to get his GAMETAX sentence reduced, and called him a rat. Capo/Future Street Boss Pete "Specs" Tocco was there, and Paul is his guy. Pete Tocco told the Bomb to shut it, and The Bomb told him to fuck off, or something to that regard and he was banned from the club. So he was on the outs with both families who hold the power, the Tocco's and Giacalone's.

Now the Bomb was given some rackets back, a lucrative multi-state catalytic converter ring. He's still a soldier.

Macomb is extremely thorough in his research, he is definitely a great poster. Unlike a lot of keyboard jockeys on these organized crimes sites, who call themselves "experts", who give up once they can't find anything off of Google or Wikipedia, Macomb searches databases whether they be local, state, federal etc. and he pays to view some things, so he's uncovered a ton of unreported busts and associates.

His chart was missing a few key guys, but him and I separately pretty much came up with a similar chart.

I wouldn't be so quick to discredit Scott. He is still by far THE expert on Detroit. You know how we knew about the Frank Bommario-Jack Giacalone beef? Scott knows Frankie the Bomb, they were taping a reality show together, no joke. Scott also knows a lot of federal contacts. Current and retired FBI agents, and Keith Corbett, the former Federal Organized Crime prosecutor out of Detroit. He is of course, not infallible, no one is.

When it comes to made guys 30-40 active, 10-12 inactive. So in total 40-50. That's also the number Scott has personally told me the FBI told him (well actually they said 40-55). And I really do believe him, he has no reason to lie to me. Remember a lot of these guys are old, ready to die or retire soon. However, there is at least one group of younger-ish guys (8-12), who have the potential to be made in the near future. After that, in approximately 20 years, it will be a much different landscape.

Hope that helped!

Hi Pedasso,

Your defense of Scott is admirable. Scott is well aware that I disagree with some of his information, he's a reporter/writer, so he understands that there will be critics of the information he provides. I will say that "I stand corrected" on his publisher, as "most" local mob authors typically use a self publishing website to publish their books because there just isn't a demand for mob books like there used to be. FYI-I'm not trying to get myself published, I am in very good shape financially and am able to provide a nice life for my family, plus I have a 19 month old that I have to chase around, so time is not on my side. I do research for several mob authors as a hobby, I have no intention of being an author, as I work in Healthcare and it is a 24/7 field.

I know Jackie the Kid is the new boss, what I meant by my statement was that Scott portrays him as a "rising star." My question is, a rising star of what? A rising star of a family that is on the decline? While I appreciate your support of Scott's information, it doesn't mean that everybody has to agree with Scott or your point of view. I have always said that Scott is "no doubt" the expert historian on Detroit and has more knowledge than anybody on the subject.

FYI-From personal experience with Scott, he has pulled the I'm published card with me and it obviously didn't go over well. Also, I have been a critic of Jerry Capeci and George Anastasia, so it's not like I have singled out Scott. Ironically, one of the authors I research for used to work for Jerry Capeci and is good friends with him and I have not made it a secret. Anytime a person is a public figure, whether an author, a reporter, a U.S. Attorney, they are subject to both sides of the equation; some people believe every word they say and some people don't. All I did was point out some inaccuracies in statements that he has made pertaining to specific subjects.

Also, I find it amusing that on Real Deal so many "active posters" were very quick to shit all over Matt Birbeck for his new book, The Quiet Don. Matt even took the time to come on the forum to answer some questions. While I did read several inaccuracies in his "published" book, I at least had the balls to email him personally to make him aware of a few fallacies and inaccurate statements....funny, I don't see anybody jumping to his defense anywhere on the forum. The same goes for Scott Dietche, I've read all his books and they were fantastic in my opinion, but I'm sure Scott D has received critical feedback in his work.

You seem to take it very personally, almost like I insulted your work. I don't know you, but all I was doing was agreeing with another poster who said that they'd believe Macombguy over Scott Burnstein...and I shared some inaccuracies to support the aforementioned statement. I'm very glad to know that the "majority" of RD posters love Scott...although nobody knows him personally, I find it odd...Scott is "an asset" to RD and I will reiterate that he is hands down the most well versed historian on Detroit, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with "everything" he states. I believe his knowledge of the past Detroit Family, I just don't believe the family is on the rise and the "theory" that they are smarter than everybody else, a phenomenon that has been perpetuated by his following.

I am truly happy for Scott's success, as I wish nobody any harm. I'm sure Scott has received critical feedback as well, as that is part of being in the public eye. With that said, I thank you for allowing me to answer your post in an honest, straight forward manner. Welcome to this forum and I hope you find this forum helpful in the areas of your interest.

Warm Regards,

JCB1977

JCB,

I apologize for coming off as attacking you.

It may sound personal, because to a degree it is. Like you, I have a main field of research, in my case Detroit, but I have no intention of being published. I have past family connections to the organization, and do have some current knowledge.

When it comes to my defense of Scott, I am in more in defense of his information, than the man himself. Scott is a good guy, I do not know him on personal basis, but have shared some emails. The info he has given to me, and has put out on the RD and elsewhere, has for the most part checked out. I have given him some critical feedback in the past. He has had many family connections incorrect in the past, as well as areas of operation, and the extent certain members or connected people are involved. Overall, his information is solid, to discredit him because of a few inconsistencies or errors is not wise in my opinion. I am not a follower or a "groupie" of Scott, I however do look towards him as a reliable source of information.

My personal belief, and that I have stated before, is this is the peak of the organization (as in the highest in members and activity currently), at it's present state; it is all downhill from here. People tend to get hung up on numbers, whether the organization has 20 or 60 members, it is still here, and still active.

Thank you for your professional response, which is lacking on many of these sites.

Hi Pedasso,

No need to apologize. I began researching this stuff when I found out my Uncle ran the rackets in Youngstown for almost 40 years and had a few other family members that were murdered in mob wars between Cleveland & Pittsburgh. I am not a professional writer, have no interest at this point in publishing anything. I agree that Scott's information is as solid as it gets in most cases, I just tend to disagree with the way he presents the Detroit Family. I have had private dialog with him regarding this...I'll leave it at that.

Macombguy provides info from "a different perspective" and I like his style. As for Scott, I do not know him so it is hard to form an opinion on him on a personal level, but I know that he is an mob enthusiast like the rest of us, which I can truly appreciate. Sometimes on these boards, tone is difficult to gauge. For the record, I am a "huge fan" of the Midwest Crime Families, as I grew up in Ohio in the suburbs of Youngstown, so I appreciate everything the rust belt provided for us and find their crime families to be the most interesting.

Again, welcome to the board as I'm sure your information on Detroit will be greatly appreciated by many of the Midwest posters.

Warm Regards,

JCB1977

Thanks for all of the information guys. Pedasso thank you so much for that information I have been wondering about that for close to a year. One more question. Is Tony La Piana still an active capo? I heard he might be serving in a more administrative role now. Speculation on my part.

I would say a lot of wise guys from providence, boston, new hampshire, etc try to work their way to nyc, since its the biggest lcn city in
he US. Detroit is in the midwest far from the other families. I dont think you can compare the italian population as far as wiseguys. Detroit guys are dedicated to Detroit. A lot of providence guys probaly want to be in ny