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The real strength of US Mafia ?
#749008
11/19/13 06:58 AM
11/19/13 06:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,255 naples,italy
furio_from_naples
OP
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OP
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,255
naples,italy
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That the American Mafia is in decline, it's a foregone conclusion. Now only the families of the east coast retain a certain degree of power: in addition to the 5 families of New York, to Decavalcantes of New Jersey, the the Patriarcas of Boston and the Mafia in Philadelphia, other families or are extinct or are on the way to extinction . I just wanted to know what is numerically the total strength of the American Mafia, I will take the numbers of made man from Wikipedia, and please, do not let close the post by SC, because continue to insult each other.
Genovese 250-300 made men Gambino 180-220 made men Lucchese 100-120 made men Bonanno 100-130 made men Colombo 90-110 made men
Buffalo 40 made man Chicago Outfit 30 made men Cleveland 15-20+ made men Detroit Partnership 40-50+ made man Kansas City 15+ made members Los Angeles 15-20 made men (2003 estimate) Milwaukee 10 made men Patriarca 30 made men DeCavalcante 40 made men Philadelphia 50 made men
New York about 720-880 made men Outside NY 270-300 made men
Total 990-1180 made men
if anyone has any corrections to do, go ahead
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#749128
11/19/13 05:12 PM
11/19/13 05:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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That the American Mafia is in decline, it's a foregone conclusion. Now only the families of the east coast retain a certain degree of power: in addition to the 5 families of New York, to Decavalcantes of New Jersey, the the Patriarcas of Boston and the Mafia in Philadelphia, other families or are extinct or are on the way to extinction . I just wanted to know what is numerically the total strength of the American Mafia, I will take the numbers of made man from Wikipedia, and please, do not let close the post by SC, because continue to insult each other.
Genovese 250-300 made men Gambino 180-220 made men Lucchese 100-120 made men Bonanno 100-130 made men Colombo 90-110 made men
Buffalo 40 made man Chicago Outfit 30 made men Cleveland 15-20+ made men Detroit Partnership 40-50+ made man Kansas City 15+ made members Los Angeles 15-20 made men (2003 estimate) Milwaukee 10 made men Patriarca 30 made men DeCavalcante 40 made men Philadelphia 50 made men
New York about 720-880 made men Outside NY 270-300 made men
Total 990-1180 made men
if anyone has any corrections to do, go ahead A lot of those are rather inflated. Genovese and Gambino each have about 200 or so. Luccheses, Colombos, and Bonannos each have about 100 or so. It's approximately 700-750 members in New York. The New Jersey, New England, and Philadelphia families each have about 40-50 members. Chicago has 25-30. Buffalo has about 20 at this point. Detroit somewhere between 20-30. As I've said, I'd be surprised if Kansas City is over 15 at this point. All the other families are under 10 at this point. Some down to 1 or 2. The total membership in the U.S. is approximately 1,000. Simply assuming 10 associates for each member isn't always correct. Member to associate ratios vary from family to family. And the estimates vary according to how one defines an associate anyway.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#749138
11/19/13 05:26 PM
11/19/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111 New Jersey
Dellacroce
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
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That the American Mafia is in decline, it's a foregone conclusion. Now only the families of the east coast retain a certain degree of power: in addition to the 5 families of New York, to Decavalcantes of New Jersey, the the Patriarcas of Boston and the Mafia in Philadelphia, other families or are extinct or are on the way to extinction . I just wanted to know what is numerically the total strength of the American Mafia, I will take the numbers of made man from Wikipedia, and please, do not let close the post by SC, because continue to insult each other.
Genovese 250-300 made men Gambino 180-220 made men Lucchese 100-120 made men Bonanno 100-130 made men Colombo 90-110 made men
Buffalo 40 made man Chicago Outfit 30 made men Cleveland 15-20+ made men Detroit Partnership 40-50+ made man Kansas City 15+ made members Los Angeles 15-20 made men (2003 estimate) Milwaukee 10 made men Patriarca 30 made men DeCavalcante 40 made men Philadelphia 50 made men
New York about 720-880 made men Outside NY 270-300 made men
Total 990-1180 made men
if anyone has any corrections to do, go ahead A lot of those are rather inflated. Genovese and Gambino each have about 200 or so. Luccheses, Colombos, and Bonannos each have about 100 or so. It's approximately 700-750 members in New York. The New Jersey, New England, and Philadelphia families each have about 40-50 members. Chicago has 25-30. Buffalo has about 20 at this point. Detroit somewhere between 20-30. As I've said, I'd be surprised if Kansas City is over 15 at this point. All the other families are under 10 at this point. Some down to 1 or 2. The total membership in the U.S. is approximately 1,000. Simply assuming 10 associates for each member isn't always correct. Member to associate ratios vary from family to family. And the estimates vary according to how one defines an associate anyway. it seems that, at least with the five families, that most of the official estimates have it averaged out to around 5 associates per made guy, i.e the colombos having about 100 made guys with roughly 500 associates and the gambinos and genoveses having around 200 made guys with roughly 1000 associates, but like you said its all about how an associate is defined.
"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."
-Jordan Belfort
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: Dellacroce]
#749141
11/19/13 05:35 PM
11/19/13 05:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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but like you said its all about how an associate is defined. Law Enforcement seems to have a much looser definition of "associate" than I'm comfortable with. I remember talking about sports offices with Ivy awhile back. He seemed to be in agreement with the Feds that if you're a mob connected office laying off bets to an independent office, then that makes the independent office connected by extension. And I say that's bullshit. I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. You can't make the jump and call him connected just because half-a-wiseguy calls him at three minutes to one on Sunday afternoon to lay off the Packers. You can ruin a guy's life by hanging that label on him when it doesn't fit. @Ivy: I'm not trying to wake up an old and tired argument. You know me better than that. I'm just using an old debate to make a point to Dellacroce .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#749143
11/19/13 05:44 PM
11/19/13 05:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,097 Cajunland
LaLouisiane
Cajun Mafia
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Cajun Mafia
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,097
Cajunland
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. Granted I'm from Louisiana and since there is no LCN here I wouldn't know first hand on the kick ups that the books do up north but I wouldn't feel comfortable having to include others in a Gambling Operation. 1. You gotta worry about them stealing or skimming off the weeks take, 2. If they screw up a bet by either not giving the right spread, your still binded to that if the bettor win's big. 3. The more people involved that's the more ways the profit has to be split, which means thats the more customers that you have to take in, which means a bigger chance youll get caught. Just my Opinion.....
"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"
"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: LaLouisiane]
#749144
11/19/13 05:50 PM
11/19/13 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296 Throggs Neck
pizzaboy
The Fuckin Doctor
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The Fuckin Doctor
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. When they come knockin, their biggest selling point is, BY FAR, this line of bullshit: You come with us and you'll never have to worry about getting stiffed again because people will know you're with us and they'll fear you now. Yeah, until you ask them to help you collect from some brokester who's not afraid to call the cops. Then they tell you it's not their problem. And if they ARE willing to help collect, it's always for a fifty-fifty split. At the very least .
"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#749145
11/19/13 05:56 PM
11/19/13 05:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
NightOwl
BANNED
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BANNED
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. When they come knockin, their biggest selling point is, BY FAR, this line of bullshit: You come with us and you'll never have to worry about getting stiffed again because people will know you're with us and they'll fear you now. Yeah, until you ask them to help you collect from some brokester who's not afraid to call the cops. Then they tell you it's not their problem. And if they ARE willing to help collect, it's always for a fifty-fifty split. At the very least . If I have a problem I ask one of my friend who has a small car lot to let me borrow a car that's not familiar with anyone then call up my homie who has a few black soliders to take care of the business
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: furio_from_naples]
#749148
11/19/13 06:09 PM
11/19/13 06:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
NightOwl
BANNED
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BANNED
Button
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: Skinny]
#749363
11/20/13 07:16 PM
11/20/13 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 368
tt120
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 368
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There's really no way the Feds can get a good count on associates. An associate is a guy on the record with a family. But a family can claim any guy that does business with them. Picture Elvis Dalessio and his 50 odd agents, Elvis was claimed by prisco, so Elvis is a west side associate. Now his agents may not even know who they report to, they are doing biz under a genovese associate. Which means by extension they're associating and working for a family. Associates aren't all the same, a guy who lost a lot in sports runs to a guy to protect him while he pays the debts back, TECHNICALLY he's an associate. But he's on the same level as a associate who has his own crew and has a million in loans on the street Always felt a little sketchy on the law's definition of 'associate' and this is the perfect example of why. You nailed it. There was another thread about the younger crews in the 90s (bath ave, tanglewood boys, etc..) earlier and you can use that as another example. Mike DeRosa was an associate, on the record of Jimmy Galione and helped manage the drug ring they had going. But were DeRosa's street level dealers who probably never even spoke with Galione associates? What about the dealers who dealt in even smaller quantities, who bought their weight from DeRosa's underlings... could they be associates? You get into that type of branching off and you'll come up with estimates of thousands of associates, which is ridiculous. Same guys with stuff like "x amount of associates per made guy." there could be a made guy with zero. it's impossible to pin down I'd say a good definition of associate is an active, un-made member on the record with a made guy who is integral in that made guy's operations and has direct dealings
Last edited by tt120; 11/20/13 07:20 PM.
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#749442
11/21/13 04:20 AM
11/21/13 04:20 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
Ted
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,113
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. When they come knockin, their biggest selling point is, BY FAR, this line of bullshit: You come with us and you'll never have to worry about getting stiffed again because people will know you're with us and they'll fear you now. Yeah, until you ask them to help you collect from some brokester who's not afraid to call the cops. Then they tell you it's not their problem. And if they ARE willing to help collect, it's always for a fifty-fifty split. At the very least . A mob-affiliated bookie is less likely to get stiffed than a non-affiliated one. But I don't think that's the main selling point. "Kick up to us or else..." is a more effective selling point.
"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: Dellacroce]
#749520
11/21/13 12:52 PM
11/21/13 12:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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it seems that, at least with the five families, that most of the official estimates have it averaged out to around 5 associates per made guy, i.e the colombos having about 100 made guys with roughly 500 associates and the gambinos and genoveses having around 200 made guys with roughly 1000 associates, but like you said its all about how an associate is defined. I've said many times that I don't put much stock in associate estimates. But the latest member-to-associate ratios are 1:5 in New York and Chicago, 1:2 in New England and Philadelphia, and 1:1 in New Jersey. at what point in time would you say "The Mafia" had all the money in the US? 1920? The LCN never had "all the money," as in controlled all the crime in the country; though many old news reports almost made it sound like it did. However, it had about a 50 year window - from the 1930's to the 1980's - where it was more or less the sole national power in organized crime. The Irish and Jewish groups had largely gone by the wayside and the newer groups like the South Americans, Russians, Asians, etc. weren't a major factor yet.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: Snakes]
#749685
11/22/13 12:26 AM
11/22/13 12:26 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 757
Extortion
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 757
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Hope you enjoyed your time here. I enjoyed your dad here
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: pizzaboy]
#749714
11/22/13 10:53 AM
11/22/13 10:53 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. When they come knockin, their biggest selling point is, BY FAR, this line of bullshit: You come with us and you'll never have to worry about getting stiffed again because people will know you're with us and they'll fear you now. Yeah, until you ask them to help you collect from some brokester who's not afraid to call the cops. Then they tell you it's not their problem. And if they ARE willing to help collect, it's always for a fifty-fifty split. At the very least . seen it first hand...a buddy of mine was on a half sheet...only went with them because he thought they would help collect..when a kid who owned a package store locally stiffed my friend for 5k my friend got threatened with coming up with it or else.......
When Interpol?
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Re: The real strength of US Mafia ?
[Re: cheech]
#749717
11/22/13 10:58 AM
11/22/13 10:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
NightOwl
BANNED
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BANNED
Button
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 76
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I'm around sportsbooks all my life, and if a guy manages to stay independent, then good for him. I have never understood why any sports book would want to become affiliated, unless of course coerced to pay up. When they come knockin, their biggest selling point is, BY FAR, this line of bullshit: You come with us and you'll never have to worry about getting stiffed again because people will know you're with us and they'll fear you now. f. Yeah, until you ask them to help you collect from some brokester who's not afraid to call the cops. Then they tell you it's not their problem. And if they ARE willing to help collect, it's always for a fifty-fifty split. At the very least . seen it first hand...a buddy of mine was on a half sheet...only went with them because he thought they would help collect..when a kid who owned a package store locally stiffed my friend for 5k my friend got threatened with coming up with it or else....... OR ELSE Fuck them I'd jut call the cops and have someone beat them up if I didn't do it mysel
Last edited by NightOwl; 11/22/13 10:59 AM.
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