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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#746305
10/30/13 02:22 AM
10/30/13 02:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I think Carmine got killed because basically since the banana's war the bonnano's had been splintered, so they oked the hit on carmine to consolidate that family and probably because rusty was willing to cut the other families in on a bigger piece of the bonnano drug trade than carmine would have been.
Carmine wanted to keep whatever the bonnano's had going to himself, rusty sold some of it off for commission approval to be boss. He likely had massino make a deal with zips and carmine ends up on the floor of the restuarant patio. I don't know, just a theory that would seem consistant with operations in that world I don´t understand your argument. Why would Galante, a member of the Bonanno Family, be obligated to share profits with other bosses? The ones involved with the importation and selling of heroin were caught by LE later in the 1980s. All of them were so called zips, either made members of/associates of the Bonanno Family or associates of the Gambino Family. Most of them had ties to Sicilian Mafia clans. To my knowledge, this group did not share the drug profits with other NY bosses. Not even after the Galante killing. Persico, Corallo, Castellano and Gigante did not receive drug profits from this group. It may have been a case of sharing the drug trade in general, i.e. enough drug money to go around rather than Galante supposedly wanting to take it all over.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#746317
10/30/13 04:27 AM
10/30/13 04:27 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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Yeah, I think it wasn't any more complicated than Rusty asking the Commission permission to off Galante and the Commission approving, ostensibly because Rastelli was someone the other families could better work with as boss. I admit the sharing of money between the 5 families is confusing. But there was a sharing of profits with the concrete club. And the windows scam. And the gasoline tax scam. So why not drugs? This is an excellent example of NOT sharing profits actually. The Bonanno Family was not involved with the concrete club. They were not involved with the window scam. They did not receive shared profits from these rackets. Same thing with the drugs. If you are not in on it, don´t expect to receive profits from it. The theory of Galante being killed because he did not want to share his drug profits with other bosses is without merit. The theory holds no water. The heroin business that the group, I mentioned above, was involved with skyrocked AFTER the Galante killing. It looks to me that Galante had actually hindered his guys, at least to some extent, from getting into drugs. At the time of his murder, Galante was out on parole. The last few years in his life, he was basically in and out of jail for violations of his parole restrictions. He was constantly being watched by LE who followed his every move. Why was he in and out of jail? For consorting with known criminals and for not having reported to his parole officer regulary as he was supposed to when released from prison in 1974. During these kind of circumstances, do you guys really think he had the nerves of getting back into the heroin business, a crime that would put his ass behind bars for another ten years just for uttering the letter "H"? I don´t think so. If heroin was the cause of Galante´s murder, it was because he partly held his guys back. I believe Galante was killed simply because of a power struggle with Rastelli, the official boss at the time. Galante, the acting boss, ran the Family as it pleased him, which pissed Rastelli off. Removing Galante pleased the zips in a great way.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#746320
10/30/13 04:44 AM
10/30/13 04:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
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Anyone got any info on the Cherry Hill Gambino's?
John Gambino. His brothers.
What size crew?
Are they still active?
Etc etc.
Thanks in advance. I have an excellent report on the Cherry Hill Gambinos. But it´s on a pdf file. I can´t post it here and I can´t copy and paste the text. Neither can I upload it to my photobucket. Any suggestions on what to do? You can do the first part of these suggestions host it on another site to allow people to download it instead of posting - http://www.iorgsoft.com/PDF/post-pdf-to-discussion-forum.html Or any of the other ones of course,it mentions photobucket but the article is pretty old i think and photobucket isn't the same so maybe try flickr or tinypic?
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#746383
10/30/13 01:06 PM
10/30/13 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan
OP
Capo
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OP
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Posts: 486
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This is an excellent example of NOT sharing profits actually. The Bonanno Family was not involved with the concrete club. They were not involved with the window scam. They did not receive shared profits from these rackets.
Excellent point. However, I believe the only reason the Bonannos were excluded was because they lost their commission seat during that period. The Genovese, Gambino, Lucchese, and Colombo definitely shared profits from the concrete and window schemes because they were indicted for them in highly publicized trials. The Concrete Club was prosecuted under RICO and resulted in 4 dons going away for life. Rusty was actually indicted in this trial, but wasn't prosecuted when Giuliani discovered the Bonannos were kicked off the commission. That was ironic since Joe Bonanno's book led to the problems for the other 4 families. Pete Savino and Fat Pete Chiodo were witnesses in the Windows Cartel trial, which indicted the 4 commission members. I believe Peter Gotti/Gambinos were acquitted but the other 3 families had high ranking members convicted. Regarding the gasoline racket, the Gambinos, Genovese, Luccheses and Colombos (I believe Michael Franzese receives most of the credit for this scam) were involved- either they shared the racket as a group, or they each got their own Russian partner and worked peacefully. The theory of Galante being killed because he did not want to share his drug profits with other bosses is without merit. The theory holds no water.
You very well could be correct. We know that what has been reported about the mob is not always accurate- an obvious example being the thread title. However, we should be able to agree that the vast majority of reports about Galante's death attributes his refusal to share drug profits as one of the main reasons for his murder (along with a power struggle with Rastelli). Maybe this is an example of what Turnbull posted on the previous page about writers reprinting rumors from book to book.
You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#746468
10/30/13 11:46 PM
10/30/13 11:46 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,108
Giancarlo
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 2,108
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I have an excellent report on the Cherry Hill Gambinos. But it´s on a pdf file. I can´t post it here and I can´t copy and paste the text. Neither can I upload it to my photobucket. Any suggestions on what to do? Thanks! Alright, Let´s see if this works... The pages below is from a report presented at the hearings of the committee on the judiciary united state senate ninety-eight congress on organized crime in 1983. If anyone is interested you can download the entire 1983 report at : https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/92732NCJRS.pdfIt's a 28 MB pdf file.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: Moe_Tilden]
#773212
04/15/14 10:03 PM
04/15/14 10:03 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 999
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Massino had a lot of sway; very cunning and ruthless. Wouldn't Massino want him dead so he could wait out Rastelli's death and take over from him? Not likely because galante was nearly 10 years older than rastelli. Massino would rather plot against rastelli and wait for galante to die
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#773213
04/15/14 10:12 PM
04/15/14 10:12 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 999
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The heroin business that the group, I mentioned above, was involved with skyrocked AFTER the Galante killing. It looks to me that Galante had actually hindered his guys, at least to some extent, from getting into drugs. At the time of his murder, Galante was out on parole. The last few years in his life, he was basically in and out of jail for violations of his parole restrictions. He was constantly being watched by LE who followed his every move. Why was he in and out of jail? For consorting with known criminals and for not having reported to his parole officer regulary as he was supposed to when released from prison in 1974. During these kind of circumstances, do you guys really think he had the nerves of getting back into the heroin business, a crime that would put his ass behind bars for another ten years just for uttering the letter "H"? I don´t think so. If heroin was the cause of Galante´s murder, it was because he partly held his guys back.
Nope. Galante was a drug dealer his entire mafia career. Whether he was killed for not sharing is not known. What is known is that he brought the zips over to deal drugs. There was no other reason to bring them over. Could the increase in heroin dealing in the 80's be due to them building more drug routes and distribution channels over time? It takes time to set those things up
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: mulberry]
#773214
04/16/14 12:19 AM
04/16/14 12:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
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Secret location (WITSEC)
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The heroin business that the group, I mentioned above, was involved with skyrocked AFTER the Galante killing. It looks to me that Galante had actually hindered his guys, at least to some extent, from getting into drugs. At the time of his murder, Galante was out on parole. The last few years in his life, he was basically in and out of jail for violations of his parole restrictions. He was constantly being watched by LE who followed his every move. Why was he in and out of jail? For consorting with known criminals and for not having reported to his parole officer regulary as he was supposed to when released from prison in 1974. During these kind of circumstances, do you guys really think he had the nerves of getting back into the heroin business, a crime that would put his ass behind bars for another ten years just for uttering the letter "H"? I don´t think so. If heroin was the cause of Galante´s murder, it was because he partly held his guys back.
Nope. Galante was a drug dealer his entire mafia career. Whether he was killed for not sharing is not known. What is known is that he brought the zips over to deal drugs. There was no other reason to bring them over. Could the increase in heroin dealing in the 80's be due to them building more drug routes and distribution channels over time? It takes time to set those things up That is the genaral belief, yes. But Mafia history is riddled with false information and wrong assumptions. It only takes a quick glance at MafiaWiki to see that most of the info presented there is without merit. If anybody brought over zips, it was Gambino while he was alive. Galante was in prison when, for example, Bonventre and Baldo Amato, by the looks of it, voluntarily came over. There is simply no proof, regardless of what MafiaWiki says, that Galante organized the transfer of these guys. These two guys were both Castellammaresi and Bonventre had family as former Bonanno members, possibly Amato too. So naturally they were drawn to and later ended up with Galante. On here, use the search function, I´ve posted a report where Luigi Ronsisvalle´s testimony can be read. He says that some Siclians, from the Castellammaresi region, were brought over in the mid 1960s to fight in the "Bananas war", against Joe Bonanno. And that these guys were brought over by Giuseppe Buccelato. If you are familiar with the Bonanno/Bonventre/Magaddino-Buccelato family feud of the early 1900s, you will see that Ronsisvalle´s testimony makes sense. Most of the Families were engaged in drug trafficking. See for example my thread, on some of the major drug trials of the 1960s, posted some time ago. They all had established heroin pipelines that certainly lasted way into the 1970s. The myth of Galante being the one who had all these pipelines tied up in his name is an urban legend that needs to be buried once and for all. He did not control the Lucchese´s drug trafficking operations. He did not control the Gambino´s drug trafficking operations and he did not control the Genovese´s drug trafficking operations. Believing that Galante was the drug lord and contolled all these Familiies drug pipe lines is ridiculous. Therefore the claim "that Galante didn´t want to share drug profits with other bosses" is totally groundless. If Galante was murdered over drugs, it´s more likely that the reason was because he held factions within the Bonannos back, hindering them from engaging in drug trafficking and not because he wasn´t willing to share drug profits with other bosses. As I´ve said before, it was, in some sense, his murder that paved the way for the zip´s heavy involvement with the heroin trade. Read up on the Pizza Connection case which is described as the biggest heroin operation the Mafia was involved with ever, at least up til that date.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#773348
04/16/14 10:51 PM
04/16/14 10:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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^^^Well, that´s kinda my point, isn´t it? Have you read this thread from the top? Most Families were into the drug trade. If Galante had his stuff going on, why would he have felt obligated to share HIS drug profits with other bosses? In books after books and articles after articles found on the net, this reason for his killing is mentioned. But the claim is without merit. Do you see what I´m trying to say? Do you see my point?
You are saying that Galante brought in the zips. So it´s actually you that needs to show proof of what you are claiming. Not me. This is methaphorically speaking: Two friends (person A and person B) are sitting on a coach, watching tv. Person A says "Look in the corner over there. There´s a alien from planet drk sitting and smoking weed" But there is nothing there, just air. So person B says "No, you are imagining stuff. Nobody is sitting there smoking weed." And person A is saying "Well, prove to me that there is nothing there and that it´s only my mind playing tricks on me". How is person B supposed to prove that there is only air in that corner?
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#773352
04/17/14 03:59 AM
04/17/14 03:59 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 21
jimmerz
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 21
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"In 1956 Carmine Galente was caught speeding coming from or going tot he 56 commission meeting. there was a bid push by local political people to get the charges dropped, this led to an association with Joe Barberra, and as a result the police started keeping an eye on him.
The police overheard Joe jr renting rooms at a local hotel in 57 and figured something was up...." -Dooley36
"I think Croswell did have some kind of a personal beef with LaBarbera. Reading through some of the articles published on the raid and the interviews on him, he does come across as a braggart. Like he finally got his long sought 15 minutes in fame, giving him a great personal satisfaction and at the same time getting the chance to nail LaBarbera. That´s the feeling I get. He was aware of the mobster meeting that had taken place the year before but that had slipped through his hands. From time to time, he was conducting surveillance on the LaBarbera estate. So I doubt that there was a tip off." - HairyKnuckles
As we all know, the widely publicized story on Apalachin, was that Croswell observed all these big black cars rolling through town, and followed them to Joe Barbaras house, then called in for backup, etc.
Over the past couple of weeks, I've done a ton of reading and background searching on Carmine Galante. As these guys mentioned above, there was a lot more backstory with Croswell. I just read recently (Cant recall now exactly where, but I believe it was in Galantes FBI file, in the "FBI Vault"/Reading room), about Galantes speeding ticket, the involvement of some highly influential politicians in trying to get this ticket squashed, and the Pols involvement drawing the attention of not only the State Police, but the FBI. Supposedly Croswell was keeping regular contact with the FBI, and it was they that tipped Croswell to the upcoming summit at Joe Barbaras house. This whole spiel about Croswell just being an "observant" trooper was a cover story.
I'll try and dig up the relevant parts of this story either later today, or this evening and post back with it.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#773410
04/17/14 03:03 PM
04/17/14 03:03 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
mulberry
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
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^^^Well, that´s kinda my point, isn´t it? Have you read this thread from the top? Most Families were into the drug trade. If Galante had his stuff going on, why would he have felt obligated to share HIS drug profits with other bosses? In books after books and articles after articles found on the net, this reason for his killing is mentioned. But the claim is without merit. Do you see what I´m trying to say? Do you see my point?
You are saying that Galante brought in the zips. So it´s actually you that needs to show proof of what you are claiming. Not me. This is methaphorically speaking: Two friends (person A and person B) are sitting on a coach, watching tv. Person A says "Look in the corner over there. There´s a alien from planet drk sitting and smoking weed" But there is nothing there, just air. So person B says "No, you are imagining stuff. Nobody is sitting there smoking weed." And person A is saying "Well, prove to me that there is nothing there and that it´s only my mind playing tricks on me". How is person B supposed to prove that there is only air in that corner? It was Lefty Ruggiero who told Joe Pistone that Galante brought Zips over. Unless you know more about the Bonannos during the 1970's than an actual made member at the time, I'll take his word over yours that Galante brought Zips over into the Bonanno family. Now why don't you prove that Galante was hindering the family from dealing drugs as you claimed?
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: mulberry]
#773441
04/17/14 09:21 PM
04/17/14 09:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
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^^^Well, that´s kinda my point, isn´t it? Have you read this thread from the top? Most Families were into the drug trade. If Galante had his stuff going on, why would he have felt obligated to share HIS drug profits with other bosses? In books after books and articles after articles found on the net, this reason for his killing is mentioned. But the claim is without merit. Do you see what I´m trying to say? Do you see my point?
You are saying that Galante brought in the zips. So it´s actually you that needs to show proof of what you are claiming. Not me. This is methaphorically speaking: Two friends (person A and person B) are sitting on a coach, watching tv. Person A says "Look in the corner over there. There´s a alien from planet drk sitting and smoking weed" But there is nothing there, just air. So person B says "No, you are imagining stuff. Nobody is sitting there smoking weed." And person A is saying "Well, prove to me that there is nothing there and that it´s only my mind playing tricks on me". How is person B supposed to prove that there is only air in that corner? It was Lefty Ruggiero who told Joe Pistone that Galante brought Zips over. Unless you know more about the Bonannos during the 1970's than an actual made member at the time, I'll take his word over yours that Galante brought Zips over into the Bonanno family. Now why don't you prove that Galante was hindering the family from dealing drugs as you claimed? It was actually Mirra who first pointed them out to Pistone, not Lefty. And he doesn´t say specifically that Galante was the one who was bringing them over, only that Galante used them for drug dealing and carrying out hits. Besides, everything Mirra told Pistone, or Lefty by that matter, must not automatically be considered the truth or be considered as proof. Hearing stuff on the street is sometimes called "this is how a rumor gets started". I think Pistone said in one of his books that Lefty, a footsoldier basically, was prone to talk about things that was over his head. He did this to impress people. I´d recommend you to read Ronsisvalle´s testimony by the way. His testimony in regards to by who and why some zips were brought over, could be considered as proof, at least in a legal court, because it´s a sworn testimony. There was certainly heroin dealing going on with the Bonannos before the Galante murder. But, and I´ve said this a couple of times, it was AFTER the hit that the heroin trade sky rocketed. It looks like Galante, at least to an extent, prevented some factions within his group from getting too heavily involved. Perhaps that´s why the zips, in the end, turned on him? And one more thing that needs to be pointed out. It may not have been the heroin trade that actually caused the Galante hit. A power struggle with Rastelli could very well have been the main reason behind the Galante murder.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: barry]
#773647
04/20/14 09:19 AM
04/20/14 09:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
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ok hairy i understand your point .but why was Bruno and other's congradulated(on video) It looks like Rastelli had turned to the Commission for support. Not necessarily to get a sanction for the hit, but to have them step in if a new Bonanno internal war would break out. It´s possible that the Commission appointed Dellacroce to supervise the hit, and ordered that the hitters report to him right after the murder. Cannone (Bonanno consigliere) was also seen at the Ravenite when Bruno arrived. Rastelli only had a few captains he could trust. Two of them (Sonny Red and Giaccone, together with Cannone) were immediately after the hit put on a ruling panel to run the Family while Rastelli was in jail. Almost half of the captains (and the underboss) were demoted by Rastelli and replaced by men who supported him. And Funzi told moey (lilo's cuz )"tell him to come see me" I don´t know about this quote. Is this from Tieri´s FBI files?
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: LittleMan]
#773934
04/23/14 11:14 AM
04/23/14 11:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
baldo
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 281
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According to Pistone, Galante was killed because he wasn't considered a legitimate boss which was holding back the zips from dealing more heroin. In order to continue their heroin pipeline, they had to side with the boss the commission recognized (Rastelli). See page 143: http://books.google.com/books?id=fhBwVP1...%20&f=falseThis is according to Pistone, so take it as you will. Does give credence to Hairy's theory, however.
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: Giancarlo]
#773942
04/23/14 12:10 PM
04/23/14 12:10 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech
Underboss
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Underboss
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Posts: 1,845
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I have an excellent report on the Cherry Hill Gambinos. But it´s on a pdf file. I can´t post it here and I can´t copy and paste the text. Neither can I upload it to my photobucket. Any suggestions on what to do? Thanks! Alright, Let´s see if this works... The pages below is from a report presented at the hearings of the committee on the judiciary united state senate ninety-eight congress on organized crime in 1983. If anyone is interested you can download the entire 1983 report at : https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/92732NCJRS.pdfIt's a 28 MB pdf file. awesome thanks for this and thanks to hairyknuckles
When Interpol?
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Re: Vito Genovese- Boss of bosses?
[Re: baldo]
#774029
04/23/14 11:29 PM
04/23/14 11:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418 Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles
Underboss
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Underboss
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According to Pistone, Galante was killed because he wasn't considered a legitimate boss which was holding back the zips from dealing more heroin. In order to continue their heroin pipeline, they had to side with the boss the commission recognized (Rastelli). See page 143: http://books.google.com/books?id=fhBwVP1...%20&f=falseThis is according to Pistone, so take it as you will. Does give credence to Hairy's theory, however. Thanks for finding and posting the link. My understanding of what Pistone is saying is that he could not testify about what he considered to be a vital part of the main reason why Galante was killed. The judge ruled that "the Galante hit was not in any way in furtherance of the heroin smuggling conspiracy, but was Mafia politics and the result of an internal Bonanno family power struggle". Pistone disagreed. He goes on to say "The Commission considered Galante an illegitimate boss who was greedy and wasn´t sharing his narcotics-conspiracy treasure." However, this doesn´t change my stance, I tend to agree with the judge for reasons explained in my posts above (and in other threads throughout this forum). No problem Cheech, you´re welcome.
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