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Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #739047
09/09/13 01:37 PM
09/09/13 01:37 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: LittleMan
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague

I think the Genovese was the most powerful from the earliest days up to the late 1950's, with the Gambinos being a strong #2.


I was under the impression that the Mangano/Anastasia family was small before Carlo took over and expanded the rackets.

Were they really stronger than the Profaci, Lucchese and Bonanno clans back then?


Yes. And they kept it big. The Gambinos made close to 200 new guys in the 1950s.


How where they allowed to induct so many new men? Didn't the families set a limit for membership? Seems unlikely to me as that would have been perceived as a major threat by the other families. And the books were closed at about the same time when Carlo took over.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: Sonny_Black] #739071
09/09/13 03:53 PM
09/09/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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HairyKnuckles Offline
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HairyKnuckles  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Originally Posted By: LittleMan
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague

I think the Genovese was the most powerful from the earliest days up to the late 1950's, with the Gambinos being a strong #2.


I was under the impression that the Mangano/Anastasia family was small before Carlo took over and expanded the rackets.

Were they really stronger than the Profaci, Lucchese and Bonanno clans back then?


Yes. And they kept it big. The Gambinos made close to 200 new guys in the 1950s.


How where they allowed to induct so many new men? Didn't the families set a limit for membership? Seems unlikely to me as that would have been perceived as a major threat by the other families. And the books were closed at about the same time when Carlo took over.


Never came across anything suggesting that there was a restriction on the number of new guys the Families were allowed to make. Because of their bigger size, the biggest Families also had a greater number of followers (associates, guys "on the record" etc). The Families were allowed to make anyone they wanted, as long as the new recruits were approved by the bosses when the lists were passed around.


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Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #739085
09/09/13 04:59 PM
09/09/13 04:59 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Never came across anything suggesting that there was a restriction on the number of new guys the Families were allowed to make. Because of their bigger size, the biggest Families also had a greater number of followers (associates, guys "on the record" etc). The Families were allowed to make anyone they wanted, as long as the new recruits were approved by the bosses when the lists were passed around.


But if a family wants to double in size in only a few years time other bosses aren't going to approve. The fact that each of the Five Families never surpassed a certain size does suggest that there was a limit on membership for each family. I don't buy it that the Gambinos went from a small family to the biggest one in only one decade, surpassing the other smaller families. Why didn't the Bonannos, Colombos or Luccheses came up with such a brilliant idea? If Bonanno just made 500 new men he wouldn't have had so much trouble ordering the murder of Gambino and Lucchese..


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: HairyKnuckles] #739115
09/09/13 08:04 PM
09/09/13 08:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 486
LittleMan Offline
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LittleMan  Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles

Yes. And they kept it big. The Gambinos made close to 200 new guys in the 1950s.


Anastasia was the don from '51 to '57. From what I have read, he handed out membership for a hefty price of around $40k. That could have been a reason for the large recruitment, as he stood to make millions. But the rumor of charging fees came from Genovese, who was trying to justify the whacking of Anastasia. So, who knows...

Is Carl Sifakis considered a reputable source? According to his Mafia Encyclopedia, under Carlo Gambino's leadership, "the relatively small Mangano operation became the biggest in New York and the nation." In addition, he wrote "Carlo Gambino took a second string crime family and built it into the Mafia's jewel in the crown, far more wealthy than even the family originally ruled by Lucky Luciano..."


You shit-kicking, stinky, horse-manure-smelling motherfucker you! If you ever get out of line over there again, I'll smash your fucking head so hard you won't be able to get that cowboy hat on. You hear me? Fucking hick. -Nicky (Casino)
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: Sonny_Black] #739128
09/09/13 09:12 PM
09/09/13 09:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
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Louiebynochi Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Never came across anything suggesting that there was a restriction on the number of new guys the Families were allowed to make. Because of their bigger size, the biggest Families also had a greater number of followers (associates, guys "on the record" etc). The Families were allowed to make anyone they wanted, as long as the new recruits were approved by the bosses when the lists were passed around.


But if a family wants to double in size in only a few years time other bosses aren't going to approve. The fact that each of the Five Families never surpassed a certain size does suggest that there was a limit on membership for each family. I don't buy it that the Gambinos went from a small family to the biggest one in only one decade, surpassing the other smaller families. Why didn't the Bonannos, Colombos or Luccheses came up with such a brilliant idea? If Bonanno just made 500 new men he wouldn't have had so much trouble ordering the murder of Gambino and Lucchese..




This is all bullshit

The gambinos were always the largest family, even going back to the 1930s
They always had the larger number of associates
By the gambino became boss, the books were closed
In 1956 guys like frank locascio were the last guys made until the early to mid 1970s

For the most part over the last 40 years the families in NYC make members to replace old ones
Sal vitale said he made up dead people from the phone book ,to be able to make new members
And vinny gorgeous was recorded on tape complaining to massino that JO JO Corozzo was making up the names of dead people an trying to sneak in guys that had been convicted of dealing drugs in the past 5 years, and massino laughed because he said "he always tried the same thing"


A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: PP] #739131
09/09/13 09:23 PM
09/09/13 09:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,408
Snakes Offline
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Snakes  Offline
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The Luciano and Mangano (and the Gagliano, to a certain extent) gangs were bigger than the Bonannos and the Profacis from the start as their gangs were older and able to draw on a larger "talent pool", so to speak. The majority of the latter two were Sicilian natives brought over to America in adulthood, whose families were smaller, but generally more tight knit and familial, at least until the next generation. I would assume that when it came time for recruitment, aspiring members would generally want to join the larger and wealthier crime families of Luciano and Mangano, as opposed to the smaller, and largely foreign speaking, Bonannos and Profacis.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: PP] #739143
09/10/13 12:19 AM
09/10/13 12:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
From what I understand, the Luciano/Genovese and Mangano/Gambino families have always been the two large NY families. I've read some things that said the Genovese were initially bigger, while others have said the Gambinos were initially bigger. Certainly during part of Carlo's reign as boss, the Gambinos were the biggest, but not by a significant margin. Not in the way those two families are significantly larger than the three smaller NY families.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: How do we know the Genovese are so powerful? [Re: Snakes] #739149
09/10/13 02:21 AM
09/10/13 02:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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HairyKnuckles Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
Never came across anything suggesting that there was a restriction on the number of new guys the Families were allowed to make. Because of their bigger size, the biggest Families also had a greater number of followers (associates, guys "on the record" etc). The Families were allowed to make anyone they wanted, as long as the new recruits were approved by the bosses when the lists were passed around.


But if a family wants to double in size in only a few years time other bosses aren't going to approve. The fact that each of the Five Families never surpassed a certain size does suggest that there was a limit on membership for each family. I don't buy it that the Gambinos went from a small family to the biggest one in only one decade, surpassing the other smaller families. Why didn't the Bonannos, Colombos or Luccheses came up with such a brilliant idea? If Bonanno just made 500 new men he wouldn't have had so much trouble ordering the murder of Gambino and Lucchese..


They didn´t. They have always been a very big Family. Some claim the Gambinos was a merger between two Families in the 1920s (D´Aqila and Mineo).

If the talent pool isn´t there, where would the smaller Families have found x amount of new recruits in order to double their size?. The larger the Family = the larger the group of associates. If the Colombos wanted to double their size in the 1950s, they would have had to bring in every Joe Blow standing on the corner they could find.

Originally Posted By: LittleMan


Is Carl Sifakis Mafia Encyclopedia considered a reputable source?



Sorry to say, but it´s not.

Originally Posted By: Snakes
I would assume that when it came time for recruitment, aspiring members would generally want to join the larger and wealthier crime families of Luciano and Mangano, as opposed to the smaller, and largely foreign speaking, Bonannos and Profacis.


A crew´s new recriuts were very often born and raised in the same neighborhood controlled by that specific crew. If the neighborhood was controlled by a Profaci crew, the new soldier was recruited by them. If another recruit grew up in another neighborhood controlled by another Family, the new recruit ended up with that Family. I understand what you´re saying, but the new recruits had no choice which Family to join. And besides, why would the new recruit want to join a crew in a different neighborhood he´s not familiar with, led by someone he doesn´t know/been around with? And vice versa...Why would a crew leader take in someone who is virtually unkown to him, someone he can´t vouch for?


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