GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (1 invisible), 708 guests, and 25 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 69,463
DE NIRO 44,965
J Geoff 31,308
Hollander 27,078
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,624
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,930
Posts1,073,147
Members10,349
Most Online1,100
Jun 10th, 2024
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back #734279
08/13/13 06:05 PM
08/13/13 06:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 361
B
bobbytran Offline OP
Capo
bobbytran  Offline OP
B
Capo
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 361
^

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734283
08/13/13 06:16 PM
08/13/13 06:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
L
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted By: bobbytran
^



No shit
I don't think anyone thinks that unless they're a moron
When I say things haven't changed as much as people think
As far as this notion that the outfit isn't engaged in violence
I think we have seen with guys like Calabrese(not frank sr) and carparelli
Is that they do what they have always done as far as gambling and collections
But they are much less obvious than they once were. They still have influence in the teamsters and are still the major player in Chicago as far as video poker and sports betting and also that they have connections to politicians and police and judges and all of these factors in my opinion make them very viable even if they are smaller than they once were


A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734296
08/13/13 06:37 PM
08/13/13 06:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...


1. According to the FBI, approximately 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates.

2. Scope of activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County, for the most part.

3. Down to two or three crews.

4. Still involved in street rackets like sports betting, video poker and stolen goods. Legit/quasi-legit interests include things like DiFronzo's companies, trucking companies, strip clubs, trade shows, etc.

5. Little to no involvement in narcotics.

6. Only residual influence in the unions. There hasn't been a labor racketeering indictment involving the Outfit in years. The 2002 Stier report resulted in no prosecutions.

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

8. Some examples of financial scams though unclear if they are directly connected to the Outfit or individuals acting on their own.

9. Murders of Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo shows the Outfit is still willing and capable of using violence. Low number of informants shows it still maintains cohesion and discipline.

10. General attrition has taken a huge toll and will see the end of the Outfit, more so than indictments, and in spite of cohesion and discipline.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734313
08/13/13 07:27 PM
08/13/13 07:27 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653
Illinois
F_white Offline
Underboss
F_white  Offline
Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653
Illinois
This will only add fire to the flames,Let the outfit debates end.


From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: F_white] #734315
08/13/13 07:35 PM
08/13/13 07:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
Dellacroce Offline
Underboss
Dellacroce  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: F_white
This will only add fire to the flames,Let the outfit debates end.
it never ends tongue


"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."

-Jordan Belfort
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734326
08/13/13 08:36 PM
08/13/13 08:36 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 199
H
Homers77 Offline
Made Member
Homers77  Offline
H
Made Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 199
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...


1. According to the FBI, approximately 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates.

2. Scope of activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County, for the most part.

3. Down to two or three crews.

4. Still involved in street rackets like sports betting, video poker and stolen goods. Legit/quasi-legit interests include things like DiFronzo's companies, trucking companies, strip clubs, trade shows, etc.

5. Little to no involvement in narcotics.

6. Only residual influence in the unions. There hasn't been a labor racketeering indictment involving the Outfit in years. The 2002 Stier report resulted in no prosecutions.

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

8. Some examples of financial scams though unclear if they are directly connected to the Outfit or individuals acting on their own.

9. Murders of Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo shows the Outfit is still willing and capable of using violence. Low number of informants shows it still maintains cohesion and discipline.

10. General attrition has taken a huge toll and will see the end of the Outfit, more so than indictments, and in spite of cohesion and discipline.




Great post as usual Ivy! I think this has been brought up before and this isn't really related to this post but do you keep tons of word documents with listings of different families members and their activities and indictments ect? Your knowledge and ability to post REAL information is amazing! Thank you for making this forum informative and interesting buddy!

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734333
08/13/13 08:43 PM
08/13/13 08:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
S
StonePark Offline
Button
StonePark  Offline
S
Button
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.



I agree with everything but #7, but I admit the Outfit is very top heavy in this respect. And when the old-timers pass away, they will take their connections with them, and the corruption vacuum will be filled by criminals from other groups of other ethnicities, as well as some well-positioned Outfit people. Even if nothing changes, there is still enough there politically to sustain the organization for a few more decades.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734336
08/13/13 08:47 PM
08/13/13 08:47 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
M
mulberry Offline
Underboss
mulberry  Offline
M
Underboss
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 999
Don't forget the legalization of casinos in Illinois pretty much wiped out the mob card games. Those were big money back in the day.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: mulberry] #734341
08/13/13 08:59 PM
08/13/13 08:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
S
StonePark Offline
Button
StonePark  Offline
S
Button
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: mulberry
Don't forget the legalization of casinos in Illinois pretty much wiped out the mob card games. Those were big money back in the day.


Right, but it has spurred juice rackets to some extent in the spirit of making lemonade out of lemons. Don't be surprised if you see more news items over the next few years along the lines of the recent incident involving Carparelli.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734364
08/13/13 10:13 PM
08/13/13 10:13 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
H
HuronSocialAthletic Offline
Underboss
HuronSocialAthletic  Offline
H
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
Haha Very funny thread poking fun @ The Don & baiting ivy league at the same time LOL

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734385
08/13/13 11:04 PM
08/13/13 11:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
L
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...


1. According to the FBI, approximately 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates.

2. Scope of activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County, for the most part.

3. Down to two or three crews.

4. Still involved in street rackets like sports betting, video poker and stolen goods. Legit/quasi-legit interests include things like DiFronzo's companies, trucking companies, strip clubs, trade shows, etc.

5. Little to no involvement in narcotics.

6. Only residual influence in the unions. There hasn't been a labor racketeering indictment involving the Outfit in years. The 2002 Stier report resulted in no prosecutions.

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

8. Some examples of financial scams though unclear if they are directly connected to the Outfit or individuals acting on their own.

9. Murders of Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo shows the Outfit is still willing and capable of using violence. Low number of informants shows it still maintains cohesion and discipline.

10. General attrition has taken a huge toll and will see the end of the Outfit, more so than indictments, and in spite of cohesion and discipline.


#7

How is Jim Wagner former head of Chicago FBI. How is him saying the Chicago Mob replaced roti and Marcy with Sam banks in the 36th ward, speculation and conjecture???

Jim Wagner isnt credible???


#6
John matassa jr is the head of the amegalmated transit union
Not a member he's the head., how is that residual??

Last edited by Louiebynochi; 08/13/13 11:06 PM.

A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734421
08/14/13 01:33 AM
08/14/13 01:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 432
Chicagoland
SgWaue86 Offline
Capo
SgWaue86  Offline
Capo
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 432
Chicagoland
Wasn't Matassa the guy meeting with Ambrose and passing the word to M.Marcello.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: Homers77] #734424
08/14/13 01:48 AM
08/14/13 01:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Homers77
Great post as usual Ivy! I think this has been brought up before and this isn't really related to this post but do you keep tons of word documents with listings of different families members and their activities and indictments ect? Your knowledge and ability to post REAL information is amazing! Thank you for making this forum informative and interesting buddy!


I've kept track of every mob indictment since 2000. I also pay attention to the latest charts. (the credible, well researched ones)

Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Haha Very funny thread poking fun @ The Don & baiting ivy league at the same time LOL


Are you sure that's what he was doing or is it just what you hope he was doing?

Originally Posted By: Louiebynochi
#7

How is Jim Wagner former head of Chicago FBI. How is him saying the Chicago Mob replaced roti and Marcy with Sam banks in the 36th ward, speculation and conjecture???

Jim Wagner isnt credible???


#6
John matassa jr is the head of the amegalmated transit union
Not a member he's the head., how is that residual??


If there's one thing I give even more credence to then what the feds say, it's what they do. And that applies to both things you mentioned above. When it comes to the LCN, nothing would please the feds more than cases related to political corruption or labor racketeering. The lack of either in years says a lot.

And, yes, at least as of 2004, Matassa was secretary-treasurer of the small and financially struggling Amalgamated Transit Workers Union Local 711. But if you look at the Outfit cases since then, there's hardly been anything in terms of labor racketeering. Once Matassa, DiForti, the Carusos, Lombardo Jr., Caravetta, etc. were all booted from the Laborers Union in the late 1990's and early 2000's, there doesn't seem to have been much left. Read the Stier Teamsters report in it's entirety and you'll see basically some residual influence. None of which, as I said, resulted in any indictments.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734426
08/14/13 02:13 AM
08/14/13 02:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
H
HuronSocialAthletic Offline
Underboss
HuronSocialAthletic  Offline
H
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
Have a gander at the shout box, Copernicus.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734428
08/14/13 02:20 AM
08/14/13 02:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
L
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Homers77
Great post as usual Ivy! I think this has been brought up before and this isn't really related to this post but do you keep tons of word documents with listings of different families members and their activities and indictments ect? Your knowledge and ability to post REAL information is amazing! Thank you for making this forum informative and interesting buddy!


I've kept track of every mob indictment since 2000. I also pay attention to the latest charts. (the credible, well researched ones)

Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Haha Very funny thread poking fun @ The Don & baiting ivy league at the same time LOL


Are you sure that's what he was doing or is it just what you hope he was doing?

Originally Posted By: Louiebynochi
#7

How is Jim Wagner former head of Chicago FBI. How is him saying the Chicago Mob replaced roti and Marcy with Sam banks in the 36th ward, speculation and conjecture???

Jim Wagner isnt credible???


#6
John matassa jr is the head of the amegalmated transit union
Not a member he's the head., how is that residual??


If there's one thing I give even more credence to then what the feds say, it's what they do. And that applies to both things you mentioned above. When it comes to the LCN, nothing would please the feds more than cases related to political corruption or labor racketeering. The lack of either in years says a lot.

And, yes, at least as of 2004, Matassa was secretary-treasurer of the small and financially struggling Amalgamated Transit Workers Union Local 711. But if you look at the Outfit cases since then, there's hardly been anything in terms of labor racketeering. Once Matassa, DiForti, the Carusos, Lombardo Jr., Caravetta, etc. were all booted from the Laborers Union in the late 1990's and early 2000's, there doesn't seem to have been much left. Read the Stier Teamsters report in it's entirety and you'll see basically some residual influence. None of which, as I said, resulted in any indictments.


So when u quote an article that quotes the FBI saying they have 30menbers that is credible, but when I post the exact same thing of them saying Chicago mob has control of the 36th ward ,that is not credible??
Are you dumb. Do you understand everything isn't black and white. They're are politics to consider when the Feds go after certain politicians. And I'm sure this has some factor

My question then is are you saying Jim Wagner is a liar or are you saying that we should ignore Jim wagner and listen to you

Ps. Just because something has been indicted doesn't mean it isn't going on
The trucchio father and son ran a drug operation from the early 80s to the early 2010s
Does that mean in 2006 they were not dealing drugs because they hadn't been indicted??

Last edited by Louiebynochi; 08/14/13 02:24 AM.

A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734431
08/14/13 02:26 AM
08/14/13 02:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
H
HuronSocialAthletic Offline
Underboss
HuronSocialAthletic  Offline
H
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 950
He has no idea what he means or what he's saying.

And you're both arguing in an admitted troll thread. Congratulations, boys.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: HuronSocialAthletic] #734434
08/14/13 02:33 AM
08/14/13 02:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Have a gander at the shout box, Copernicus.


I saw it. Not sure what you were talking about, i.e. retaliation or whatever.

Quote:
So when u quote an article that quotes the FBI saying they have 30menbers that is credible, but when I post the exact same thing of them saying Chicago mob has control of the 36th ward ,that is not credible??
Are you dumb. Do you understand everything isn't black and white. They're are politics to consider when the Feds go after certain politicians. And I'm sure this has some factor

My question then is are you saying Jim Wagner is a liar or are you saying that we should ignore Jim wagner and listen to you


You can listen to whoever you want. When it comes to you, louie, time has shown you'll listen to whoever tells you what you want to hear.

Anyway, when you read that article, you'll notice the relative lack of prosecutions following Operations Greylord and Gambat in the 1980's and Roti's conviction in 1990. I can respect Wagner's theory, such that it is, but it didn't result in much. It's sort of like the law enforcement officials in New York who predicted back in the 1980's and 1990's that the mob would be gone by now.

Quote:
Ps. Just because something has been indicted doesn't mean it isn't going on
The trucchio father and son ran a drug operation from the early 80s to the early 2010s
Does that mean in 2006 they were not dealing drugs because they hadn't been indicted??


Well, they eventually were indicted on those drug charges. And they were indicted in two other cases earlier in the decade. So get back to me when there's actually a political or labor-related bust involving the Chicago mob.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734462
08/14/13 11:07 AM
08/14/13 11:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
J
jonnynonos Offline
Underboss
jonnynonos  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
1. William Banks is no longer an alderman, now it's Nicholas Sposato, a career fireman.

2. More importantly, it would be impossible to "replace" anyone from the first ward with someone in the 36th ward. The first ward was broken up after GAMBAT. Fred Roti was the alderman of the FIRST WARD and Pat Marcy ran the FIRST WARD commission.

The FIRST WARD encompassed all of downtown Chicago--and thus the city's power nexus.

The 36 ward is Galewood... which is barely in the city.

So even if Banks was corrupt there is no parity whatsoever.

It's like comparing control of Manhattan to the farther outer burrough in Queens.

When Marcy was around the corruption was utterly unbelievable. Truly noteworthy, on a national level. But it's looooong gone.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734464
08/14/13 11:18 AM
08/14/13 11:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
12thStreet Offline
Made Member
12thStreet  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
Jonnynonos +1000..when The Outfit had the 1st Ward their power and influence at the city and county level was almighty. They had the ability to get Mayor Byrne to fire a police chief. They appointed judges at the County level. They decided which judges got which cases. The influenced city and county contracts and jobs it was unreal.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: 12thStreet] #734465
08/14/13 11:23 AM
08/14/13 11:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
J
jonnynonos Offline
Underboss
jonnynonos  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted By: 12thStreet
Jonnynonos +1000..when The Outfit had the 1st Ward their power and influence at the city and county level was almighty. They had the ability to get Mayor Byrne to fire a police chief. They appointed judges at the County level. They decided which judges got which cases. The influenced city and county contracts and jobs it was unreal.


I agree! It was shocking. I realize he is not a favorite in most parts but did you read Cooley's book? It's pretty amazing hearing him talking how he would go to court and basically start every day by paying dozens of off.

You can understand how it happened though... cops don't make a ton of money, neither do local judges etc. Some extra cash goes a long way, and you can see how they could justify it by saying "They only hurt each other etc."

Of course that was just the tip of the iceberg.

One thing people don't know, M. Daley actually started his career as a state's attorney prosecuting Spilotro.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734467
08/14/13 11:30 AM
08/14/13 11:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
12thStreet Offline
Made Member
12thStreet  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
Most people dunno either that the Daleys and the Briattas of the 26th Street crew are intermarried too. I've never read Cooley's book but will soon. He was a degenerate gambler I'm sure the $$ he must have owed played a part in his decision to run to the FBI.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: 12thStreet] #734469
08/14/13 11:38 AM
08/14/13 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
J
jonnynonos Offline
Underboss
jonnynonos  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted By: 12thStreet
Most people dunno either that the Daleys and the Briattas of the 26th Street crew are intermarried too. I've never read Cooley's book but will soon. He was a degenerate gambler I'm sure the $$ he must have owed played a part in his decision to run to the FBI.


It's pretty interesting. Actually before he starts wearing the wire for them on Marcy etc., he goes into Dironzo's car dealership and meets with him and gets him on wire forgiving all of the gambling debt.

But I'm sure it factored into his decision. And who the hell knows, DiFronzo could have just been covering his ass, suspecting he was on a wire.

It's a better than average mob book, though, as it was co-written with Hillel Levin, the former editor of Chicago Magazine, so it isn't just some schlep recording every whopper that a turncoat tells him and writing it down. It was all treated with good journalistic practices etc. And I think the vast majority of it was verified off the wires Cooley was wearing.

Not saying everything in it is true but still, at least vetted better than most.

Apparently they are going to turn it into a movie at some point. Last I heard Mark Wahlberg's production company.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: jonnynonos] #734472
08/14/13 11:56 AM
08/14/13 11:56 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
S
StonePark Offline
Button
StonePark  Offline
S
Button
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 64
Originally Posted By: jonnynonos
It's a better than average mob book, though, as it was co-written with Hillel Levin, the former editor of Chicago Magazine, so it isn't just some schlep recording every whopper that a turncoat tells him and writing it down. It was all treated with good journalistic practices etc. And I think the vast majority of it was verified off the wires Cooley was wearing.


I actually agree on the overall quality of the book. Cooley has repeated something very interesting more than once in interviews: That, as far as he could tell and to the best of his understanding, Pat Marcy was the most powerful figure in the Outfit (more so than any other single individual, boss or not) in all his years of being affiliated with the Outfit. That is a pretty powerful statement from someone so well-networked at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofs3-rxmCpM

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: StonePark] #734473
08/14/13 12:04 PM
08/14/13 12:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
J
jonnynonos Offline
Underboss
jonnynonos  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
Originally Posted By: StonePark
Originally Posted By: jonnynonos
It's a better than average mob book, though, as it was co-written with Hillel Levin, the former editor of Chicago Magazine, so it isn't just some schlep recording every whopper that a turncoat tells him and writing it down. It was all treated with good journalistic practices etc. And I think the vast majority of it was verified off the wires Cooley was wearing.


I actually agree on the overall quality of the book. Cooley has repeated something very interesting more than once in interviews: That, as far as he could tell and to the best of his understanding, Pat Marcy was the most powerful figure in the Outfit (more so than any other single individual, boss or not) in all his years of being affiliated with the Outfit. That is a pretty powerful statement from someone so well-networked at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofs3-rxmCpM


Wouldn't surprise me. Having dirt on half the politicians, police and other people in the city is a lot more valuable than just being able to shoot people.

He was a true svengali character if there ever was one.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734521
08/14/13 04:54 PM
08/14/13 04:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
L
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: HuronSocialAthletic
Have a gander at the shout box, Copernicus.


I saw it. Not sure what you were talking about, i.e. retaliation or whatever.

Quote:
So when u quote an article that quotes the FBI saying they have 30menbers that is credible, but when I post the exact same thing of them saying Chicago mob has control of the 36th ward ,that is not credible??
Are you dumb. Do you understand everything isn't black and white. They're are politics to consider when the Feds go after certain politicians. And I'm sure this has some factor

My question then is are you saying Jim Wagner is a liar or are you saying that we should ignore Jim wagner and listen to you


You can listen to whoever you want. When it comes to you, louie, time has shown you'll listen to whoever tells you what you want to hear.

Anyway, when you read that article, you'll notice the relative lack of prosecutions following Operations Greylord and Gambat in the 1980's and Roti's conviction in 1990. I can respect Wagner's theory, such that it is, but it didn't result in much. It's sort of like the law enforcement officials in New York who predicted back in the 1980's and 1990's that the mob would be gone by now.

Quote:
Ps. Just because something has been indicted doesn't mean it isn't going on
The trucchio father and son ran a drug operation from the early 80s to the early 2010s
Does that mean in 2006 they were not dealing drugs because they hadn't been indicted??


Well, they eventually were indicted on those drug charges. And they were indicted in two other cases earlier in the decade. So get back to me when there's actually a political or labor-related bust involving the Chicago mob.


Michael Genovese wasnt indicted does that mean he wasn't the boss
Vincent loscalzo inducted John Mamone into the trafficante family in 1995 and received tribute from his gambling loan sharking and drugs
But loacalzo wasn't indicted, does that mean none of it ever happened???
John difronzo started jks and his car dealerships and bought his buildings with mob money, and yet he wasnt indicted for money laundering does that mean it didn't happen.

Those Cleveland guys that were loan sharking and pressuring that guy at mcCormic involved with Rudy fratto. Those cleveland guys were never indicted
What about the Cleveland mob guys that gave the Lamborghini to the Philly crew. Those Cleveland guys weren't indicted. Does that mean it didn't happen???

Matassa jr is a felon and is draining the funds from the transit union
Does that mean its not happening
Do you think matassa jr does any illegal activity with this union???
Is he not a member of the mob?? He wasn't indicted???did it not happen???

Last edited by Louiebynochi; 08/14/13 05:00 PM.

A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: Louiebynochi] #734545
08/14/13 06:51 PM
08/14/13 06:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Louiebynochi
Michael Genovese wasnt indicted does that mean he wasn't the boss
Vincent loscalzo inducted John Mamone into the trafficante family in 1995 and received tribute from his gambling loan sharking and drugs
But loacalzo wasn't indicted, does that mean none of it ever happened???
John difronzo started jks and his car dealerships and bought his buildings with mob money, and yet he wasnt indicted for money laundering does that mean it didn't happen.

Those Cleveland guys that were loan sharking and pressuring that guy at mcCormic involved with Rudy fratto. Those cleveland guys were never indicted
What about the Cleveland mob guys that gave the Lamborghini to the Philly crew. Those Cleveland guys weren't indicted. Does that mean it didn't happen???


The point your trying to make might be valid in the short term. However, as time goes by, it becomes weaker and weaker. If you stretch your way of thinking out long enough, somebody can claim this or that is going on forever; regardless of the lack of evidence. Your entire argument is based on hypotheticals, louie. Are you going to be making the same argument in another ten years if/when we still haven't seen any political or labor cases involving the Chicago mob? It's the same problem you have with the Detroit and Buffalo families. How much time has to go by before you finally write them off?

Quote:
Matassa jr is a felon and is draining the funds from the transit union
Does that mean its not happening
Do you think matassa jr does any illegal activity with this union???
Is he not a member of the mob?? He wasn't indicted???did it not happen???


Matassa is "draining the funds" from the union? And we know this how? Because he's a mobster and that's what mobsters do with unions? Sure, plenty have. But you're adding 1+1 and getting 3 in this case. More hypotheticals.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: IvyLeague] #734556
08/14/13 08:07 PM
08/14/13 08:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
L
Louiebynochi Offline
Banned
Louiebynochi  Offline
Banned
L
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Louiebynochi
Michael Genovese wasnt indicted does that mean he wasn't the boss
Vincent loscalzo inducted John Mamone into the trafficante family in 1995 and received tribute from his gambling loan sharking and drugs
But loacalzo wasn't indicted, does that mean none of it ever happened???
John difronzo started jks and his car dealerships and bought his buildings with mob money, and yet he wasnt indicted for money laundering does that mean it didn't happen.

Those Cleveland guys that were loan sharking and pressuring that guy at mcCormic involved with Rudy fratto. Those cleveland guys were never indicted
What about the Cleveland mob guys that gave the Lamborghini to the Philly crew. Those Cleveland guys weren't indicted. Does that mean it didn't happen???


The point your trying to make might be valid in the short term. However, as time goes by, it becomes weaker and weaker. If you stretch your way of thinking out long enough, somebody can claim this or that is going on forever; regardless of the lack of evidence. Your entire argument is based on hypotheticals, louie. Are you going to be making the same argument in another ten years if/when we still haven't seen any political or labor cases involving the Chicago mob? It's the same problem you have with the Detroit and Buffalo families. How much time has to go by before you finally write them off?

Quote:
Matassa jr is a felon and is draining the funds from the transit union
Does that mean its not happening
Do you think matassa jr does any illegal activity with this union???
Is he not a member of the mob?? He wasn't indicted???did it not happen???


Matassa is "draining the funds" from the union? And we know this how? Because he's a mobster and that's what mobsters do with unions? Sure, plenty have. But you're adding 1+1 and getting 3 in this case. More hypotheticals.


Number 1 he has a history of doing this. Why then would you assume he works for the local, since he's a made member, what is his purpose of working there???
Also the people that hired him must be in. Bed with the mob.
One simple background check or google search would bring up his history??
Anyone in the field of labor that deals with him on a regular basis has to know him and what he is and what he represents.How could anyone in labor in Chicago not know about his expulsion from the laborers an obviously they deal with him because the mob in the unions is a fact of life in Chicago, even today

Also don't tell me he's retired or retreated. He's mentioned in the news and court papers and was said to be a capo in Scott burnsteins family affair book.
I know if I was a "legit union treasure" I would sue the shit outta him for libel and slander unless of course I can't because whats been said and written and alleged is true.
The same goes for the banks family and jimmy deleo. I know if I was a "legitament" politician like those guys and not controlled by the mob then I would sue the shit outta John kass and the tribune and the FBI, unless of course I can't because what was written and alleged and stated by a fucking FBI agent is factually correct
Again don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's 1983, I know it's 2013. I'm just saying they have more labor union and political connections than you give them cedit for.

Last edited by Louiebynochi; 08/14/13 08:17 PM.

A March 1986 raid on DiBernardo's office seized alleged "child pornography and financial records." As "a result of the Postal Inspectors seizures [a federal prosecutor] is attempting to indict DiBernardo on child pornography violations" according to an FBI memo dated May 20, 1986.
Thousands of pages of FBI Files that document his involvement in Child Porn
https://www.muckrock.com/foi/united-states-of-america-10/star-distributors-ltd-46454/
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/0...s-Miporn-investigation-of/7758361252800/
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1526052/united-states-v-dibernardo/
Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734564
08/14/13 09:35 PM
08/14/13 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
J
jonnynonos Offline
Underboss
jonnynonos  Offline
J
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
Fact is, they are a toothless tiger.

That essentially is what all these conversations are about.

And the bottom line is these days "The Outit" is about as formidable as a legitimate mid size business. No more, no less.

Back in the early 2000s the feds estimated the entire Outfit annual take at $200 million, which was almost certainly inflated.

These days it's far less. Which puts it squarely in the "small business" category.

They don't kill people and they have greatly, greatly diminished political connections.

Essentially it's over.

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: bobbytran] #734575
08/14/13 10:36 PM
08/14/13 10:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
12thStreet Offline
Made Member
12thStreet  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 222
Chicago, Il.
They still kill..they have lost teeth but are not toothless. It's not over YET here in Chicago but may be within our lifetimes

Re: The Outfit of yesterfar is dead and wont come back [Re: Louiebynochi] #734579
08/14/13 11:07 PM
08/14/13 11:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Louiebynochi
Number 1 he has a history of doing this. Why then would you assume he works for the local, since he's a made member, what is his purpose of working there???
Also the people that hired him must be in. Bed with the mob.
One simple background check or google search would bring up his history??
Anyone in the field of labor that deals with him on a regular basis has to know him and what he is and what he represents.How could anyone in labor in Chicago not know about his expulsion from the laborers an obviously they deal with him because the mob in the unions is a fact of life in Chicago, even today

Also don't tell me he's retired or retreated. He's mentioned in the news and court papers and was said to be a capo in Scott burnsteins family affair book.
I know if I was a "legit union treasure" I would sue the shit outta him for libel and slander unless of course I can't because whats been said and written and alleged is true.
The same goes for the banks family and jimmy deleo. I know if I was a "legitament" politician like those guys and not controlled by the mob then I would sue the shit outta John kass and the tribune and the FBI, unless of course I can't because what was written and alleged and stated by a fucking FBI agent is factually correct
Again don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's 1983, I know it's 2013. I'm just saying they have more labor union and political connections than you give them cedit for.


Even if we assume Matassa is doing everything you say, that's one small, financially struggling local. And apparently he's not doing enough to even warrant an indictment.

And people can mention what few names they have, such as DeLeo, but the connections and whatever benefit the Outfit receives is often unclear. The connection to, and benefit from, Betty Loren Maltese was clear because there was an indictment; like Greylord and Gambat previously. Now, it seems were left with mostly vague connections and speculation more than anything.

Originally Posted By: jonnynonos
Fact is, they are a toothless tiger.

That essentially is what all these conversations are about.

And the bottom line is these days "The Outit" is about as formidable as a legitimate mid size business. No more, no less.

Back in the early 2000s the feds estimated the entire Outfit annual take at $200 million, which was almost certainly inflated.

These days it's far less. Which puts it squarely in the "small business" category.

They don't kill people and they have greatly, greatly diminished political connections.

Essentially it's over.


I think it was $100 million. But even that was a faulty figure. One journalist gleaned it from another article, which was about the Outfit's video poker operations, and claimed it was the Outfit's total annual income. But the $100 million a year from video poker was based on the estimate of the Outfit having 1,000 machines (where did they get that?), each of which took in $100,000 a year. Even if you average out the take from each machine, they apparently didn't take into account the standard 50/50 split with the business where the machines are placed.

Anyway, I wouldn't go as far as to say "It's all over." It's still a viable family, albeit more like the other small remaining families outside New York. And we have seen guys still get killed now and again (Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo).

Last edited by IvyLeague; 08/14/13 11:18 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™