Originally Posted By: Chicago
Sonny Black, Ivy and I never said Chicago at it's Height ever surpassed any of the New York Families. We said they were comparable.


For the record, I said a good argument could be made that they were comparable.

Originally Posted By: Mmalioni
Chicago and New York were never really competing. New York controlled the East Coast including Florida, Cuba and Atlantic City. Chicago had Las Vegas and the Los Angeles. Power was relative to each area. Chicago, due to the corruption in the city, likely had more political clout within Chicago than New York Families did in New York.

Think about it this way. Giancana told the NY Families that they should have done the 1957 meeting in Chicago because law enforcement was under their control.

The Outfit controlled police chiefs all over the suburbs and even the Chief of Detectives in Chicago was an Outfit guy. I think it was fairly recent when the Elmwood Park or Melrose Park Police Chief was outed as an Outfit Associate.

Next, turn to the court system. Judge Mahoney. Enough said. He walked Spilotro at a bench trial. Alan Masters, attorney at law. Operations Greylord, Gambat and Silver Spoon.

City politics: Pat Marcy and Fred Roti. Marcy was a Democratic Party leader and Roti was a City Councilman and made man in the Outfit.

New York didn't have the clout at the highest levels of government although due to city size, it didn't matter. New York's 5 families were extremely powerful and still are powerful in certain neighborhoods and in South Florida.


We're all aware of these past political connections of the Outfit. However, whenever people cite them, especially when making comparisons, one can't help but get the feeling those same people aren't aware of mob-related political corruption in New York/New Jersey. They're so busy trying to make a case for Chicago that they've never bothered to do any research outside that city.

Ever heard of Tammany Hall? James Hines? Christy Sullivan? Hugo Rogers? Carmine DeSapio? Frank Rossetti (Manhattan Democratic chairman)? Meade Esposito (Brooklyn Democratic boss)? Joseph Galiber (Democratic state senator)? Stanley Friedman (Bronx Democratic leader)? Paul Victor (Bronx Democratic chairman)? Mob-related corruption in New Jersey has been even worse down through the years - from Newark Mayor Hugh Addonizio to Governor James E. McGreevey - and there are literally too many to name.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/23/13 03:34 PM.

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