Ivy, some of us know precisely what we speak of and haven't been brainwashed by a fringe cult that almost everyone in this country regards as clincally insane.
So now you speak for everyone, huh? You're speaking for yourself. Nothing more.
Uhh, most people do regard Mormonism as a cult founded by a complete and utter heretic fraud. You can argue it's not until whenever, but those guys are on about the same level as the Branch Davidians. Like when the BYU basketball player was suspended for having sex--with his FIANCEE--safe to say that doesn't fall into mainstream America or virtually anywhere else. http://www.cultwatch.com/mormon.html http://mormoncult.org/ http://www.thepropheticyears.com/cults/mormons.HTM
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
Abraham Lincoln supported the condemnation of Mormon plural marriage as a “relic of barbarism" and opposed statehood for Utah unless the Church renounced polygamy. In his 1857 speech on the Dred Scott case he said it was “probable” the Mormons were in “open rebellion” against the federal government. He then stated that therefore he was open to the idea of abolishing Utah as a territory and said the Saints should be “somehow coerced to obedience”. (Abraham Lincoln: Speeches and Writings, 1832-1858, New York: Rutgers University Press, 1989, p. 390).
This is all after the Utah war took place in which several later Civil War generals (i.e Albert Sidney Johnston) and statesmen participated in. So please, save the ad hominems for the rest of the Kool Aid drinkers.
And this equates to him going to war with the Mormons?
We already had a war with the Mormons, and there would have been more had they not acquiescenced to the demands of the US government. Now you're just arguing dishonestly and denying basic historical facts and syllogism, but I'll continue to play along.
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
And 'so what if there is no significant support for polygamy?' This is the still the government by the people, of the people, and for the people, right?
Tell that to the people of California. And once again, you can't agree with the Supreme Court's ruling on gay marriage (which they say is based on the Constitution) and then turn around and say polygamy should remain illegal based on some public opinion argument. Hell, at least other libs here are being somewhat consistent by saying they would allow polygamy. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You think I'm a liberal? Wow, maybe to a Nazi or some small town, narrow minded ignorant ass but not in general. And again, when there's a popular outcry for polygamy like there has been for same sex marriage it'll be addressed. But I wouldn't hold my breath. Spoiler alert: It's not even on the radar.
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
Every poll in this nation says there's more support in favor of same sex marriage than those opposing it, and it grows everyday. Polygamy isn't even a blip on the radar screen.
You and other gay marriage supporters like to quote these polls, which are often conflicting. Last I checked, far more states have ban gay marriage than allow it. Which is precisely why gay marriage supporters have to go through the courts. They know they will lose in the court of public opinion most of the time.
You can't cite one mainstream media poll where the opposition is higher, because Fox News has it even. And those states are falling one by one, otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion, with you and others dragging your feet every step of the way.
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Frank_Nitti
And it really doesn't matter what people thought of this 1,000 years ago or even 100 years ago, we've advanced on every other social issue so why not this one?
Hardly. Divorce is around 50%. Ever increasing numbers of children are born out of wedlock. As well as raised without a mother in the home. The feminist movement has about sex without consequences - the worst thing to happen to women. How many diseases have been spread about by people fornicating like animals? 50+ million abortions in this country since Roe v. Wade. Attempts to get tax-payer funded sex changes. The minimization of the differing identities and roles of men and women. Women in combat, as well as SEALS and Rangers for God's sake. Reverse racism in the form of affirmative action. And now federally recognized gay marriage.
What planet are you living on?
Well I'm NOT living on planet Kolob with you and your cronies, but I'll tell you now that none of those social conditions you mentioned will be mitigated by the disallowal of same sex marriage (cetainly not women in the military or whatever else you throw in there). People will still get married in traditional settings and have kids; some will be good parents, some not, but even that is highly subjective as to what constitutes good parenting. This all sounds like a cop out to cover your own personal biases.
