http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74K6GWqmzqM&sns=em

Saturday night live

This was written in response to Schlesinger but it applies equally well to Deen and her defenders.

http://darkush.blogspot.com/2010/08/dr-lauras-rant.html

It's certainly not about what she said over 20 years ago. It's about current day discrimination and use of racial slurs. This all came out in the context of a discrimination lawsuit (brought by a white woman) concerning racial and sexual harassment and a very hostile workplace. It is avoiding the issue for anyone to claim this is about pc. That's bull****.

http://www.blacklegalissues.com/Article_Details.aspx?artclid=7dfdbe0461

As was mentioned upthread can anyone imagine that a Caucasian gentile would wish for a wedding featuring Jewish people dressed as concentration camp inmates? No. And if a person did, would anyone be rushing to defend that person claiming they were only a product of their times and so on. Also no. So why would anyone expect (most) black people to feel any differently?

http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2013/06/does-paula-deen-dream-of-place-where.html

Last night I heard something that I would like to post here. it is not word for word but the main points are here below as best as I can recount them.

Why are people so hung up on a the use of a word like the n-word. Do they really think that pressuring people not to use that word will stop people from thinking that anyway. That the hate will just go away?

Is the real truth, that it gives some black people something to bitch about and throw something up once again. Then need something to strike out against the system because many do not make out very well in the world in todays way of life. That they need an excuse for not getting ahead. and if you say it long and often enough it will be taken as a real reason for it.

So by not using or hearing the n word it will make people feel different towards others. So you can curse the hell towards people with all the F bombs and other words but the N word since it is direct towards one group is way over the top?

Why are whites or the Irish, the Jews or the Asians for example not just as offended by any of the words said against them? Are they more secure in the world or do the black community have special needs?

Why the hype that says this word is different because it represents something that happen in the past to blacks. Don't all races, cultures have things that have happen to them which is just as bad, but they don't scream and yell as much about it that their slurs keep them down.

Do we get blasted for just bringing up the point. If you do will you be labeled as a racist? Which twists it around and makes you a the bad guy? People like to say the use of that N word makes you ignorant, but why don't that say that about people using the f word or any others slurs against other groups?


Now after reading these points that were made, how many people will be mad at me for posting them up?

Or is the real reason that people just will hate anything they don't like or feel different about?

Where is it said that Jews or Asians or any other group are not "Just as offended" by ethnic slurs? They should be! Any word that has a hateful context should not be used. Period.

Ethnic slurs have a hateful context. I have never used one and I never will. I taught my children to never use them. Can I stop other people's thoughts? No, but I can certainly put a stop to their behavior in my presence. And I assure you, if they used the N word or the S word or the K word or the W word, they wouldn't be doing it for long in my presence. One of us would leave.

As probably most Italian members of this Board, I've been called a dago quite a few times. At least as an adult, I always determined how it was meant. When people get mad, they say things that they don't say when they are not mad. As an adult, I've considered ethnic insults directed at me in the context in which they were spoken. Most I've walked away from.

To tell you the truth, I've not read yet or heard all of Paula Deen's comments nor when they were made. So far, it's my understanding that she made those comments many years ago, decades ago. Is that right? I was never aware of her until she publicized her diabetes. So, I have no interest in her as a cook. As such, I say let it go.

I was not referring to Paula Deen. I agree, from what I've read (and I may not know the whole story) I think that you can't hold someone responsible for what they said decades ago. Hopefully, they have evolved. Things I did as a younger person I certainly wouldn't do now.

I was responding to FS's post on why "the N word" is so offensive. That seems to be a bit of an oxymoron, hence my response.

There's no question that that word should never be used by a non-black person no matter how angry one is. The history associated with it is horrible. I also agree that it is an oxymoron for an American adult to not know how horrible is that word.

My dad used to say that they call each other that. I asked him if he would be offended if anotherItalian called him a dago. Of course they wouldn't. But if a non-Italian says it, then it's a different story.

She apologized so everyone should just get over it.

Nicky, I agree that it may be overblown, given the information I have. But to say it's no big deal is underwhelming. It's a loathsome word with a terrible history, and that needs to remain front and center.

It has a horrible meaning but it's just a word. It happened almost 30 years ago when that was still common to be publicly said, especially in the south. There's much worse that can be done.

I beg to differ that it was 30 years ago. She has said in 2007 that she wishes her brother's wedding be such and such. Go read it here in the link Lilo gave: http://www.blacklegalissues.com/Article_Details.aspx?artclid=7dfdbe0461

She is a racist. I echo MC's post.

When I saw it on the news it said 27 years ago

In that specific testimony maybe. But apparently she has not stopped being what she is.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a response to that,Lilo.

Is this a joke thread?

I've watched several gangster films and docs.

Characters are killers and use profanity,slurs,etc and of course
a lot of the films are based on la cosa nostra.

I've never used or wanted to use any of the ethnic slurs directed towards Italians , nor do I feel that my RIGHTS are being infringed upon if I can't say those words (in public).

I'm not Italian American,I can't speak for that group, and regardless of how many hollywood films I watch, I'll NEVER know how real life Italians feel about those slurs.

Goodfellas doesn't represent Italians any more than (insert rapper's name) represents Black people.

We're all adults here...please get off the bullshitt, people.

Good for you SB. But when you say NEVER, my mind quickly turns to the OJ Simpson farce with Mark Furman saying the same thing. In a court of law, just like Paula was. That is when a whole bunch of people came forward making him look like a fool caught in a lie. Taught me to never say never if I could help it.

So no slurs, so no curse words either I take it then. I
you on that. What about TV shows and such. How do you handle that? My grandmother is so shocked by what she hears on the tube, videos and even in the movies that she almost refuses to watch any more.

You know my grandfather once told be and I will include slurs in here also. That curse words or insults ( and slurs) are only as good as the reaction the user gets from the people he is using them against. No reactions from people and they just don't mean crap. If it hurts the person then it did what the user wanted it to do. So next time someone says something nasty to you don't react the way they want. Don't give them what they want.

@fatherson

So, what you're saying is that you're out with your wife and some guy speaks in a disrespectful manner towards her or outright insults her......you don't do what he "expects you to do"....you just walk off whistling?

Why would you think that? You ask a question that is so general that it could be handle in oh, so many ways depending on the details.. of where we were, did I know the person or is he a stranger? Is it a social gathering or are we just walking down the street. What did he say and why did he said it. Was the person drunk, or high on drugs?

There are so many things that would change the way you would handle each case. But the one clear thing is not to let the insult keep you from thinking. Don't get blinded by the words and lead into doing something in the wrong matter which you may regret later. An insult has done no physical harm to me or my lady.
Now if you are talking and someone getting phsyical or a form of aggression you are talking a whole new ballgame my friend.

As I posted above, sometimes people say things out of temporary anger. Such statements are transitory. Others state them out of endemic animus (prejudice or racism or misogynism, etc). It is for the target of such statements to determine which they believe it is and to take offense (or a degree thereof) or not.

As a former government administrator and now a college instructor, I understand the effect that words can have on people regardless of their intent. Thus, I am always conscience of what I am stating. That includes posting here. However, sometimes I'm not as vigilant as I should be. That happens. When that does happen I do realize it, I anticipate the consequences, and I do usually take corrective action.

If Paula Deen made certain offensive statements as recently as 2007, that's different than her having made them decades ago. However, my knowledge of her statements is cursory; this is one time when it may be best to let the marketplace decide.

Sounds as if you're making it up as you go along.

If the insult did "no harm" to you or your lady, then just walking away from the person(in all the scenarios) would be consistent with what you've been writing about "not letting it affect you or getting the desired response".

That's what I've read into your statements.

But among the "so many ways" that the situation could be handled depending on setting, familiarity,etc..? one of them probably involves ADDRESSING the PERSON for what was said, correct?

Why? Why would there be any scenario where you just don't walk away, remove yourself from situation and then act like it never happened? After all, just words,right?

Paula and the next person who gets caught saying something in private that they'd rather not have heard publicly..... just be whoever you are and own the words.

I'm waiting for the statement that reads "I did say those words and that's not the first time or the last time. It's up to others to determine whether my words make me a bigot or a homophobe. It's up to any business partners of mine to determine whether or not this public airing of my private words affects our brand image. I will not be a coward or a hypocrite and deny ever saying these words or harboring ugly thoughts about other groups of people. All human beings are flawed, now some of my flaws are more visible"


Just own it.

I created a BB Word game about "The Wire" tv series a while back. One day I see an entry that is nothing more than an excuse for a person to write a slur. send the guy a pm asking him to remove it...log in later in the day, see that slur is still up.... ask him publicly now and more directly to remove it.
almost indigninantly, dude refuses to remove the slur

show was on for 5 years.....dozens of major characters...hundreds of minor characters..endlessly quotable tv series....and like a true class individual
....well, his quote is probably still up, he's on my ignore list

Was actually a mistake on my part.Person that would post what he posted is exactly who I thought he was. An apology or him removing the line, is just not consistent with who he is.

Be who you are in life, and own whatever repercussions and consequences come about.

FS, I love how you give me that pat on the back while expressing doubt at the veracity of my statement. And what does cursing have to do with ethnic slurs? Saying "f**k" or "s**t" has nothing to do with referring to a Latino as a "s**c" or an Italian as a "w*p" or any of the myriad of other hateful and horrible words that are out there.

As for what goes on in films or television, I'm not a prude. I understand that the film or show is trying to portray a character. The character isn't going to come down off the screen to do bad things. However, people in real life will. And for allowing their words to influence me in some way, they don't. That's why they are not allowed in my presence. I have heard people use those words. They are told to never utter that in my presence, and especially never, ever in my home. If they don't like it, they know where the door is.

Like I said, I can't change the way people think, but I can at least change their behavior in my presence. Hopefully, giving them pause, having them into understand that it's hate speech, nothing less, nothing more, just hate, will make them think twice before doing it again. It's only by taking a stand can you make a change.

Here, let play it your way. Because you seem to be trying to make a certain point come out for your own needs. I don't ever make things up as I go along. That is not my normal nature

You didn't give me enough info to properly address which way I need to respond. Do any words harm you
No.
Didn't you ever here the children's rhyme- Stick and stone may break my bones but names will never hurt me? a childs rhyme with a message.

If you have a tuff guy ego and you feel like you need to get your "respect" back then some people go right back at the person. If some drunk is standing on the corner or a mental health person swears and saying slurs to everyone that goes by then, Yes walk on by and chuckle if you will.

If we are at a Christmas party and a co worker has to much to drink and makes a fool of himself, sure lets keep quiet and not make something of it. Chances are he will have enough problems later from the boss or someone else.

But if we are walking somewhere or in a parking garage or lot and three punks come up and start talking shit. About my wife, her looks or my race now looking to get me upset so they can get us off balance. Mug us or rape her, Then I HAVE TO decide what their INTENT is and what aggressive action they may take. I have to let the words they throw at me not cloud my mind I have to stay clear incase I have pull my gun and possible defend our lives.

That is what you learn to do. Why, because I just might be put into a position that I have to decide if I am going to have to take someone life. and that isn't so funny now is it.
and no this isn't just tuff talk either. That you can bet on.

I like the way you think of my words in only such a negative way? I was truthful and told you of my reaction whan I read that. ( I know what you will say I know you to well-) same old story I guess. I didn't say you were a prude, but why give that seal of approval to those types of actions by viewing or paying to see the very thing you will not tolerate in person. but for entertainmet it is ok? I told you about my very own family and how she feels about sitting there I wasn't trying to be smart about it.
Sure it is only a character if that the way you want to play it off...but what is it teaching our kids or other adults that that is the normal way to act and speak to people. Like rap music?

Good points.....but what was his intent by using that slur? to get you going or just vent his feeling towards a person or event? Is it his problem or yours for letting that upset you so much? hard thing to understand at times.

Sometime you just have to let the other person be himself and you keep your own values also. Sometime you just don't get to be the judge and the jury on some of these things. It is the way the world is. Not perfect.

on the topic of paula deen
wasnt there some weird stuff in her lawsuit about her brother watching porn and showing it to the workers, and then there was some other stuff about him having sex with an underage girl and paula calling the girl a piece of pussy or something.

No, it's not only entertainment. These words have a history, albeit an ugly one. Can you imagine making a movie like "Monster's Ball" without using certain words? But the purpose of the movie was to educate about racism. Can you imagine making a movie like "Schindler's List" without the Nazi's using derogatory words about Jews?? It's not for entertainment purposes, it's about history and learning from it. Do I think they should have a gratuitous purpose? No. But they are history, and you can't change that, only hopefully learn from it.

That is the more disturbing aspect of case. The race part has overwhelmed it in media. She was honest on witness stand about use of N word, now I bet she wishes she had lied and said she never used it. Al Shaprton Once called someone a "fa***t" on tv, and another time called Greeks "Homos" but is not asked to apologize. Jesse Jackson once called New York City 'Hymie town" and only had to say he was sorry once. Paula Deen is just a cook, not a politician, civil rights leader news anchor, or lawmaker. Yet she is being held to a higher standard.