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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: klydon1] #724326
07/05/13 01:54 PM
07/05/13 01:54 PM
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
Thanks, Kly.
This case has moved glacially since the guy was charged four years ago. The first trial ended in mistrial after the presiding judge was disabled by a brain tumor, which eventually killed him. Then the defense attorneys resigned for some undisclosed reason. Then the new defense attorneys found that employees of the prosecutor's office saw some privileged documents they weren't supposed to see. That took almost two years to adjudicate (in the prosecution's favor). The defendant has been in solitary for more than two years because the county sheriff claims he was dangerous to other prisoners. His attorneys objected, but a judge ruled that he had no jurisdiction over the sheriff.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #724355
07/05/13 05:21 PM
07/05/13 05:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,029
Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly, Zimmermann's defense attorney is requesting an acquittal direction. Do all directed verdict's have to originate with the defense? Does the state ever request one? Also, can a judge direct one without a request?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #724837
07/08/13 11:07 AM
07/08/13 11:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly, Zimmermann's defense attorney is requesting an acquittal direction. Do all directed verdict's have to originate with the defense? Does the state ever request one? Also, can a judge direct one without a request?


In criminal cases requests for directed verdicts, which have to be made immediately after the prosecution rests, are limited to defendants. If viewing the prosecution's evidence in a light most favorable to the state, the judge determines there is insufficient evidence, on which a jury may draw reasonable inferences to conclude that the defendant is guilty, the judge is obligated to direct a verdict in favor of the deefnse.

The judge can not direct a verdict unless it is requested. Having a directed verdict granted is rare, but it happened to me once.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #724934
07/08/13 08:53 PM
07/08/13 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
TIS, her credibility is shot. She has impeached it because on cross-examination some of her testimony was shown to conflict with her pre-trial deposition. She has also testified to things that she did not testify to in her deposition. In addition, she lied about personal events.




spoken like a true Texan

George Zimmerman raped his little cousin years ago and now he's murdered someone

if anybody has no credibility it's zimmerman

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #724977
07/09/13 02:06 AM
07/09/13 02:06 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
spoken like a true Texan

George Zimmerman raped his little cousin years ago and now he's murdered someone

if anybody has no credibility it's zimmerman


I don't anything about him raping his cousin years ago but it's got nothing to do with the present case. And if you've been paying attention to the evidence, which you apparently haven't, the most Zimmerman appears to be guilty of is involuntary manslaughter. The 2nd degree murder charge is a joke and only came because of political pressure due to the racial aspect of the case.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: IvyLeague] #725051
07/09/13 11:41 AM
07/09/13 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
spoken like a true Texan

George Zimmerman raped his little cousin years ago and now he's murdered someone

if anybody has no credibility it's zimmerman


I don't anything about him raping his cousin years ago but it's got nothing to do with the present case. And if you've been paying attention to the evidence, which you apparently haven't, the most Zimmerman appears to be guilty of is involuntary manslaughter. The 2nd degree murder charge is a joke and only came because of political pressure due to the racial aspect of the case.




I know yall don't think child rape is a big deal in Utah BUT IT IS

him raping his little cousin shows that he's a degenerate sociopath

and it's impossible to involuntarily shoot somebody

George Zimmerman will have plenty time to battle black males in prison

Last edited by cookcounty; 07/09/13 11:45 AM.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725059
07/09/13 11:55 AM
07/09/13 11:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Five_Felonies Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
I know yall don't think child rape is a big deal in Utah BUT IT IS

him raping his little cousin shows that he's a degenerate sociopath

and it's impossible to involuntarily shoot somebody

George Zimmerman will have plenty time to battle black males in prison

i don't even know where to start with people like you. first off, where is this proof that zimmerman raped his cousin? thought so. secondly, have you watched any of the trial? judging by the crap that you have posted its pretty clear that you have not and have fell for the silly msm portrayal hook, line, and sinker. there has been no disputing the fact that he shot trayvon, but that isn't what the trial is about. as much as you and plenty of others who have an emotional stake in this whole circus for whatever reason want to believe, simply shooting someone doesn't = murder. my advice to you would be to actually follow the trial instead of getting your outlook from nancy grace.

Last edited by Five_Felonies; 07/09/13 12:02 PM.

It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Five_Felonies] #725064
07/09/13 12:15 PM
07/09/13 12:15 PM
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Posts: 2,213
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cookcounty Offline
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Originally Posted By: Five_Felonies
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
I know yall don't think child rape is a big deal in Utah BUT IT IS

him raping his little cousin shows that he's a degenerate sociopath

and it's impossible to involuntarily shoot somebody

George Zimmerman will have plenty time to battle black males in prison

i don't even know where to start with people like you. first off, where is this proof that zimmerman raped his cousin? thought so. secondly, have you watched any of the trial? judging by the crap that you have posted its pretty clear that you have not and have fell for the silly msm portrayal hook, line, and sinker. there has been no disputing the fact that he shot trayvon, but that isn't what the trial is about. as much as you and plenty of others who have an emotional stake in this whole circus for whatever reason want to believe, simply shooting someone doesn't = murder. my advice to you would be to actually follow the trial instead of getting your outlook from nancy grace.




I highly doubt his little cousin was lying when she accused him of rape

he stalked and killed an unarmed teenager at night in the pouring rain

he asked people to donate money for his legal defense and then instructed his wife to use the proceeds to pay bills over the phone while using code words like a "CRIMINAL"

how many more times does this guy have to prove that he's a piece of shit?

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Five_Felonies] #725065
07/09/13 12:18 PM
07/09/13 12:18 PM
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I am so afarid that no matter what happens here we are going to have a real race problem after this is over.- Signed OJ Simpson


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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725070
07/09/13 12:41 PM
07/09/13 12:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Five_Felonies Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
I highly doubt his little cousin was lying when she accused him of rape

he stalked and killed an unarmed teenager at night in the pouring rain

he asked people to donate money for his legal defense and then instructed his wife to use the proceeds to pay bills over the phone while using code words like a "CRIMINAL"

how many more times does this guy have to prove that he's a piece of shit?

like i said, its probably a good idea for you to at least watch some of the recaps from the trial, but what the hell, your mind is already made up so that would be a waste of time. given your failure to look at anything objectively even when there is evidence to at the very least call into question what you may think, i'm not the least bit surprised. look to the whole outfit saga on here for proof of that! so his little cousin was the one who accused him of rape, huh? funny, even a quick google search will show you that it was an un-named witness who made those claims, but thats probably worth overlooking! wink its very credible that the claims only came out once this whole circus started. its also unreasonable to think that it might have anything to do with character assassination, because so far at least we have surely not seen anything like that!

its also a very good thing that the evidence presented so far has made it crystal clear that the guy shot trayvon in the back as he was running away, as the forensic evidence has proved. thank god there were no visible injuries on the accused, because that might play on that whole outdated concept of reasonable doubt. seriously though, i think that someone should go to jail regardless, the hell with a trial! like you stated, he would then have justice(or revenge, fuck it same thing) served to him by "black males".


It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725111
07/09/13 04:16 PM
07/09/13 04:16 PM
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Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
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Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
I know yall don't think child rape is a big deal in Utah BUT IT IS

him raping his little cousin shows that he's a degenerate sociopath

and it's impossible to involuntarily shoot somebody

George Zimmerman will have plenty time to battle black males in prison


You're as clueless on this issue as you are on organized crime discussions. Nobody said child rape wasn't a big deal, Mr. Straw Man. But, assuming that happened, what does it have to do with this case? Look up the definitions of 2nd degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, and involuntary manslaughter. The latter seems to fit the Zimmerman situation the best.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725136
07/09/13 05:47 PM
07/09/13 05:47 PM
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@fivefelonies


you're sick in the head just like George Zimmerman

if there is a hell then it's full of people that think exactly like you


@ivyleague


polygamist camps is the only organized crime that you've ever witnessed

the fact that he raped his cousin shows his lack of character

people that lack character stalk teenagers in the pouring rain and then shoot them

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725140
07/09/13 05:52 PM
07/09/13 05:52 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
polygamist camps is the only organized crime that you've ever witnessed

the fact that he raped his cousin shows his lack of character

people that lack character stalk teenagers in the pouring rain and then shoot them



Notice how you keep taking personal shots, as well as keep going back to this alleged rape of his cousin, without addressing the present case at hand. "Stalk teenagers in the pouring rain" hardly sums it up but is just you being simplistic because you don't have an argument and are going on pure emotion. And I think I may have a good idea why.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/09/13 05:53 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725145
07/09/13 06:03 PM
07/09/13 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,449
New Jersey
Five_Felonies Offline
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New Jersey
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@fivefelonies


you're sick in the head just like George Zimmerman

if there is a hell then it's full of people that think exactly like you

all i have ot say to that is heh. so people who look at things as they have so far been presented are sick in the head and belong in hell? thats rich coming from someone who jumps into political discussions much like a new swimmer jumps into rough surf, totally unprepared and without a clue of what they are getting themselves into. let me give you a window into how a debate works: you offer up your own position. if someone disagrees with said position, you generally counter their arguments with some of your own, backed up by facts if you can muster it. you have done neither, and have resorted to cheesy personal attacks while ignoring info that was presented to you, very telling. wink my guess, you are probably one of those dopes calling for rioting if the verdict doesn't go your way, forget the fact that you don't have a clue whats going on from the start.

Originally Posted By: cookcounty
the fact that he raped his cousin shows his lack of character

some more advice, simply stating something as a fact does not make it so. i've already addressed this point, but again, much like anything else with you, you ignore anything that simply doesn't fit into your view of the way things are.

Last edited by Five_Felonies; 07/09/13 06:10 PM.

It's either blue cheese with wings or go fuck yer mudda!
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725147
07/09/13 06:12 PM
07/09/13 06:12 PM
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cookcounty Offline
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@ivyleague


there ain't much to discuss at this point

either you think Zimmerman should go to jail or you don't

a lot of people that want to see Zimmerman go free view him as a martyr


@fivefelonies


grow some balls and go do what Zimmerman did

don't idolize that sick bastard, be a copycat of that sick bastard

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725154
07/09/13 06:37 PM
07/09/13 06:37 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@ivyleague

there ain't much to discuss at this point

either you think Zimmerman should go to jail or you don't

a lot of people that want to see Zimmerman go free view him as a martyr


No, there isn't much to discuss because we've seen the evidence. I certainly don't see Zimmerman as some sort of martyr but I don't see Treyvon as a martyr either. What we have is an overzealous neighborhood watch guy who went beyond his role, got attacked by a thug, and pulled the trigger once he knew he was in over his head. Involuntary manslaughter? Yes. 2nd degree murder? No.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/09/13 06:37 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725193
07/09/13 08:58 PM
07/09/13 08:58 PM
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Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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When Zimmerman was first charged with the second degree murder indictment, I stated on here that I felt the prosecutors were bluffing and overcharged him in the hope that Zimmerman and his lawyers might accept a plea bargain for manslaughter, which I thought was the appropriate charge given the evidence that had come out at that time in the media.

After seeing this trial play out so far, in my opinion the evidence is not there/prosecutors have failed to prove that Zimmerman acted with "ill will," "hatred," and "an indifference to human life" -which is a requirement for a second degree murder conviction. In my opinion, there has been no compelling evidence thus far regarding Zimmerman's motive. At this point, the prosecution has clearly dropped the ball and I can see Zimmerman walking.

Just my two cents.

Last edited by Dapper_Don; 07/09/13 09:02 PM.

Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725194
07/09/13 09:07 PM
07/09/13 09:07 PM
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Posts: 17,300
New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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New York
DD, I think what enraged people when this first happened was that Zimmerman wasn't arrested. I don't know if actual murder was committed that night, we haven't seen all the facts yet. However, I do believe that an arrest and trial were warranted given the circumstances in order for such a determination to be made. Thankfully, that happened.


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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: IvyLeague] #725227
07/09/13 10:42 PM
07/09/13 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@ivyleague

there ain't much to discuss at this point

either you think Zimmerman should go to jail or you don't

a lot of people that want to see Zimmerman go free view him as a martyr


No, there isn't much to discuss because we've seen the evidence. I certainly don't see Zimmerman as some sort of martyr but I don't see Treyvon as a martyr either. What we have is an overzealous neighborhood watch guy who went beyond his role, got attacked by a thug, and pulled the trigger once he knew he was in over his head. Involuntary manslaughter? Yes. 2nd degree murder? No.




trayvon martin would've had a gun or a knife on him if he were a thug

George Zimmerman was playing rent-a-cop, accosted somebody and then shot him

I reiterate that if trayvon was a thug he would've had a weapon that night

George Zimmerman will have fun playing coppers and robbers in the can

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725232
07/09/13 10:55 PM
07/09/13 10:55 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
trayvon martin would've had a gun or a knife on him if he were a thug

George Zimmerman was playing rent-a-cop, accosted somebody and then shot him

I reiterate that if trayvon was a thug he would've had a weapon that night

George Zimmerman will have fun playing coppers and robbers in the can



You don't need to have a weapon to act like a thug. Trayvon demonstrated that. If he really had nothing to hide, he should have just ignored the rent-a-cop, and he'd still be alive.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: IvyLeague] #725237
07/09/13 11:03 PM
07/09/13 11:03 PM
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cookcounty Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
trayvon martin would've had a gun or a knife on him if he were a thug

George Zimmerman was playing rent-a-cop, accosted somebody and then shot him

I reiterate that if trayvon was a thug he would've had a weapon that night

George Zimmerman will have fun playing coppers and robbers in the can



You don't need to have a weapon to act like a thug. Trayvon demonstrated that. If he really had nothing to hide, he should have just ignored the rent-a-cop, and he'd still be alive.




if trayvon had something to hide then they woulda found it in his pockets

he ran from the rent-a-cop (zimmermans own words)

the rent-a-cop caught up with him and the rest is history

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725238
07/09/13 11:07 PM
07/09/13 11:07 PM
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Posts: 137
Florida these days
Logomassini Offline
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Zimmerman will go free. 100%. I'm living in Orlando these days and Sanford is just north east about 20 minutes and even all the people down here say the man defended himself with a gun which is totally except able in the fine state of Florida. Don't be thuggish around and breaking into houses if you don't want a "rent a cop" being suspicious of you.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Sicilian Babe] #725239
07/09/13 11:07 PM
07/09/13 11:07 PM
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Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
DD, I think what enraged people when this first happened was that Zimmerman wasn't arrested. I don't know if actual murder was committed that night, we haven't seen all the facts yet. However, I do believe that an arrest and trial were warranted given the circumstances in order for such a determination to be made. Thankfully, that happened.


I agree.

I don't think we will ever know all the actual facts of this case especially considering one of the participants is dead. So we have use what we got.

Last edited by Dapper_Don; 07/09/13 11:15 PM.

Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725253
07/09/13 11:34 PM
07/09/13 11:34 PM
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Travon knew people who just "Gave him" jewelry. Wedding rings, other items,


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3014413/posts

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725257
07/09/13 11:44 PM
07/09/13 11:44 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty

if trayvon had something to hide then they woulda found it in his pockets

he ran from the rent-a-cop (zimmermans own words)

the rent-a-cop caught up with him and the rest is history


Having something to hide doesn't necessarily mean something on his person. It could mean hiding whatever he was up to. If he wasn't up to anything, why did he run? Why did he attack Zimmerman? Yes, Zimmerman was acting like an overzealous rent-a-cop (who should have just waited for the real police) but Trayvon escalated the situation by acting like a thug.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725262
07/10/13 12:32 AM
07/10/13 12:32 AM
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@logomassini



trayvon martin was walking to his fathers girlfriends home

and he has no history of breaking into houses

have fun down in florida if Zimmerman walks free

yall better be ready to stand your ground when both parties have guns


@ivyleague

so it's okay for Zimmerman to stalk martin and then shoot him?

but it ain't alright for trayvon to defend himself against this lunatic?

go pull a George Zimmerman if you feel what he did was proper

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725272
07/10/13 01:26 AM
07/10/13 01:26 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@ivyleague

so it's okay for Zimmerman to stalk martin and then shoot him?

but it ain't alright for trayvon to defend himself against this lunatic?

go pull a George Zimmerman if you feel what he did was proper


While Zimmerman was being overzealous in his role, to say he was "stalking" Trayvon is absurd. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. It was then that Zimmerman defended himself by shooting Trayvon. Trayvon was the aggressor. If you had been paying attention to the case you would know this.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 07/10/13 01:35 AM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: IvyLeague] #725281
07/10/13 04:37 AM
07/10/13 04:37 AM
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MI
Lilo Offline
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MI
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@ivyleague

so it's okay for Zimmerman to stalk martin and then shoot him?

but it ain't alright for trayvon to defend himself against this lunatic?

go pull a George Zimmerman if you feel what he did was proper


While Zimmerman was being overzealous in his role, to say he was "stalking" Trayvon is absurd. Trayvon attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. It was then that Zimmerman defended himself by shooting Trayvon. Trayvon was the aggressor. If you had been paying attention to the case you would know this.


You have to have a pretty warped view of the world to think that an armed grown man following, confronting and then shooting an unarmed child wasn't the aggressor.

Trayvon was no "thug". He wasn't breaking into homes. He wasn't doing anything other than going home to his father. And the justification for using self-defense in the state of Florida does not apply to the person who provokes the attack.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #725282
07/10/13 04:43 AM
07/10/13 04:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Did Trayvon have a right to stand his ground and defend himself?
Or is that by definition not available to black people? Let's check the statute...


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: cookcounty] #725283
07/10/13 04:48 AM
07/10/13 04:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 23
B
BONANN0 Offline
Wiseguy
BONANN0  Offline
B
Wiseguy
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 23
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: cookcounty
@ivyleague

there ain't much to discuss at this point

either you think Zimmerman should go to jail or you don't

a lot of people that want to see Zimmerman go free view him as a martyr


No, there isn't much to discuss because we've seen the evidence. I certainly don't see Zimmerman as some sort of martyr but I don't see Treyvon as a martyr either. What we have is an overzealous neighborhood watch guy who went beyond his role, got attacked by a thug, and pulled the trigger once he knew he was in over his head. Involuntary manslaughter? Yes. 2nd degree murder? No.




trayvon martin would've had a gun or a knife on him if he were a thug

George Zimmerman was playing rent-a-cop, accosted somebody and then shot him

I reiterate that if trayvon was a thug he would've had a weapon that night

George Zimmerman will have fun playing coppers and robbers in the can



That's the dumbest argument I heard so far. Trayvon not having a weapon doesn't classify him as a thug? A lot of thugs, whatever department of crime to choose to pursue and lets say drugs for example aren't going to carry a weapon on them(at least on the street). They'll keep them close by, but if your a thug going to your boo's house then why would you pack a pistol or blade, it wasn't like he was walking thru the projects

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