GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies: The Godfather
The Godfather PART II - NEW!

Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Ciment), 97 guests, and 17 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
COresearcher, Batman, demonte41, JoeySarcs, legacyaustraliaKG
10381 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 73,917
DE NIRO 45,118
J Geoff 31,335
Hollander 31,139
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,721
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics43,474
Posts1,090,665
Members10,381
Most Online1,254
Mar 13th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
A man has but one destiny #7211
03/09/04 02:15 PM
03/09/04 02:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,203
USA
Don Pope Offline OP
Underboss
Don Pope  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,203
USA
As Vito Corleone said."A man has but one destiny" When he was young he was legit until he got fired from his job becuz a mob figures nephew was to work there, and his destiny was to take revenge a live the life of crime. I beleive mike had the same exact destiny, tho he tried to stay away from the family business he finally got sucked in. And when micheal tried to leave his destiny by trying to make his family legit, he got screwed over by the church and immobiliare deal. and then his daughter was killed becuz of him trying to go legit. I beleive that in this movie micheal tried to change his destiny by trying to go legit and then suffered the consequences, lose loads of money, don tommasino being killed, calo dying, and ultimetely miceals daughter being killed.


"Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" -Micheal Corleone

"Suck it up, take the fall, do the time. That makes you what you are, that makes you who you are." -John Gotti

"you heard of the new chinese godfather? He made em an offer they couldnt understand" -Corrado Soprano

"Ahhh, im gonna go wash up" -Paulie Gultiari
Re: A man has but one destiny #7212
03/09/04 02:21 PM
03/09/04 02:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Alonzo the Armless Offline
Made Member
Alonzo the Armless  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 146
Metro Detroit
Michael started as an idealistic man disgusted with killing, but circumstances did indeed cause him to go ne way starting with a world war and ending (in the movies) with the death of his beloved daughter. Great theory about being a mob boss being his fate. Coppola saw Michael as a tragic Shakespearean figure, and the main characters in Shakespeare tragedies also end due to their inescapable fate.

Re: A man has but one destiny #7213
03/09/04 02:44 PM
03/09/04 02:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
Michael had free choice at every turn, and he freely chose the Mob life, with disastrous results:
--He was right to think Sollozzo would try to kill his father after the failed hospital attempt. He was wrong to believe that only he could save his father, by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey. Ironically, an idea that Michael himself had suggested could have been modified to solve the problem bloodlessly. The Corleones could have fed the newspapermen on their payroll the story about McCluskey being a dishonest cop mixed up in drugs and murder before, not after, the trigger was pulled. McCluskey was on the take all his life, and the Corleones had all the details because they paid him. The newspapers would have given that story such headlines that the Police Commissioner would have been shamed into providing Vito with an army to protect him, to save further embarrassment. McCluskey and Sollozzo would have been neutralized without any bloodshed. At minimum, McCluskey would have been transferred or suspended pending investigation; with pressure from the Corleone judges, he’d have been indicted for taking bribes. Sollozzo would have been arrested and probably deported as an undesirable alien. With McCluskey alive, the cops would have had no reason to crack down on all Mob activities. There would have been no Five Families War of 1946, leaving it a contest between the Corleones and the Tattaglias—and as we know, Tattaglia was a pimp, alone he could never have outfought Santino. Michael could have married Kay and gone back to college (and we would have had no Godfather Trilogy!).
Instead, Michael chose to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey, setting in motion his abandonment of Kay, his Sicilian exile, the Five Families War, Carlo’s betrayal, Sonny’s murder, Apollonia’s murder.
There are plenty of other examples, too.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: A man has but one destiny #7214
03/09/04 07:19 PM
03/09/04 07:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 701
Connecticut
Don Lights Offline
Underboss
Don Lights  Offline
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 701
Connecticut
Turnbull brings up very good points and evidence that it was Michael who choose free will not following destiny towards his future. Still, the family needed Mike to save them from external destruction and if faced with the same problem, I probably would have tried to save my father and family from harm.

Re: A man has but one destiny #7215
03/10/04 01:54 AM
03/10/04 01:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,721
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by Don Lights:
Still, the family needed Mike to save them from external destruction and if faced with the same problem, I probably would have tried to save my father and family from harm.
True enough, DL. But even after the Sollozzo/McCluskey murders, Mike could have chosen out of the mob life. He could have resumed the legitimate life after returning from Sicily. He could have said to Vito: “Pop, I was wrong to distance myself from you. But I atoned: I saved your life. And I paid a heavy price: two murders, abandoned my beloved fiancée, lost months out of my life in Sicily, lost my beloved bride to a bomb intended for me. We’re quits. Now you run the family…Oh, not feeling well enough to take the reins? Fredo not equal to the task? Sorry, Pop, that’s not my problem. Besides, you always said you didn’t want this for me—you wanted me to be a pezzanovante. Well, I can’t be Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone if I’m Don Corleone. Bye-bye.”
Instead, Michael chose to become the Don, setting in motion Tessio’s betrayal, the Great Massacre of 1955, Connie’s widowhood and breakdown, and the beginning of Kay’s disillusionment with him.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: A man has but one destiny #7216
03/10/04 10:11 AM
03/10/04 10:11 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
B
Boss_of_bosses Offline
Underboss
Boss_of_bosses  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 775
No where
I think the Police Commissioner would do more than that. He would penalize any of his precinct Commanders for getting involved with a Narcotics peddler.

By saying this either he would Fire or Demote Captain Mc Clusky

Re: A man has but one destiny #7217
03/10/04 02:26 PM
03/10/04 02:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
... Instead, Michael chose to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey, setting in motion his abandonment of Kay, his Sicilian exile, the Five Families War, Carlo's betrayal, Sonny's murder, Apollonia's murder. There are plenty of other examples, too.
From this it could be surmized that Michael was a victim of his choices AND his destiny. For when making the decision to kill Sollozzo/McCluskey, he probably thought he'd simply hide out in Italy for a year while the Families battled it out... and then return home, perhaps to Kay & his old 'civilian' life. Even when saying goodbye, one of his last statements to Sonny was wondering how long before he could come home! Being a novice, he couldn't possibly look to the future & consider all the events that might be set in motion as a result of the murder he was about to commit, to save his father's life. He didn't think a bodyguard would betray him; didn't think Barzini would find him. He certainly didn't expect to meet and lose the great love of his life, the incident which (in my opinion) forever changed Michael Corleone and set the course for what he would become. I think if Vito had had any say in it whatsoever, he would have absolutely forbidden the murder of Sollozzo/McClusky by Michael because HE was mature enough to know the snowball effect it would forever have on his son's life.

Sure, Michael had but one destiny. I guess just being born into the Corleone Family may have determined it from the start. But that destiny really was the result of the choices & decisions he ultimately made.

Deep....really deep.

AppleOnYa


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: A man has but one destiny #7218
03/10/04 08:01 PM
03/10/04 08:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Paolo Violi Offline
Associate
Paolo Violi  Offline
Associate
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 8
Montréal, Québec, Canada
Don Pope, this idea of the a man having a destiny that he cannot do anything to avoid comes from Buddism, I think, and it's called Karma.

The GF trology deals with religion, but it's not buddhism, it's Christianity, more specifically Catholism.

And the catholic religion is very clear: if someone slaps you on the cheek, present him the other cheek. Although you can justify the murders of Barzini and McCluskey with the fifth commendement: Honour thy father and mother, there is no way to justify the murders of the heads of the five family, his brother, his brother-in-law, Roth, Hola, etc... as they were all done for either, revenge or money.

This is where GFIII becomes very important. GFIII is about a man trying to come clean with the law .... but more important, with god! But what god will forgive someone with Micheal Corleone ? Well the Holy Bible says that no matter what you did, if you are truly repentant, Christ will forgive you:


==========================================

MICHAEL

Trouble with diabetes. Blood sugar levels must be low.

<The priest returns promptly with orange juice and candy.>

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

I understand.

<Michael drinks the juice and eats some candy. It helps him.>

MICHAEL

When I'm under stress sometimes this happens.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

I understand.

MICHAEL

I come to you, on such a delicate matter -- accusations against your Archbishop -- was difficult for me.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

The mind suffers and the body, cries out.

MICHAEL

That's true.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

Would you like, to make your confession?

MICHAEL (laughs)

Your Eminence, I’m uh – I’m uh -- it's been so long, I wouldn't – wouldn’t – wouldn’t know where to uh, it's been thirty years, I'd – I’d – I’d use up too much of your time, I think.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

I always have time to save souls.

MICHAEL

Well, I'm -- I'm beyond redemption.

<Don Tommasino and a priest wheeling him approach>

CARDINAL LAMBERTO (to the priest looking after Don Tommasino, in Italian)

"Give us a couple of minutes alone please – thanks…"

<The priest leaves with Don Tommasino. Cardinal Lamberto leads Michael to a corner of the courtyard.>

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

I hear the confessions of my young priests here. Sometimes the desire to confess is overwhelming. And we must seize the moment.

MICHAEL

What is the point of confessing, if I don't repent?

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

I hear you are a practical man. What have you got to lose? Huh?

(then, after a long pause)

Go on.

MICHAEL

I uh, I betrayed my wife.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

Go on, my son.

MICHAEL

I betrayed myself.

(then)

I killed men.

(then)

And I ordered men to be killed.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

Go on, my son, go on.

MICHAEL

Nah, it's useless.

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

Go on, my son.

MICHAEL

I killed -- I ordered the death of my brother. He injured me. I killed my mother’s son. I killed my father's son.

<He breaks down in tears.>

CARDINAL LAMBERTO

Your sins are terrible, and it is just that you suffer. Your life, could be redeemed, but I know that you don't believe that. You will not change.

<He prays in Latin, absolving Michael.>


=================================

The message here is that if Michael is truly repentant, he will be forgiven, no mather how terrible his sins are. But is he ?

Not long after that, he makes peace with Kay and it is hinted that they might be back together in a not so distant future. At this point, Micheal has everything he ever wanted, It really looks like god has forgived him. And what does Michael do when Tommasino is murdered ? All he has to do to stop the Bloodshed is to get out Luccesi's way, even if it means forgetting the 200 millions he already invested (this money was gained with things like prostitution and gambling, all sins in the eyes of god). That would be the way to redeem himself:

====================================
MICHAEL

Goodbye my old friend. You could have lived a little longer, I could be closer to my dream.

(then)

You were so loved, Don Tommasino. Why was I so feared, and you so loved? What was it? I was no less honorable. I wanted to do good.

(then, as Michael cries)

What betrayed me? My mind? My heart? Why do I condemn myself so?

(then, in prayer)

I swear, on the lives of my children: Give me a chance to redeem myself, and I will sin, no more.

=============================================

Instead, with Vincent, he orders the death of 5 persons. All that after god forgave him a life of crimes, including murders of members of his family.

This is the difference between Buddhism and Chritianity. In the first, your destiny is set whatever you do, in the second you have free will at each step.

When I first saw the movie, I saw it as a divine intervention when Mosca only superficially injures Mike on the first shot and kills Mary with the second. It is said during the movie that Mosca never miss. How come he missed this time ?

I think that god, in his fury, does not want Michael dead. He wants him alive and suffering. 17 years of self-condamnation....


Moderated by  J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™