Thanks for the reply.

Pretty much what I've read and almost exactly what was stated to me in a phone conversation with an Outfit historian. For what it's worth, the individual with whom I spoke said that Paul Ricca became upset after both he and Accardo talked to Giancana about McGuire. He specifically mentioned McGuire and his statement about Giancana was that he "wasn't minding the store." One other individual stated that SOME of his men became disenchanted because he was missing meetings, etc.

I had not heard the story about Cerone trying to strong-arm a widow. I am aware that
Cerone did not belong to the Taylor St. Crew; I thought he was with Grand Ave. But my point was that he worked with Buccieri, Torello and others at different times. I believe he was present when William Jackson was dispatched. I was just kinda surprised that he was so disliked but worked with these guys from Giancana's old crew.

Accardo, Ricca and Giancana did a lot of work in the 30's, 40's and 50's. I suppose at some point money, power and ego eventually come into play.

I read Roemer's book, along with every other book published about The Outfit, and there were some errors. I did learn a lot..........about Mr. Roemer! I'm sure he was a a good public servant trying to provide the fine citizens of Chicago with a better quality of life. But his book about Accardo focused too much on Mr. Roemer. Enough said.

I appreciate the response and will probably come back with more questions and comments. I enjoy learning, but have no tolerance for name-calling and volatile comments. Respectful discussions are beneficial and worthwhile, disrespecting individuals and their opinions is not.

Hi Gary, No problem. My father not only belonged to the Taylor St. Crew but was direct with Cigar. The other guys in the Crew were either with Fifi (Bucciere) or Teets (Battaglia). My father was one of Sam's closest confidants. He got killed in 1985. That was a very humbling traumatic experience for me. Have never recovered from it. Perhaps talking a little on these Boards may help me.
As far as Cerone was concerned, He was ORDERED to take part in some heavy work. Sam liked to sometimes give Cerone some work that he knew he wouldn't like doing. He did this because Cerone would go and cry behind his back to Accardo about every little thing. Accardo would then tell Paul who would then discuss it with Sam. Accardo saved Cerone from being killed many, many times.

If one looks at the media reports over the past decade, some have said DiFronzo was the boss, while others have said there was disagreement among mob experts about who was the top guy. However, if what we've been saying is correct, it seems others already have taken over from DiFronzo. Both Marcello and Sarno were acting bosses and seemed to be much more in control of at least the day-to-day affairs of the mob in Chicago. And we have to remember that they didn't necessarily have to be acting for anyone, be it DiFronzo or whoever. They could have been acting simply because the Outfit didn't want to install an official (i.e. permanent) boss. We've seen that in New York in more recent times.



Well, there was Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo.

Hi Ivy, Yeh I know, except Jarrett was in 1999 and Chiaramonte was in 2001. Correct me if I'm wrong on those years. That would be 12 and 14 years ago. So, really, in the last 12 years, it's only been Zizzo who disappeared. The confusion among the Mob Watchers is that some of them can't believe DiFronzo retreated. You gotta take my word on this one Ivy, the guy retreated a long time ago. So did Lombardo. And, if you notice, Jarrett (1999) was the 26th St. Crew, Chiaramonti (2001) was Cicero and Zizzo (2006) was Cicero. Nothing to do with the North. Any further thoughts?

Did Andriacchi retreat as well? Or was he more active?

Is there anybody in the Northside that is active? Loans, bookmaking, gambling, etc, etc?

You don't have to sell me on DiFronzo. I largely believe it. And you make a good point about the last known hits being related to the Cicero and 26th Street crews. And those years are correct.

Geez Chicago i think your very well informed on the Outfit and the more you post the more I feel the outfit is becoming extinct.

This is very surprising to me as back in the day i put them close to the Columbo level in terms of strength ( I always had lucchese as a very strong family as I have some distant relatives that were in the family years ago ( Pappadio and Panica's ). It's shocking how far they have fallen but with the lack of arrests , violence and reduction in sharking / booking activities and extortion all but gone , what do they really have left outside of No Nose legit businesses . Geez even if he is a dry beefer , I bet some guys still kiss his ass just to get some scraps and eek out a middle class living .

PP, Yes, Andriacchi retreated several years ago with DiFronzo. So Did Lombardo and Pete DiFronzo. They all retreated together. Andriacchi is in the Construction business just like the DiFronzo Brothers. That's why they call him Joey the Builder. All of these men were born and raised on Grand Ave. The Elmwood Park Crew & The Grand Ave. Crew, for all intents and purposes, have been shelved for several years. Lombardo was convicted in the Family Secrets trial for a murder he committed in 1974. I know Lombardo's brother, Rocky Lombardo, and he has nothing to do with anything anymore. He was working at the Crazy Horse Too in Vegas but that place was closed down. The only trouble Rocky ever had was with the I.R.S.
If there are some people on the North Side active in Street Bookmaking, they are doing it on their own or they are independants doing it not partnering with a big powerful syndicate like years ago. Same with Loan sharking. Loan Sharking is even more risky. The minute a collector from the Outfit would lean on someone, they would run to the F.B.I. and get wired. The next time they tried it, the Feds would swoop in to make their case.

ain't D'Amico a gambling guy that's from the northside?

DB, I don't mean to seem too pessimistic, but I do not see a bright future for the Oufit. The one guy who could have rallied the troops, made more men and helped the Outfit was Jimmy Marcello. He lost several million. But with him in jail, Sarno gone, the retreatment of Elmwood Park and Grand Ave., I don't see a bright future. Plus that, it seems like the Feds know everything they do.
Yes, back in the old days, The Outfit had 3 times the manpower and they all marched to the tune of the same drummer. Sure, it could be argued that the Oufit was pretty much on an equal par years ago with at least 3 of the New York Families. No question. They practically owned the City of Chicago. Legitimate business seems the only survival along with Union activity. I don't see any future with Poker Machines, Traditional Bookmaking or traditional Loan Sharking.
However, Loan Sharking can be done legitimately through loan Centers. The interest Rates are much lower, but you can make money in it. You can also make a lot of money in Construction and getting servicing Contracts from the City and the suburbs. But that is basically all legit with some White Collar Crime attached to it. At that point, then you are really not a Mafioso anymore but instead a good cunning business man. That's really where the future lies. You know what I mean?
you're ABSOLUTELY right about some asskissing that goes on toward DiFronzo. The North Side guys kiss his ass and the South Side guys resent him and and PRIVATLEY question the dry beefing that might be going on.

Yes, Marco D'Amico is in the Elmwood Park crew. However, he is involved in off shore gambling that is legit. He also is worth several million and owns a lot of land. He is not involved in Street Bookmaking, Loan Sharking or Poker Machines. He went to jail in 1995 and was in prison for 10 years. He retreated in 2005 and is basically legit with the DiFronzo's.

Thanks for the posts, Chicago. You are the most interesting new poster in quite some time

I've seen some others post this before about DiFronzo, D'Amico, etc. having interests in legitimate offshore gambling. Where exactly is this coming from? Are you talking about the Excelsior casino in Aruba?

Yes Ivy, I believe that's the casino. There's some guy out there who's not Italian that is a front. I'm sorry but I forgot his name. He used to be on the North side involved in gambling.

Little Nicky, This story is for you. If and when elmwoodparker ever comes back, he's going to be really upset. His Uncle's name is Joe Lombardi. This guy was a soldier/collector in the Elmwood Park Crew and worked under Willie Messino who was a made guy with Cerone. He and Willie, after they got out of prison in 1977, had a major falling out. Lombardi thought he was equal to Willie. LOL. To make a long story short, Cerone ordered Lombardi to apologize to Willie. Lombardi was the type of guy who would never apologize to anyone and was always right about everything. A real Mr. Know it all. Anyway, Lombardi sent a basket of fruit to Willie to make amends. Willie refused The Basket! Lombardi was now livid. But, there was nothing he could do about it. A soldier/collector cannot have a sit down with his boss( made guy). It would never happen. So, Cerone kept Lombardi in the Crew and put him to work under another made guy. Lombardi had done 7 years from 1970 to 1977 in prison and then in 1998 another 2 years for a Loan Sharking bust in 1993. Lombardi was never made and given his own chance to manage something because Willie BLACKBALLED HIM. Pete DiFronzo didn't like him and thought he was a loud mouthed know it all who was too uncontrollable. Well, from what I read on these boards, like uncle like nephew.

Mike Posner

What?

Responding to Chicago. The front in Aruba

That's exactly how i thought of it. At first he seemed quite credible but then he started spamming the site with Donnie Brasco references lol. At that point i couldn't take him seriously anymore. The death of his credibility came when he attempted to school probably the most knowlegable person on the Sicilian Mafia on the site. In the end he was an expert on the NY,Chicago,Sicilian,Detroit and La families lol.

Elmwood seemed to be quite knowledgeable and spoke (posted) in a manner in which it made me doubt that he was just imagining the entire thing. While I do believe he knew what he was talking about to a certain extent, he just refused to accept any alternatives to his posts and could not get along with anyone who offered differing thoughts and opinions.

Chicago, your info is great and I really enjoy reading your posts. Regarding the sentence in bold, isn't the point of this whole thing to make money? If they are moving into more legitimate things while still having a (somewhat) formalized structure and making money, isn't that just the mob evolving? Getting into more white collar stuff seems preferable than the street rackets from a money-making point of view. Another question is how does the white collar stuff get handed down once guys die? Does the business go to a blood relative (through a will) or does control somehow get transferred to another made guy? Would love to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks.

Elmwood was good on the Old Outfit. Real good. But on the current Outfit he was weak and wanted it to be better than it was because he was competing with the New York Posters for some strange reason. I think if he only stuck to the old Outfit he was in love with and forgot about all that stupid Donnie Brasco nonsense (Believe me, the 5 New York families in 1981 were powerhouses) and stopped competing (The 5 New York Families are presently in 2013 on a definitely higher level than the Oufit) he would have been okay.

baldo, very very good question. That's the whole point. Through natural evolution of things, the legitimate businesses will be run by relatives and there really won't be a neccesity to have an Outfit. The men running Companies will have their own type of networking and they'll work together when it's mutually profitable for both parties much the same way any legitimate network of business interests work together today in the legitimate world. Another Point, the Businesses will not be tranfered after death by a will because they are currently not in the name of the Outfit guys who have retreated. Believe me, John and Pete do not own their big Construction Company on paper. Another relative already LEGALLY owns it.

I guess at that point, when your completely legitimate, you won't need any muscle. You think these heirs to the fortune will continue to engage in white collar crime or is it pretty much on the up and up as far you know? Thanks again.

I stay in the south suburbs....there's a future in poker machines

them mothafuckas are everywhere

why would northsiders kiss difronzo's ass if he won't let them eat?

to quote george anastasia "if the mob doesnt kill anyone is it still the mob?"

Aren't poker machines in Illinois legal now? How has/will this effect the Outfit's interests?

They're legal but some people get illegal ones still to make more money.

they've already made decent money while they were illegal

they own a good amount of companies that manufacture the poker machines

so the establishments that want poker machines buy them from their company

I don't know how the profit of the machines is split since they're legal now

baldo, I would say it's basically legit with white collar crime attached to it through connections with the City and suburbs where some people can be bribed for business.