Since Tom was a consigliere, does that mean he was made? But how could he be, not being Italian?
Also, were there any similar examples in real life, when somebody not made had an official position in the mafia? I think I read somewhere Milton Rockman was a consigliere for the Cleveland family, while not being made.

Since none of we Board members are Mafioso (as far as we know), all of our knowledge about the Mafia is anecdotal. Supposedly to be inducted one has to murder someone. There's nothing in the novel or films to indicate that Tom murdered any one. Puzo and FFC took liberties with much of the novel's and film's content to create a story. This was one of them.

Tom was an exception to the rule. Vito loved him as a son, and Michael respected Vito too much to get rid of Tom completely. Michael demoted Tom while Vito was alive from consigliere to "our lawyer in Vegas" on the grounds that he was not a wartime consigliere. Tom kind of wormed his way back in after Vito died, and especially after the hit in Tahoe. While he wasn't made, he came pretty close in the Geary blackmail. He had a direct hand in the murder of the prositute, and even had to give Neri a dirty look to keep the whole thing a secret.

He was also directly involved into sending Tessio on his last car ride and talking Frankie into suicide , so thats probably close enough.

I don't know about real life consiglieres, and leave that one to people who know more about the mob than I.

That's a myth.

Murray Humphreys, who wasn't officially inducted in the Mafia, was also basically a consigliere for the Outfit who had tremendous influence.

...and so did Meyer Lanksy, who was, in effect, Charlie Luciano's consigliere, and who was a close adviser to other Dons, including Frank Costello.

Re. Hagen: One of the nice things about being a Don (especially the most powerful Don) is that you can do just about anything you want to--including naming a college graduate/lawyer/German-Irish/non-muscle person as your consigliere.

[quote=Turnbull
Re. Hagen: One of the nice things about being a Don (especially the most powerful Don) is that you can do just about anything you want to--including naming a college graduate/lawyer/German-Irish/non-muscle person as your consigliere. [/quote]


OR letting your personal feelings for a step son get in the way of cold hearted judgment. Tom was trained as a lawyer, and not as a crime boss. Sonny was the heir apparent. Even Michael was skeptical about a non-Sicilian consigliere way before he got into the family business. He even mentioned it to Kay during the wedding scene.

It is all about TRUST. Without out it you have nothing!
It seems to me like Tom takes the blame for everything that came up wrong at times.
Scapegoat, whipping boy seems to come to mind after a while.

It basically was one of the few bad moves made by Vito. This and sending Luca Brasi on that spy mission is what almost got him killed. Clearly, by 1945, Vito was slipping. And his rivals, lurking like hyenas and sensing weakness, made their move.

Correct Sonny. Vito so much as admits it at the Solozzo meeting when it becomes clear that he can't even control his own son and heir apparent who is trying to negotiate the drug deal with Sol AFTER Vito has said "No." Vito says something like, as you can see I have a sentimental weakness for my children." He is admitting to Sol and everyone else that he is lettting sentiment and weakness get in the way of sound business judgment. If he knew Sonny would react that way he should have warned him in advance or kept him out of the meeting. Even Fredo, who was at that meeting, had the good sense to keep his mouth shut.

Yes, but Sonny wanted to be a leader, not a follower like Fredo.

As he got older he thought he had more rights because he was Vito,s main son. Following in his fathers foot steps. He wanted to show his father how much he thought he knew. Which we all know he didn't.

Well, Sonny was the "Crown Prince" and in those days the oldest son took over from the father. I wonder if Fredo had been born first...what would Vito have done than?

A lot of theories have been floated around about what Vito's plans were for Michael and the consensus was that he would be in the "legitimate" world as some kind of judge or politician or maybe even a union leader, using Hagen as a go between with the family, leaving Sonny in charge of the Olive Oil business.

From the many scenes (look closely at GF II when Michael was a baby and again when he was a small child) in the first two films, I get the sense that Vito knew Michael was the smartest of his sons, and that he desperately needed him with Tom's help to be some kind of check on Sonny's bad temper and poor negotiating skills. Of course Vito could never predict Sonny's death, but he also did not see the incipient sibling rivalry between Michael and Tom, e.g. "You discuss MY future with MY father?"

I don't think that anyone outside of the Mob even knew what "making" a guy meant back when the movie came out. FFC probably had no real idea of the significance of it within the Mafia.I mean you have Michael doing the hits on Sol and McCluskey,the massacre of the other Bosses,and the power and wealth he brought to the Corleones. Surely at some point ,he would have "taken the oath",but I don't recall any mention or reference to him getting made.
I think that if the movie came out today,you would almost have to include a formal making ceremony,and at least a few mentions of "made' guys,because the movie-going public is more aware and sophisticated when it comes to Mob matters than it was in 1972.

Joe Valachi revealed the Mafia induction ceremony during his testimony before the US Senate in 1963.

I agree that back then there was some public knowledge as far as Mob ritual.I meant to say that when the movie came out,the average person on the street wouldn't be as familiar with the term as they are now. Back then you wouldn't hear a bunch of guys in a bar after their softball game talking about "made guys" and "gettin' whacked". However,the phrase "sleeps with the fishes" might have slipped in.

In the godfather returns it's describes when Michael was made. A few months after he returned from Sicily he was sent to meet his father at Genco Olive Oil, where Vito and Tom initiated him by sticking his finger with a knife, Michael then smeared his blood on a picture of a saint which is then set on fire with a candle, he then recites that if he ever betrays his family he will burn as this picture does