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Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720504
06/14/13 08:33 PM
06/14/13 08:33 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
I love how you say I lost all credibility. You defending the US mob makes you have no credibility. You rely on FBI info and by the time you get it the investigation started 10 years before and the whole landscape is nowhere near what it is in the present. We use to laugh at the articles and write ups. Alliances, power, etc changes so quicly. The underworld is so fast paced if your reference is the media then you know absolutely nothing but history.


You talk as if you're are somehow privy to more up to date info than the rest of us. But it's obvious to me you're just talking out of your ass. One doesn't just have to look at quotes by the FBI. They can also look at cases in recent years, which show the mob in New York is still very much alive and not just "history." But, like many others before you, you're lazy, content to be ignorant, and don't bother to do that.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720516
06/14/13 11:48 PM
06/14/13 11:48 PM
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Posts: 525
So-Cal
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With all do respect to livelifenoregrets, but the guys who are running crews and made guys in general seem to have an average age of about 75. Furthermore, a joke? Lets see what happens if they start laying down 20 years for video poker machines and laying down 3 years for eating spaghetti and meatballs with a friend for violations of "supervised release". I guarantee you half of you guys would be singing like canaries. 3 years! HAHAHAH. Come on man. Try 10 for jaywalking!
And your prices are way off man, you would be getting drilled in the arse with slim margins on the sale side.

Last edited by vinnietoothpicks26; 06/14/13 11:53 PM.

Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #720523
06/15/13 12:19 AM
06/15/13 12:19 AM
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LittleNicky Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Not that I disagree with the general point, ivy- but isn't using FBI agents quotes particularly weak evidence? I mean these guys livelihood depends on strong and viable mob. If the mob is weak or just running video poker- that means no FBI mafia squads, no convictions, and therefore no outrageous government funding and no more gigs.

As sinclair put it "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"


No, because even without a viable LCN family in their jurisdiction, any FBI office has plenty of other things to deal with. They have no need to make up threats that aren't there. Which is why they recognize 10 remaining families at most now, rather than two dozen or so.


Are you seriously disputing the fact that the FBI and a number of high end federal prosecutors have a financial/political/media incentives to both inflate the power and influence of the mob? Nobody claimed as you said they left with nothing to do- but there is no doubt they get far better media time, federal government gigs and resume builders for locking up a dangerous Don Vito-like "mobster" (ie runs poker machines) than locking up a crip drug dealer or rapist in the projects.

Last edited by LittleNicky; 06/15/13 12:20 AM.

Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: LittleNicky] #720544
06/15/13 09:39 AM
06/15/13 09:39 AM
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cookcounty Offline
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Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Not that I disagree with the general point, ivy- but isn't using FBI agents quotes particularly weak evidence? I mean these guys livelihood depends on strong and viable mob. If the mob is weak or just running video poker- that means no FBI mafia squads, no convictions, and therefore no outrageous government funding and no more gigs.

As sinclair put it "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"


No, because even without a viable LCN family in their jurisdiction, any FBI office has plenty of other things to deal with. They have no need to make up threats that aren't there. Which is why they recognize 10 remaining families at most now, rather than two dozen or so.


Are you seriously disputing the fact that the FBI and a number of high end federal prosecutors have a financial/political/media incentives to both inflate the power and influence of the mob? Nobody claimed as you said they left with nothing to do- but there is no doubt they get far better media time, federal government gigs and resume builders for locking up a dangerous Don Vito-like "mobster" (ie runs poker machines) than locking up a crip drug dealer or rapist in the projects.




not too mention that the feds have to justify arresting their target

they call everybody "smooth criminal" in press releases

but rapist in the projects have no longevity.....u get killed for that

Last edited by cookcounty; 06/15/13 09:40 AM.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720546
06/15/13 09:52 AM
06/15/13 09:52 AM
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TommyGambino Offline
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Lol@ the canadians saying montreal mafia is more powerful then the US, rizzutos dominated for decades and in theyre prime they had 20 made guys! Gambinos genovese lucchessd and bonnanos are all far more powerful on theyre own, even the colombos who are pretty much destroyed are about on par.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: LittleNicky] #720567
06/15/13 02:29 PM
06/15/13 02:29 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Are you seriously disputing the fact that the FBI and a number of high end federal prosecutors have a financial/political/media incentives to both inflate the power and influence of the mob? Nobody claimed as you said they left with nothing to do- but there is no doubt they get far better media time, federal government gigs and resume builders for locking up a dangerous Don Vito-like "mobster" (ie runs poker machines) than locking up a crip drug dealer or rapist in the projects.


If that was all they were interested in, why even in New York have the feds downgraded organized crime as a priority since 9/11, including downsizing and combining the squads that go after the 5 NY families? Why do they only recognize 10 remaining mob families, at most, when they could easily say there are more? Any those Crip drug-dealers and rapists get busted all the time. Too many people here just don't do their research.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #720576
06/15/13 06:05 PM
06/15/13 06:05 PM
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Scorsese Offline
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gangs get investigated all the time just due to the fact that theres thousands of them. Also agents that are assigned to investigate lcn are believe it or not going to arrest a few of them every now and then. You cant blame them for doing what they have been assigned to do.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720898
06/18/13 02:51 AM
06/18/13 02:51 AM
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Posts: 202
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elmwoodparker Offline
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livelifenoregrets, You are basically correct. The New York Mafia( at least 4 of the 5 remaining Families) are an embarrassment, Rat infested, and Blue Collar small minded. The Chicago Outfit and the Detroit Mafia are much closer to the old Sicilian clan roots of being related by blood or marriage. The only big difference, is that the Chicago Outfit and the Detroit Partnership are basically White Collar while the Sicilian Clans main business is Narcotics. In America, the old BLUE COLLAR Mafia has no future. Some day in the future, the Canadian Mafia will face the same problems. It's only a matter of time.

Last edited by elmwoodparker; 06/18/13 02:52 AM.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #720899
06/18/13 02:58 AM
06/18/13 02:58 AM
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elmwoodparker Offline
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Ivy, The reason why there are still some cases in New York is because they are still involved (in a smaller way than the past) with blue collar street activity like street Bookmaking and Loan Sharking. The reason why there is very little heard about cases in Chicago and Detroit is because they are INVOLVED IN WHITE COLLAR ACTIVITY which is much harder to prove any wrong doing. It's much more difficult to prosecute, let alone prove, union activity, bid rigging of major city contracts and so forth. The most recent was the bid rigging prosecution of Rudy Fratto. This is the kind of activity the Chicago Outfit of 2013 is involved in. So, it's very debatable, even among the Feds, as to whether the Outfit is weaker or just DIFFERENT. As far as street muscle, the Outfit and the entire American Mafia is weaker than years ago. No question. However, like Don Corleone said in the Godfather, a lawyer with a brief case can steal more money than a 1,000 men with guns. That's the ideology of the Outfit and the Detroit Partnership in 2013. Read your precious F.B.I. reports more closely, and you will see this is what they are saying about Chicago. They just don't have a handle on it because it's much less obvious than what was done years ago. Potentially, there is more money in the long run in White Collar Activity than in Blue Collar Activity. There is also much less risk of being prosecuted or convicted which means very little or no prison time and much less attorney fees. The days of Sam DeStefano and other guys from the Taylor Street Crew are long, long gone and will never return.

Last edited by elmwoodparker; 06/18/13 03:14 AM.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: elmwoodparker] #720905
06/18/13 03:50 AM
06/18/13 03:50 AM
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Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: elmwoodparker
Ivy, The reason why there are still some cases in New York is because they are still involved (in a smaller way than the past) with blue collar street activity like street Bookmaking and Loan Sharking. The reason why there is very little heard about cases in Chicago and Detroit is because they are INVOLVED IN WHITE COLLAR ACTIVITY which is much harder to prove any wrong doing. It's much more difficult to prosecute, let alone prove, union activity, bid rigging of major city contracts and so forth. The most recent was the bid rigging prosecution of Rudy Fratto. This is the kind of activity the Chicago Outfit of 2013 is involved in. So, it's very debatable, even among the Feds, as to whether the Outfit is weaker or just DIFFERENT. As far as street muscle, the Outfit and the entire American Mafia is weaker than years ago. No question. However, like Don Corleone said in the Godfather, a lawyer with a brief case can steal more money than a 1,000 men with guns. That's the ideology of the Outfit and the Detroit Partnership in 2013. Read your precious F.B.I. reports more closely, and you will see this is what they are saying about Chicago. They just don't have a handle on it because it's much less obvious than what was done years ago. Potentially, there is more money in the long run in White Collar Activity than in Blue Collar Activity. There is also much less risk of being prosecuted or convicted which means very little or no prison time and much less attorney fees. The days of Sam DeStefano and other guys from the Taylor Street Crew are long, long gone and will never return.


Using movies as references again lol

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Camarel] #720906
06/18/13 03:56 AM
06/18/13 03:56 AM
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elmwoodparker Offline
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Yeh, why not? There's a lot a truth to that statement. They must not have lawyers in Scotland. lol

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720935
06/18/13 09:16 AM
06/18/13 09:16 AM
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Posts: 1,769
Massachusetts, USA
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123JoeSchmo Offline
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They fact that you're using movie references from Donnie Brasco and the godfather kind of diminish your credibility in some respect. However that being said I do think you have a point with your post. White collar crime is becoming much more frequent in American LCN these days

Last edited by 123JoeSchmo; 06/18/13 09:18 AM.

"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: 123JoeSchmo] #720971
06/18/13 12:12 PM
06/18/13 12:12 PM
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elmwoodparker Offline
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The Godfather was a fictional movie. Donnie Brasco was non fictional unless of course you don't want to believe agent Pistone because he told the truth about the Bonanno Family.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: elmwoodparker] #720980
06/18/13 01:06 PM
06/18/13 01:06 PM
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Massachusetts, USA
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123JoeSchmo Offline
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Originally Posted By: elmwoodparker
The Godfather was a fictional movie. Donnie Brasco was non fictional unless of course you don't want to believe agent Pistone because he told the truth about the Bonanno Family.


Truth about what? Yeah they got hit pretty bad. They came back to prominence under Joe Massino and then he flipped, and they haven't been the same since.


"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #721055
06/18/13 08:14 PM
06/18/13 08:14 PM
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tiger84 Offline
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Hey elmwoodparker i like your posts on chicago,I like getting the local level info.

That being said noone is deneying that the colombo family is pathetic BUT they are in NY.Its like the best collage football team (chicago mob) against the worst NFL team (colombo).The worst NFL team will still beat the best collage team.If Chicagos is now going old school and only making blood ties that is extremely stupid because eventually they weill run out of recruits and are missing oppurtunities to have capable guys join their fold who will go and earn bythemselves

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #721060
06/18/13 08:24 PM
06/18/13 08:24 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Elmwoodparker (who has been suspended again, thank God) isn't even worth responding to anymore. When it comes to him, you're not talking to an objective observer. Or even a knowledgeable one. This guy constantly references MOVIES to make his case. The Outfit is the "real life Corleone family," while the NY families are all standing around cracking into parking meters (i.e. Donnie Brasco). rolleyes It's obvious he's just here to hype his hometown mob family like many others have done before.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #721118
06/19/13 02:03 AM
06/19/13 02:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 699
Illinois
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Chicago Offline
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Ivy, I read a lot of elmwoodparker's postings. He wasn't all wrong and seemed fairly knowledgeable about the Older Outfit. It seemed like he was on some kind of mission to antagonize anyone who thought any of the New York Groups were superior to The Outfit. He also invented in his own mind what the Outfit is today. In reality, it is only a shadow of what it used to be. Attrition, law enforcement & John DiFronzo, have brought the Outfit to an all time low. He kind of sounded like a little kid who was upset that his heroes really don't exist anymore.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Chicago] #721218
06/19/13 06:58 PM
06/19/13 06:58 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chicago
Ivy, I read a lot of elmwoodparker's postings. He wasn't all wrong and seemed fairly knowledgeable about the Older Outfit. It seemed like he was on some kind of mission to antagonize anyone who thought any of the New York Groups were superior to The Outfit. He also invented in his own mind what the Outfit is today. In reality, it is only a shadow of what it used to be. Attrition, law enforcement & John DiFronzo, have brought the Outfit to an all time low. He kind of sounded like a little kid who was upset that his heroes really don't exist anymore.


That pretty much sums it up. It's not that some of these Chicago posters don't have good information to pass on. But the ones who drift into "fanboyism" shoot their own credibility down. It's hard to be objective when you're basically rooting for your hometown crime family like it's the local football team.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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