2 registered members (majicrat, Captbony1999),
100
guests, and 36
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics43,474
Posts1,090,380
Members10,381
|
Most Online1,254 Mar 13th, 2025
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#720806
06/17/13 02:10 PM
06/17/13 02:10 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718 Berlin, Germany
Danito
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
|
Frankie was still subordinate to Michael. Fact. Oh, now you convinced me.  We don't see in any way that he was subordinate to Michael. Michael just treats him that way. He has to stand in line when he wants to talk to him, he gives him orders, etc. As we know, the Frankie character was a quick fix because Castellano refused to play the original Clemenza character, a subordinate to Vito and perhaps Michael. So we must see Frankie as some kind of variation of Clemenza who inherited the New York empire of the Corleones. Michael let him do his own stuff but he demanded total loyalty and even obedience, even though there was no more hierarchical structure to support that authority.
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Danito]
#720812
06/17/13 03:06 PM
06/17/13 03:06 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
|

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
|
So we must see Frankie as some kind of variation of Clemenza who inherited the New York empire of the Corleones. Michael let him do his own stuff but he demanded total loyalty and even obedience, even though there was no more hierarchical structure to support that authority.
Well put. As I posted above, the novel states that Clemenza had his own family. When he died, who took its reins? Well, the only film link are Michael's statements to Frankie: "CLEMENZA promised the Rosato brothers three territories in the Bronx after he died. You took over, and you didn't give it to them." "I was very happy that this house never went to strangers -- first CLEMENZA took it over, now you." And I almost forgot about this: PENTANGELI" I -- I -- I never know no Godfather.I got my own family, SENATOR.
Last edited by olivant; 06/17/13 03:13 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Danito]
#720817
06/17/13 03:30 PM
06/17/13 03:30 PM
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
|
We don't see in any way that he was subordinate to Michael. Michael just treats him that way. Are you sure you've seen the movie, because taken aside a drunk Frankie at Anthony's communion celebration, he acts subordinate to Michael in about every way. Michael ordered Frankie to make peace with the Rosatos, because he was doing important business with Hyman Roth and didn't want it disturbed, and Frankie followed those orders, even though he hated the Rosatos and wanted to eliminate them. Michael let him do his own stuff but he demanded total loyalty and even obedience, even though there was no more hierarchical structure to support that authority. There was still an official hierarchy, confirmed by the chart that was shown at the Senate hearings. Those are the facts presented by the film. As to whether the chart was accurate or not is mere speculation and depends on your own imagination, also known as fanfiction.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#720828
06/17/13 06:00 PM
06/17/13 06:00 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032 Texas
olivant
|

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,032
Texas
|
Could Frankie have been a "front boss"? In the old days, some Bosses used a guy to act as "Boss", like, to play the role of Boss and even be treated as such, to take the heat off the real Boss. Tony Accardo ruled the Outfit in Chcago for a long time while for some of that time Sam Giancana was the front boss. But everyone knew who was the real boss. So, could Frankie have been a boss in that sense? Yes. Still, as I posted above, at the Senate hearing, Frankie testifies that he had his own family.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: olivant]
#720850
06/17/13 09:25 PM
06/17/13 09:25 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
Mr_Willie_Cicci
OP
Made Member
|
OP
Made Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
|
Could Frankie have been a "front boss"? In the old days, some Bosses used a guy to act as "Boss", like, to play the role of Boss and even be treated as such, to take the heat off the real Boss. Tony Accardo ruled the Outfit in Chcago for a long time while for some of that time Sam Giancana was the front boss. But everyone knew who was the real boss. So, could Frankie have been a boss in that sense? Yes. Still, as I posted above, at the Senate hearing, Frankie testifies that he had his own family. I think when he says "I have my own family", he's talking about his blood family. Not a Mafia family. Sort of like how in real life when John Gotti was asked if he was the boss of the Gambino Crime Family, he replied he was a member of the Gotti family and his wife was the boss.
Last edited by Mr_Willie_Cicci; 06/17/13 09:26 PM.
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci]
#721007
06/18/13 04:28 PM
06/18/13 04:28 PM
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
|
Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
|
Could Frankie have been a "front boss"? In the old days, some Bosses used a guy to act as "Boss", like, to play the role of Boss and even be treated as such, to take the heat off the real Boss. Tony Accardo ruled the Outfit in Chcago for a long time while for some of that time Sam Giancana was the front boss. But everyone knew who was the real boss. So, could Frankie have been a boss in that sense? Yes. Still, as I posted above, at the Senate hearing, Frankie testifies that he had his own family. I think when he says "I have my own family", he's talking about his blood family. Not a Mafia family. When Frankie made that statement it was obviously because he had just changed his mind about breaking omertà , seeing that his brother was present at the hearing, which could have implied several things.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
|
|
|
Re: What was Frank Pentangelli's position?
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#723394
06/30/13 07:30 PM
06/30/13 07:30 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
Iceman999
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 341
|
We don't see in any way that he was subordinate to Michael. Michael just treats him that way. Are you sure you've seen the movie, because taken aside a drunk Frankie at Anthony's communion celebration, he acts subordinate to Michael in about every way. Michael ordered Frankie to make peace with the Rosatos, because he was doing important business with Hyman Roth and didn't want it disturbed, and Frankie followed those orders, even though he hated the Rosatos and wanted to eliminate them. Michael let him do his own stuff but he demanded total loyalty and even obedience, even though there was no more hierarchical structure to support that authority. There was still an official hierarchy, confirmed by the chart that was shown at the Senate hearings. Those are the facts presented by the film. As to whether the chart was accurate or not is mere speculation and depends on your own imagination, also known as fanfiction. And don't forget the scene where Michel pays Pentangelli an unexpected visit at his home. Clearly, Pentangelli shows him a lot of deference. I mean at the look on his face when his wife tells him Michael is waiting for him in the study. Looks like he's about to shit a brick.
|
|
|
|