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Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Skinny] #719566
06/09/13 06:31 PM
06/09/13 06:31 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skinny
Look im not saying the charts are right. They are not. Going off that chart ive seen for chicago (it was blue had a ton of little boxes and pictures), i think 40 made guys sounds reasonable to me. Ive seen ivys charts. Every single one ive seen are wrong. The administration for every chart he has for philly, NJ, 5 families is wrong. Hes missing captains, soldiers, etc. Not that fbi has it wrong, its just the FBI doesnt release yearly charts and status updates, he just goes on whatever he can find, and hes done a good job. But it should be looked at as raw data not fact. Sorry for the rude comment ive edited it out


First, they're not really my charts. They mainly come from the work of another poster, who is well known as the foremost "chart guy" on these forums. But one can only keep them up to date as much as possible, i.e. according to the latest public info. Nobody has ever claimed they are 100% accurate. I would say they are more accurate than not, however. So, to say they're not 100% accurate would be appropriate. To say "they're wrong" isn't.

Also, I don't know why you're saying the administrations are wrong. Let's go down the list here. Genovese family? That's obviously a tough one but the last public info were those small news blurbs in 2009 and 2010. The Gambino administration of Cefalu, Cali, and Vernace is public record. It hasn't been released who the Lucchese underboss is but we do know that Crea is the boss and Caridi was the last known consigliere. Colombos? Persico will obviously be boss until he dies. Franzese was the last known underboss but maybe that's changed since he's likely to die in prison. We know Montemerano is acting underboss. And Fuso is the consigliere. Bonannos? It was recently revealed in a Gang Land News article that the family is being led by a ruling panel of Rabito, Asaro, and DiFiore.

New Jersey? Riggi is obviously still the boss and Miranda the last known underboss. Not sure about consigiliere. New England? The only position known for sure is that Carmen DiNunzio is consigliere. Not sure about the rest of the administration. Philadelphia? It's obviously now known that Merlino is boss. Ligambi was identified as underboss/acting boss in the indictment. And, if I remember right, Mazzone was identified as consigliere at one point; but also may be the acting boss right now. Chicago? Whether there is still a traditional administration is unclear. In recent years the family has been run by acting boss, i.e. Marcello and Sarno. The membership has been well documented by the FBI - around 30 at most. If people want to inflate that total, so they can sleep better at night, that's their problem.

Anyway, Skinny, if you want to add your 2 cents to the charts, that would be much appreciated. But you need to do more than just say, "They're wrong." You've got to specify what you think is wrong, as well as what you believe the real info is. Simply saying, "They're wrong," while holding to some internet code of Omerta, isn't going to fly.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #719574
06/09/13 07:12 PM
06/09/13 07:12 PM
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In exile watching star wars an...
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You never sent me chicago charts. NE idk about, i should have said idk about them but i forgot you sent me those.

Westside doesnt even have #2s or 3s. They have a bunch of acting/street bosses that change. You could make the arguement that 1 guy runs that show, or 2 guys together, or a panel. I honestly cant say for sure who pulls all the strings, i have an opinion but thats it, no facts. Ive heard of 4 guys that have only been id'ed as captains or less when you google them. Who you could call a street boss. Lucchese-#2 and #3 are wrong. Both are BX/Manhattan guys. Caridi is soldier now under Migliore. Gambinos-ive heard conflicting versions of who it is so i wont guess until i know for sure. Colombos ive said is Billy Russo thru his dad and Ally P. Your #2 and 3 are wrong. Shacks has stepped down i have heard and so has Farese i know for sure. Fusco is def not #3. Whats his name Joe Budanza. (sp?) is either 2 or 3 its been awhile since ive heard anything about that. Bonnanos-look at Rabito. I know they have a panel but still... TV wont be boss when he gets out imo. Look at A.C. NJ-Miranda retired a few yrs ago. Philly-your missing a guy named Johnny Chang.

And im sorry but i will have to refer to the code of internet omerta for some of these guys. Ive explained why a thousand times plus i wouldnt want to anger a certain guy from the bronx hehe

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #719575
06/09/13 07:14 PM
06/09/13 07:14 PM
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Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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In exile watching star wars an...
Does that "fly"?

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Skinny] #719601
06/10/13 01:55 AM
06/10/13 01:55 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skinny
Westside doesnt even have #2s or 3s. They have a bunch of acting/street bosses that change. You could make the arguement that 1 guy runs that show, or 2 guys together, or a panel. I honestly cant say for sure who pulls all the strings, i have an opinion but thats it, no facts. Ive heard of 4 guys that have only been id'ed as captains or less when you google them. Who you could call a street boss.


I agree with this. For years now, the family seems to have been by a ruling panel of captains, with one stepping up as acting boss on occasion.

Quote:
Lucchese-#2 and #3 are wrong. Both are BX/Manhattan guys. Caridi is soldier now under Migliore.


Well, you'll notice the charts I've posted haven't named a #2 for the Luccheses. Caridi? I'm totally open to that having changed but who?

Quote:
Gambinos-ive heard conflicting versions of who it is so i wont guess until i know for sure.


There aren't any conflicting versions as far as the feds are concerned. #1 Cefalu, #2 Cali, #3 Vernace. Some people on the forums have tried to make up their own administrations, even after the feds released this info, but we know where that usually gets us. Vernace may have changed, since he'll likely die in prison but Cefalu and Cali's positions are fairly recent.

Quote:
Colombos ive said is Billy Russo thru his dad and Ally P. Your #2 and 3 are wrong. Shacks has stepped down i have heard and so has Farese i know for sure. Fusco is def not #3. Whats his name Joe Budanza. (sp?) is either 2 or 3 its been awhile since ive heard anything about that.


Again, it's completely possible that Shacks is no longer acting underboss and Fusco is no longer consigliere, but who has replaced them?

Quote:
Bonnanos-look at Rabito. I know they have a panel but still... TV wont be boss when he gets out imo. Look at A.C.


A.C.?

Quote:
NJ-Miranda retired a few yrs ago.


OK....

Quote:
Philly-your missing a guy named Johnny Chang.


It's totally conceivable that he's helping run things now.

Quote:
And im sorry but i will have to refer to the code of internet omerta for some of these guys. Ive explained why a thousand times plus i wouldnt want to anger a certain guy from the bronx hehe


And I've said before that I understand that. But, for conversation purposes, that doesn't do us much good.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 06/10/13 01:57 AM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #719638
06/10/13 09:12 AM
06/10/13 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Skinny
Look im not saying the charts are right. They are not. Going off that chart ive seen for chicago (it was blue had a ton of little boxes and pictures), i think 40 made guys sounds reasonable to me. Ive seen ivys charts. Every single one ive seen are wrong. The administration for every chart he has for philly, NJ, 5 families is wrong. Hes missing captains, soldiers, etc. Not that fbi has it wrong, its just the FBI doesnt release yearly charts and status updates, he just goes on whatever he can find, and hes done a good job. But it should be looked at as raw data not fact. Sorry for the rude comment ive edited it out


First, they're not really my charts. They mainly come from the work of another poster, who is well known as the foremost "chart guy" on these forums. But one can only keep them up to date as much as possible, i.e. according to the latest public info. Nobody has ever claimed they are 100% accurate. I would say they are more accurate than not, however. So, to say they're not 100% accurate would be appropriate. To say "they're wrong" isn't.

Also, I don't know why you're saying the administrations are wrong. Let's go down the list here. Genovese family? That's obviously a tough one but the last public info were those small news blurbs in 2009 and 2010. The Gambino administration of Cefalu, Cali, and Vernace is public record. It hasn't been released who the Lucchese underboss is but we do know that Crea is the boss and Caridi was the last known consigliere. Colombos? Persico will obviously be boss until he dies. Franzese was the last known underboss but maybe that's changed since he's likely to die in prison. We know Montemerano is acting underboss. And Fuso is the consigliere. Bonannos? It was recently revealed in a Gang Land News article that the family is being led by a ruling panel of Rabito, Asaro, and DiFiore.

New Jersey? Riggi is obviously still the boss and Miranda the last known underboss. Not sure about consigiliere. New England? The only position known for sure is that Carmen DiNunzio is consigliere. Not sure about the rest of the administration. Philadelphia? It's obviously now known that Merlino is boss. Ligambi was identified as underboss/acting boss in the indictment. And, if I remember right, Mazzone was identified as consigliere at one point; but also may be the acting boss right now. [b]Chicago? Whether there is still a traditional administration is unclear. In recent years the family has been run by acting boss, i.e. Marcello and Sarno. The membership has been well documented by the FBI - around 30 at most. If people want to inflate that total, so they can sleep better at night, that's their problem[/b].

Anyway, Skinny, if you want to add your 2 cents to the charts, that would be much appreciated. But you need to do more than just say, "They're wrong." You've got to specify what you think is wrong, as well as what you believe the real info is. Simply saying, "They're wrong," while holding to some internet code of Omerta, isn't going to fly.





chicago ain't ever had a traditional mafia administration

chicago has been run by "acting bosses" since the 1940s

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #719639
06/10/13 09:19 AM
06/10/13 09:19 AM
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Snakes Offline
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Mukremin's charts are about as good as you can get. The administrations for the respective families are in such a state of flux due to the amount of convictions that it is practically impossible to get an accurate read on any family leaderships. Even with that said, most lower level guys don't even know their family's own administration. They know who they kick up to directly but in this day and age it's too risky for anyone but the biggest earners to know who really runs things.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Skinny] #720153
06/12/13 09:49 PM
06/12/13 09:49 PM
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"And im sorry but i will have to refer to the code of internet omerta for some of these guys. Ive explained why a thousand times plus i wouldnt want to anger a certain guy from the bronx hehe[/quote]

I'll take the first hand, boots on the ground info over the watered down government reports any day.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720154
06/12/13 09:59 PM
06/12/13 09:59 PM
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Getting back to the original point of the thread, my two cents is that Vladimir Putin is the most powerful crime boss in the world.
He uses gangster tactics, he drops bodies and makes'em disappear, and he's got nukes.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: OldSmoke] #720175
06/13/13 01:37 AM
06/13/13 01:37 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: OldSmoke
I'll take the first hand, boots on the ground info over the watered down government reports any day.


Except we're on the internet, so it isn't always so clear if we're really getting "first hand, boots on the ground" info. Bullshitters are legion on these forums. And even those guys, who know what they do, don't have the broad scope of knowledge the feds do. They too get most of their info from the same public sources as everyone else. I don't care who they are.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 06/13/13 01:37 AM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #720176
06/13/13 01:49 AM
06/13/13 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: OldSmoke
I'll take the first hand, boots on the ground info over the watered down government reports any day.


Except we're on the internet, so it isn't always so clear if we're really getting "first hand, boots on the ground" info. Bullshitters are legion on these forums. And even those guys, who know what they do, don't have the broad scope of knowledge the feds do. They too get most of their info from the same public sources as everyone else. I don't care who they are.


Seriously Ivy not being sarcastic I use to enjoy your posts when I firsted signed up they were always insightful and there was a lot of good information and I'm sure there are a few some what newer posters that agree with me within the past 2 years.

Anymore you rather just discredit people and fight with everyone all day long everyday about the same things over and over ...If the chin were alive today he might come out of his seroquel induced coma and smack you!

Last edited by DickNose_Moltasanti; 06/13/13 01:50 AM.

Random Poster:"I'm sorry I didn't go to an Ivy-league school like you"

"Ah I actually I didn't. It's a nickname the feds gave the
Genovese Family."
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720188
06/13/13 06:54 AM
06/13/13 06:54 AM
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In exile watching star wars an...
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There are too many fake guys and too many of the guys that know what there talking about are tiredof being fact checked, referenced, argued with by people from fucking canada. (Yeah ill use the location card, the" location card" arguement was invented by the same ppl that dont live in a certain place) im tired of the internet and all the bullshit that comes with it. Shoot me a message if any of u wanna talk but im getting tired of this shit

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Skinny] #720191
06/13/13 07:44 AM
06/13/13 07:44 AM
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@ Skinny and Ivy

Gents,
we're all working off best guesses, info we hear, read etc.

Differing is not a bad thing. Its what forums are for. We all put our 2 cents in and teach others, and learn something ourselves.

Noone has the asnwers, so a good dialogue with guys genuinely contributing is not to be taken personally.

Personally I appreciate both your posts and hope you'll continue to help us young'ns out.


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Skinny] #720211
06/13/13 10:54 AM
06/13/13 10:54 AM
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cheech Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skinny
There are too many fake guys and too many of the guys that know what there talking about are tiredof being fact checked, referenced, argued with by people from fucking canada. (Yeah ill use the location card, the" location card" arguement was invented by the same ppl that dont live in a certain place) im tired of the internet and all the bullshit that comes with it. Shoot me a message if any of u wanna talk but im getting tired of this shit


i hear that


When Interpol?
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: DickNose_Moltasanti] #720280
06/13/13 05:43 PM
06/13/13 05:43 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: DickNose_Moltasanti
Seriously Ivy not being sarcastic I use to enjoy your posts when I firsted signed up they were always insightful and there was a lot of good information and I'm sure there are a few some what newer posters that agree with me within the past 2 years.

Anymore you rather just discredit people and fight with everyone all day long everyday about the same things over and over ...If the chin were alive today he might come out of his seroquel induced coma and smack you!


Since when are you serious about anything? Furthermore, considering 90% of your posts are lame attempts at humor, you've got a lot of balls criticizing anyone for how they post.

Originally Posted By: Skinny
There are too many fake guys and too many of the guys that know what there talking about are tiredof being fact checked, referenced, argued with by people from fucking canada. (Yeah ill use the location card, the" location card" arguement was invented by the same ppl that dont live in a certain place) im tired of the internet and all the bullshit that comes with it. Shoot me a message if any of u wanna talk but im getting tired of this shit


I'm not quite sure if this is in reference to me, since I don't live in Canada, but the first part of your post makes my case for me. If I come across to people as extremely careful about who I believe, well, I have damn good reason for it. I've been on these forums going on 7 years now and have seen a legion of fakes, phonies, and frauds come and go. I've also seen a number of guys who do know some things but inevitably overreach with what they really know, passing off speculation as fact.

Now, this doesn't mean I don't think there are some genuine guys on here who do know things and don't go beyond what they do know. There are a handful of them, you included. My point to OldSmoke is that we have to be careful because, while many claim they have "first hand, boots on the ground info," few of them really do. And, yes, people will say they can figure it out for themselves but time and time again I've seen these folks duped right and left. We also have to remember that even the most "in the know" guy on these forums still gets most of his info from the media and the feds. So, there's nobody here who is in a position to act like they don't need the feds and the information they provide.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720288
06/13/13 06:01 PM
06/13/13 06:01 PM
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Montreal
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livelifenoregrets Offline
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The Canadian mafia is more successful, more rich and more powerful than the American mafia so why not take theories from people in Canada? If you disagree with this statement then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720294
06/13/13 06:30 PM
06/13/13 06:30 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
The Canadian mafia is more successful, more rich and more powerful than the American mafia so why not take theories from people in Canada? If you disagree with this statement then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.


That's very debatable.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720303
06/13/13 07:03 PM
06/13/13 07:03 PM
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Montreal
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livelifenoregrets Offline
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Montreal
Not really debatable at all. In mafia circles the Americans are now considered bottom feeders and replaceable. They are Hollywood not gangsters. They ruined the Mafia. Between losers like John Gotti, Joey Merlino and Nicky Scarfo with their media bullshit and bosses/top guys flipping they are a joke. Italian police have even said that the Canadian Mafia is superior. Wire tap evidence in Italy shows the Mafia over there refers to Canada as "America" now. Canada is considered a safe haven and a good place to make money. The laws pale in comparison and the border security is completely unsecure for easy access to transport drugs from Canada in to the USA. I remember even seeing ex-ny mafia guys in a documentary saying the Canadian mob has much more money and power. They said the Americans were petty compared to them. Top mobsters with large respect live in Canada and there are far more Canadians going back for business to the old country than from the USA. Top Italian mobsters go to their Canadian counter parts to hide when in trouble and to launder cash. The game has changed.

Last edited by livelifenoregrets; 06/13/13 07:18 PM. Reason: added info
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720306
06/13/13 07:20 PM
06/13/13 07:20 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
Not really debatable at all. In mafia circles the Americans are now considered bottom feeders and replaceable.


Are people in Mafia circles saying that or are you saying that?

Quote:
They are Hollywood not gangsters. They ruined the Mafia.


Some have written books or had films and TV shows made about them. But that's a very tiny percentage.

Quote:
Between losers like John Gotti, Joey Merlino and Nicky Scarfo with their media bullshit and bosses/top guys flipping they are a joke.


Again, this seems to be your opinion more than anything.

Quote:
Italian police have even said that the Canadian Mafia is superior. Wire tap evidence in Italy shows the Mafia over there refers to Canada as "America" now.


Where have they said this?

Quote:
Canada is considered a safe haven and a good place to make money. The laws pale in comparison and the border security is completely unsecure for easy access to transport drugs from Canada in to the USA. Top mobsters with large respect live in Canada and there are far more Canadians going back for business to the old country than from the USA. Top Italian mobsters go to their Canadian counter parts to hide when in trouble and to launder cash. The game has changed.


TOC in Canada certainly has more of an international flair, with stronger ties to Italy, but that alone doesn't necessarily mean it is more powerful, wealthy, or successful. TOC in Canada also has a more direct hold on the drug trade but, as I've said many times before, the vast majority of it is being smuggled into Canada for distribution there. Not from Canada into the U.S. And, yes, Canadian officials are having to play catch up but look at the damage and ensuing chaos Project Colisee alone caused. I think you're buying too much into the "fall of the NY Mafia and rise of Vito Rizzuto" mentality.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720326
06/13/13 08:50 PM
06/13/13 08:50 PM
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Posts: 32
Montreal
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livelifenoregrets Offline
Wiseguy
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Montreal
On a last note I'm not buying in to the rise of Rizzuto, I think after this construction inquiry and the fact that his whole family got busted it really took away from his aura, although he is and always will be a huge player I think the target on his forehead is way to big, he is very very very heat. He has been doing his thing for a long time but the Ontario families have been as well. They have a bigger market and the same ability to move around as the Montreal guys do...New York mob is dead and you have to accept it.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720328
06/13/13 08:55 PM
06/13/13 08:55 PM
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Midwest
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It seems like the big difference between the US and Canada is that you do like a small amount of time for major crimes while in the USA as a mobster you get 15 for j walking.


Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720343
06/14/13 12:03 AM
06/14/13 12:03 AM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
New York mob is dead and you have to accept it.


This is where you lose all credibility. I don't know if you're so ignorant of the issue that you really believe this or if it's just you spouting off. Try looking at the mob cases in New York over the past decade. The 5 families are still there and, though weakened, are far from dead.


"The Mafia - also known as La Cosa Nostra - may have taken on a diminished role in some areas of the country but in New York the five families are still extremely strong and viable." - David Shafer, FBI, 2011

"Across the U.S. the mob's influence and power is not what it used to be, even in cities like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. But New York is different. They are still a viable force here. - Lin DeVecchio, former FBI, 2011

"Despite their weakened state, the five families of the (NY) Cosa Nostra still form the largest and most organized crime syndicate in the country." - New York Post, 2009

"Today, families in former strongholds like Cleveland, Tampa, and Los Angeles are gone. Our thing - as initiates called the mob - is in serious everywhere but New York City. - USA Today, 2007

"Although the LCN remains strong in the metropolitan New York City area where rougly 80% of the LCN members operate, the LCN has been substantially weakened in other parts of the United States - particularly in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and other cities." - Effective Methods to Combat Transnational Organized Crime in Criminal Justice Processes, 2001


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720402
06/14/13 10:59 AM
06/14/13 10:59 AM
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LittleNicky Offline
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LittleNicky  Offline
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Not that I disagree with the general point, ivy- but isn't using FBI agents quotes particularly weak evidence? I mean these guys livelihood depends on strong and viable mob. If the mob is weak or just running video poker- that means no FBI mafia squads, no convictions, and therefore no outrageous government funding and no more gigs.

As sinclair put it "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"


Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: LittleNicky] #720464
06/14/13 03:24 PM
06/14/13 03:24 PM
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
Not that I disagree with the general point, ivy- but isn't using FBI agents quotes particularly weak evidence? I mean these guys livelihood depends on strong and viable mob. If the mob is weak or just running video poker- that means no FBI mafia squads, no convictions, and therefore no outrageous government funding and no more gigs.

As sinclair put it "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"


No, because even without a viable LCN family in their jurisdiction, any FBI office has plenty of other things to deal with. They have no need to make up threats that aren't there. Which is why they recognize 10 remaining families at most now, rather than two dozen or so.


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Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: IvyLeague] #720481
06/14/13 05:17 PM
06/14/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 32
Montreal
L
livelifenoregrets Offline
Wiseguy
livelifenoregrets  Offline
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 32
Montreal
I love how you say I lost all credibility. You defending the US mob makes you have no credibility. You rely on FBI info and by the time you get it the investigation started 10 years before and the whole landscape is nowhere near what it is in the present. We use to laugh at the articles and write ups. Alliances, power, etc changes so quicly. The underworld is so fast paced if your reference is the media then you know absolutely nothing but history.

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
New York mob is dead and you have to accept it.


This is where you lose all credibility. I don't know if you're so ignorant of the issue that you really believe this or if it's just you spouting off. Try looking at the mob cases in New York over the past decade. The 5 families are still there and, though weakened, are far from dead.


"The Mafia - also known as La Cosa Nostra - may have taken on a diminished role in some areas of the country but in New York the five families are still extremely strong and viable." - David Shafer, FBI, 2011

"Across the U.S. the mob's influence and power is not what it used to be, even in cities like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. But New York is different. They are still a viable force here. - Lin DeVecchio, former FBI, 2011

"Despite their weakened state, the five families of the (NY) Cosa Nostra still form the largest and most organized crime syndicate in the country." - New York Post, 2009

"Today, families in former strongholds like Cleveland, Tampa, and Los Angeles are gone. Our thing - as initiates called the mob - is in serious everywhere but New York City. - USA Today, 2007

"Although the LCN remains strong in the metropolitan New York City area where rougly 80% of the LCN members operate, the LCN has been substantially weakened in other parts of the United States - particularly in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and other cities." - Effective Methods to Combat Transnational Organized Crime in Criminal Justice Processes, 2001

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: LittleNicky] #720482
06/14/13 05:19 PM
06/14/13 05:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
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Montreal
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livelifenoregrets Offline
Wiseguy
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Montreal
Originally Posted By: LittleNicky
It seems like the big difference between the US and Canada is that you do like a small amount of time for major crimes while in the USA as a mobster you get 15 for j walking.


You are 100% correct. That is where the US has been successful. Implementing structure that forces guys to talk or face the chair or life. If they had the same sentences as Canada you think Massino would have flipped? Never!!!!! When you have bosses flip your family becomes a joke. NY is a joke!

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: livelifenoregrets] #720484
06/14/13 05:29 PM
06/14/13 05:29 PM
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Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: livelifenoregrets
Sorry If I'm all over the place...A lot has happened to support what I know...

I'm not making these things up and when I say they are dead because in the eyes of the mob they are dead. Of course people of Italian heritage are still organized together to commit illegal activities but they have completely burned themselves. They are not a representation of the Mafia. They have embarrassed the mafia time and time again. They are more like Italian street gangs not Italian Mafia and that is a big difference.

I got out of jail in the states in January. I had been smuggling and did 3 years for my part in the conspiracy. I worked for the Mafia and I associate in those circles, all my friends are criminals unfortunately I don't really have any real friends left. I was never big time in the sense that I had my own crew and I wasn't on the path to being made, I'm still a young guy and in Montreal you won't get significant clout until your 40's unless you have deep deep family connections. I made tons of cash though...A bad week was a 10, 000$ week, I bet you made guys in NY aren't even making that. I have left behind the life of crime as it had horrible effects on my family and I won't do that to them again. We all get caught no matter what. I speak about it now because I was caught so were all the guys I work with and I'm not releasing any info that already isn't known. I had state charges and while awaiting trial the indictment came down so they dropped the state charges, rearrested me and charged me federally. Now that you have some background you might value my opinion a little more. What I have been through is nothing to brag about and I won't mention it on here again.

All the Canadian guys think the NY families are a joke. They still have their own connection or 2 but they feel as they have over exposed the mob and don't know how to do real international business because they are so young now. They aren't the mob of the 70's and 80's. So many rats. The New York mafia isn't making a fraction of the money the Canadian mafia and in the underworld your power is gauged by your pockets. You can't make moves if you don't make money. The Ny mob has embarrassed themselves and they have young guys running their rackets which makes it sloppy. All the top guys in Canada and even the capos are 60 years old +. These guys have been in the game for 40-60 years. They have no respect for NY families, they have gone and fucked up so bad they weeded the use for them right out.

You are wrong about more drugs going south. Well, wrong in a sense. The only thing the New York mafia has to offer its Canadian counter parts is cocaine and weapons. Even then the Canadians have built direct connections to have cocaine at rock bottom prices regardless but they trade Canadian bud with American coke. Now the price of coke in Canada is between $40, 000 and $50, 000 a key. They trade lbs of bud that go for $2000 a lb here for the coke in NY. Wholesale price on bud in New York is about $4000 a lb for AAA on like an order of 100 lbs for example. They will take that bud and trade for keys in the low 20's. The New York guys aren't making much on the keys of blow as by the time it gets to NEw York from Mexico its been raised in price. So you have the Canadians making %100 profit on their bud but getting their coke at half price...Do the math...We use to bring in 400-600 lbs of budd a week. I use to bring a duffle bag of at least $200k to my boss a week. Not to mention the hash and pills all go from Canada to the USA. A lot of heroin is also gone in through the Montreal docks and straight to the USA. The Canadian mafia aside from this current war has kept a very low profile and there has not been a big time snitch. The only real rat was a hitman who worked for the Cotronis in the early 90's and even then it wasn't a big deal. The Italians in Italy see this and recognize this. The laws are a lot more lax, its easier to launder cash and you have old timers with the old values in them. Since 9/11 the States has relied on Canada even more for drugs of all kinds. The US has the international waters on lockdown surrounding them and its so much easier to bring it in from the port of Halifax, Montreal, Ontario, etc then through the very lax borders by foot/boat and in to the USA. We had maybe 1% if that of our loads get busted.

So don't take it so literal when I say they are dead. By Mafia standards they are a disgrace and they are not true mafia. They don't have it anymore. its not to say they won't make a comeback. I think they will but its going to take a lot of guys to grow up and not get caught in a 25 year sentence.

Look up articles, etc by Antonio Nicaso. he mentions that Italian Mafioso refer to Canada as "America" now and the Canadian mafia has expanded their global reach far beyond that of their American counter parts.

And please do you really believe anything the FBI says? When they need funding they make a press statement...Lets be real here guys its obvious the NY mafia does not have what they use to.


I'm not disagreeing with what you said because i don't have a clue about Canada and all that you said may be true, but the vast majority of NY capos are 60+ the only ones i can think of that are younger off the top of my head are Carmine Sciandra,Barney Bellomo,Vinny tv and Frank Cali.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720489
06/14/13 06:20 PM
06/14/13 06:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769
Massachusetts, USA
1
123JoeSchmo Offline
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123JoeSchmo  Offline
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Camarel you should also include Joe Lubrano, Alphonse Trucchio, Joey Merlino, Tori LoCascio, John Castellucci, Andrew DeSimone, Billy Russo, Jerry Asaro, Vito Balsamo, Joseph Sammartino, Anthony Furino, and Dominick Cefalu


"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: 123JoeSchmo] #720495
06/14/13 06:43 PM
06/14/13 06:43 PM
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Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: 123JoeSchmo
Camarel you should also include Joe Lubrano, Alphonse Trucchio, Joey Merlino, Tori LoCascio, John Castellucci, Andrew DeSimone, Billy Russo, Jerry Asaro, Vito Balsamo, Joseph Sammartino, Anthony Furino, and Dominick Cefalu


Yeah after i posted that a few of those guys came to mind, my point was that the majority are over 60 which i think you'd agree with. Also after googling Sciandra he's apparently 60 i thought he was only mid 50s tbh. It's pointless bringing up age anyway as it doesn't really matter imo one of the top guys over the last 30 years has been Bellomo who's only mid 50s and has been a capo since he was 30.

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720496
06/14/13 06:46 PM
06/14/13 06:46 PM
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In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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In exile watching star wars an...
Weed in NY is no where near 4000 a lb. pound for pound retail, the most anyone is going to pay is 3. For canadian bud or cali. If u have a connect, expect to pay even less

Re: Top 15 Crime Bosses and Drug Lords in 2012 [Re: Strax] #720498
06/14/13 06:48 PM
06/14/13 06:48 PM
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In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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In exile watching star wars an...
Cant see anyone paying 50k for a key either.

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