Look im not saying the charts are right. They are not. Going off that chart ive seen for chicago (it was blue had a ton of little boxes and pictures), i think 40 made guys sounds reasonable to me. Ive seen ivys charts. Every single one ive seen are wrong. The administration for every chart he has for philly, NJ, 5 families is wrong. Hes missing captains, soldiers, etc. Not that fbi has it wrong, its just the FBI doesnt release yearly charts and status updates, he just goes on whatever he can find, and hes done a good job. But it should be looked at as raw data not fact. Sorry for the rude comment ive edited it out

Westside doesnt even have #2s or 3s. They have a bunch of acting/street bosses that change. You could make the arguement that 1 guy runs that show, or 2 guys together, or a panel. I honestly cant say for sure who pulls all the strings, i have an opinion but thats it, no facts. Ive heard of 4 guys that have only been id'ed as captains or less when you google them. Who you could call a street boss.

Lucchese-#2 and #3 are wrong. Both are BX/Manhattan guys. Caridi is soldier now under Migliore.

Gambinos-ive heard conflicting versions of who it is so i wont guess until i know for sure.

Colombos ive said is Billy Russo thru his dad and Ally P. Your #2 and 3 are wrong. Shacks has stepped down i have heard and so has Farese i know for sure. Fusco is def not #3. Whats his name Joe Budanza. (sp?) is either 2 or 3 its been awhile since ive heard anything about that.

Bonnanos-look at Rabito. I know they have a panel but still... TV wont be boss when he gets out imo. Look at A.C.

NJ-Miranda retired a few yrs ago.

Philly-your missing a guy named Johnny Chang.

And im sorry but i will have to refer to the code of internet omerta for some of these guys. Ive explained why a thousand times plus i wouldnt want to anger a certain guy from the bronx hehe

First, they're not really my charts. They mainly come from the work of another poster, who is well known as the foremost "chart guy" on these forums. But one can only keep them up to date as much as possible, i.e. according to the latest public info. Nobody has ever claimed they are 100% accurate. I would say they are more accurate than not, however. So, to say they're not 100% accurate would be appropriate. To say "they're wrong" isn't.

Also, I don't know why you're saying the administrations are wrong. Let's go down the list here. Genovese family? That's obviously a tough one but the last public info were those small news blurbs in 2009 and 2010. The Gambino administration of Cefalu, Cali, and Vernace is public record. It hasn't been released who the Lucchese underboss is but we do know that Crea is the boss and Caridi was the last known consigliere. Colombos? Persico will obviously be boss until he dies. Franzese was the last known underboss but maybe that's changed since he's likely to die in prison. We know Montemerano is acting underboss. And Fuso is the consigliere. Bonannos? It was recently revealed in a Gang Land News article that the family is being led by a ruling panel of Rabito, Asaro, and DiFiore.

New Jersey? Riggi is obviously still the boss and Miranda the last known underboss. Not sure about consigiliere. New England? The only position known for sure is that Carmen DiNunzio is consigliere. Not sure about the rest of the administration. Philadelphia? It's obviously now known that Merlino is boss. Ligambi was identified as underboss/acting boss in the indictment. And, if I remember right, Mazzone was identified as consigliere at one point; but also may be the acting boss right now. [b]Chicago? Whether there is still a traditional administration is unclear. In recent years the family has been run by acting boss, i.e. Marcello and Sarno. The membership has been well documented by the FBI - around 30 at most. If people want to inflate that total, so they can sleep better at night, that's their problem[/b].

Anyway, Skinny, if you want to add your 2 cents to the charts, that would be much appreciated. But you need to do more than just say, "They're wrong." You've got to specify what you think is wrong, as well as what you believe the real info is. Simply saying, "They're wrong," while holding to some internet code of Omerta, isn't going to fly.

I'll take the first hand, boots on the ground info over the watered down government reports any day.

Except we're on the internet, so it isn't always so clear if we're really getting "first hand, boots on the ground" info. Bullshitters are legion on these forums. And even those guys, who know what they do, don't have the broad scope of knowledge the feds do. They too get most of their info from the same public sources as everyone else. I don't care who they are.

There are too many fake guys and too many of the guys that know what there talking about are tiredof being fact checked, referenced, argued with by people from fucking canada. (Yeah ill use the location card, the" location card" arguement was invented by the same ppl that dont live in a certain place) im tired of the internet and all the bullshit that comes with it. Shoot me a message if any of u wanna talk but im getting tired of this shit

Seriously Ivy not being sarcastic I use to enjoy your posts when I firsted signed up they were always insightful and there was a lot of good information and I'm sure there are a few some what newer posters that agree with me within the past 2 years.

Anymore you rather just discredit people and fight with everyone all day long everyday about the same things over and over ...If the chin were alive today he might come out of his seroquel induced coma and smack you!

There are too many fake guys and too many of the guys that know what there talking about are tiredof being fact checked, referenced, argued with by people from fucking canada. (Yeah ill use the location card, the" location card" arguement was invented by the same ppl that dont live in a certain place) im tired of the internet and all the bullshit that comes with it. Shoot me a message if any of u wanna talk but im getting tired of this shit

The Canadian mafia is more successful, more rich and more powerful than the American mafia so why not take theories from people in Canada? If you disagree with this statement then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Not really debatable at all. In mafia circles the Americans are now considered bottom feeders and replaceable.

They are Hollywood not gangsters. They ruined the Mafia.

Between losers like John Gotti, Joey Merlino and Nicky Scarfo with their media bullshit and bosses/top guys flipping they are a joke.

Italian police have even said that the Canadian Mafia is superior. Wire tap evidence in Italy shows the Mafia over there refers to Canada as "America" now.

Canada is considered a safe haven and a good place to make money. The laws pale in comparison and the border security is completely unsecure for easy access to transport drugs from Canada in to the USA. Top mobsters with large respect live in Canada and there are far more Canadians going back for business to the old country than from the USA. Top Italian mobsters go to their Canadian counter parts to hide when in trouble and to launder cash. The game has changed.

New York mob is dead and you have to accept it.

Not that I disagree with the general point, ivy- but isn't using FBI agents quotes particularly weak evidence? I mean these guys livelihood depends on strong and viable mob. If the mob is weak or just running video poker- that means no FBI mafia squads, no convictions, and therefore no outrageous government funding and no more gigs.

As sinclair put it "“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it"

This is where you lose all credibility. I don't know if you're so ignorant of the issue that you really believe this or if it's just you spouting off. Try looking at the mob cases in New York over the past decade. The 5 families are still there and, though weakened, are far from dead.


"The Mafia - also known as La Cosa Nostra - may have taken on a diminished role in some areas of the country but in New York the five families are still extremely strong and viable." - David Shafer, FBI, 2011

"Across the U.S. the mob's influence and power is not what it used to be, even in cities like Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. But New York is different. They are still a viable force here. - Lin DeVecchio, former FBI, 2011

"Despite their weakened state, the five families of the (NY) Cosa Nostra still form the largest and most organized crime syndicate in the country." - New York Post, 2009

"Today, families in former strongholds like Cleveland, Tampa, and Los Angeles are gone. Our thing - as initiates called the mob - is in serious everywhere but New York City. - USA Today, 2007

"Although the LCN remains strong in the metropolitan New York City area where rougly 80% of the LCN members operate, the LCN has been substantially weakened in other parts of the United States - particularly in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Kansas City, Milwaukee, St. Louis, and other cities." - Effective Methods to Combat Transnational Organized Crime in Criminal Justice Processes, 2001

It seems like the big difference between the US and Canada is that you do like a small amount of time for major crimes while in the USA as a mobster you get 15 for j walking.

Sorry If I'm all over the place...A lot has happened to support what I know...

I'm not making these things up and when I say they are dead because in the eyes of the mob they are dead. Of course people of Italian heritage are still organized together to commit illegal activities but they have completely burned themselves. They are not a representation of the Mafia. They have embarrassed the mafia time and time again. They are more like Italian street gangs not Italian Mafia and that is a big difference.

I got out of jail in the states in January. I had been smuggling and did 3 years for my part in the conspiracy. I worked for the Mafia and I associate in those circles, all my friends are criminals unfortunately I don't really have any real friends left. I was never big time in the sense that I had my own crew and I wasn't on the path to being made, I'm still a young guy and in Montreal you won't get significant clout until your 40's unless you have deep deep family connections. I made tons of cash though...A bad week was a 10, 000$ week, I bet you made guys in NY aren't even making that. I have left behind the life of crime as it had horrible effects on my family and I won't do that to them again. We all get caught no matter what. I speak about it now because I was caught so were all the guys I work with and I'm not releasing any info that already isn't known. I had state charges and while awaiting trial the indictment came down so they dropped the state charges, rearrested me and charged me federally. Now that you have some background you might value my opinion a little more. What I have been through is nothing to brag about and I won't mention it on here again.

All the Canadian guys think the NY families are a joke. They still have their own connection or 2 but they feel as they have over exposed the mob and don't know how to do real international business because they are so young now. They aren't the mob of the 70's and 80's. So many rats. The New York mafia isn't making a fraction of the money the Canadian mafia and in the underworld your power is gauged by your pockets. You can't make moves if you don't make money. The Ny mob has embarrassed themselves and they have young guys running their rackets which makes it sloppy. All the top guys in Canada and even the capos are 60 years old +. These guys have been in the game for 40-60 years. They have no respect for NY families, they have gone and fucked up so bad they weeded the use for them right out.

You are wrong about more drugs going south. Well, wrong in a sense. The only thing the New York mafia has to offer its Canadian counter parts is cocaine and weapons. Even then the Canadians have built direct connections to have cocaine at rock bottom prices regardless but they trade Canadian bud with American coke. Now the price of coke in Canada is between $40, 000 and $50, 000 a key. They trade lbs of bud that go for $2000 a lb here for the coke in NY. Wholesale price on bud in New York is about $4000 a lb for AAA on like an order of 100 lbs for example. They will take that bud and trade for keys in the low 20's. The New York guys aren't making much on the keys of blow as by the time it gets to NEw York from Mexico its been raised in price. So you have the Canadians making %100 profit on their bud but getting their coke at half price...Do the math...We use to bring in 400-600 lbs of budd a week. I use to bring a duffle bag of at least $200k to my boss a week. Not to mention the hash and pills all go from Canada to the USA. A lot of heroin is also gone in through the Montreal docks and straight to the USA. The Canadian mafia aside from this current war has kept a very low profile and there has not been a big time snitch. The only real rat was a hitman who worked for the Cotronis in the early 90's and even then it wasn't a big deal. The Italians in Italy see this and recognize this. The laws are a lot more lax, its easier to launder cash and you have old timers with the old values in them. Since 9/11 the States has relied on Canada even more for drugs of all kinds. The US has the international waters on lockdown surrounding them and its so much easier to bring it in from the port of Halifax, Montreal, Ontario, etc then through the very lax borders by foot/boat and in to the USA. We had maybe 1% if that of our loads get busted.

So don't take it so literal when I say they are dead. By Mafia standards they are a disgrace and they are not true mafia. They don't have it anymore. its not to say they won't make a comeback. I think they will but its going to take a lot of guys to grow up and not get caught in a 25 year sentence.

Look up articles, etc by Antonio Nicaso. he mentions that Italian Mafioso refer to Canada as "America" now and the Canadian mafia has expanded their global reach far beyond that of their American counter parts.

And please do you really believe anything the FBI says? When they need funding they make a press statement...Lets be real here guys its obvious the NY mafia does not have what they use to.

Camarel you should also include Joe Lubrano, Alphonse Trucchio, Joey Merlino, Tori LoCascio, John Castellucci, Andrew DeSimone, Billy Russo, Jerry Asaro, Vito Balsamo, Joseph Sammartino, Anthony Furino, and Dominick Cefalu