The number of associates COMPARED to made guys in Chicago is not the same as the number of associates COMPARED to New York. This is where you are very wrong and misinformed. Chicago has a very high number of associates compared to made men. New York's ratio is smaller and always has been smaller. Why? New York has always been very liberal in making people. Chicago has always been much more select. The F.B.I. has stated this fact in some of their reports. You should know this being an F.B.I. report expert. Many of the associates who work for made guys in Chicago would have been made guys in New York and allowed to do what they want as long as they kicked up to their Captain. Chicago has always been different in this regard. My Uncle would have EASILY been a made guy in one of the New York Families. Chicago has always been much more selective.
This may have been the case in the past but, if you look at more recent reports, the member-to-associate ratio is about the same in New York and Chicago. For example, the Colombo family is said to have about 100 members and 500 associates. The Genovese family is said to have about 200 members and 1,000 associates. By comparison, the Outfit is said to have 25-30 members and a little over 100 associates. That's about a 1:5 ratio for both. The New England and Philadelphia families have 40-50 members and about 100 associates, making a 1:2 ratio. So, comparatively speaking, Chicago is more similar in total size to New England or Philadelphia but the member-to-associate ratio is a little different.
As far as busts in Chicago, the OFFSHORE Gambling ( supervised by Marco D'Amico) would not involve busts because it is basically legit. You make the wrong assumption that no busts for Gambling means no activity. You are very wrong on this point. The Outfit is like the Corleone family becoming basically legit. This is the only example I can use that you might understand. The Chicago Outfit is very shrewd, smaller, leaner and more legitimate which means in the long run, they will survive a very long time. Don't ask me to prove what I said with an F.B.I Report. You can believe what you want, and I'll believe what I know. It's not a problem. You and I will never really agree on too much because I'm going mainly by inside information that I can't prove to you and you're going by an F.B.I. REPORT WHICH IS NOT ALWAYS ACCURATE OR UP TO DATE. THAT'S WHY THE FEDS ARE ALWAYS TRING TO GET MORE INFORMATION from guys like my Uncle who will not tell them anything. They punished him by sending him to prison. I'm talking from a street inside level which can't be proven on a Blog. You're talking from a F.B.I. Report which is 5 years old and incomplete. We will never agree on some of these points. Not a problem
I see. The Outfit (the real life Corleone family) has gone legit and has figured out a way to avoid law enforcement scrutiny. Is that why we saw Anthony Centracchio, Michael Spano, James Inendino, Jimmy Marcello, Joey Lombardo, Frank Calabrese, Rudy Fratto, and Mike Sarno all indicted since 2000? Not to mention many more associates. Many of them for the standard mob rackets.
Bottom line. All you've presented so far is anecdotal information. On the internet no less.
@ivyleague
Chicago doesn't necessarily use the word captain all the time
sometimes they have area bosses
I'm aware of that. Which is why I said above they've been known to use the term "crew boss" instead of "captain." The difference is, we've seen evidence of that, while we've seen no evidence of made members and soldiers being different in Chicago.
madeguys in new York are 1000 deep and sharing dinner plates
madeguys in Chicago operate on their lonesome if they're capable
madeguys in Chicago probably all have legitimate business
This is why you Chicago posters have the fanboy reputation you do. The Outfit is like the Corleone family. All Outfit members have legit businesses while the NY guy are scraping by. You guys can't see past your own inherent bias.
Smaller Leaner Well Organized Secretive Politically Insulated White Collar Organized Crime Group like the Outfit led by Elmwood park will always outlast a Blue Collar Disorganized Rat Infested Organized Crime Group like the Colombos or the Gambinos anyday. I don't care how many 'Made members' they have presently. The number of made members DOES NOT MEAN STRENGTH. BIGGER DOESN'T MEAN BETTER. If that were the case, then the Crips Street Gang in Los Angeles would be more powerful than ALL THE MAFIA FAMILIES PUT TOGETHER, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS NOT THE TRUTH. The only Group in New York similar to Chicago would be the Genovese Family. They are the EXCEPTION, not the norm in New York. That's why Chicago only dealt with them. The Goal for the Italian American Mafia to survive from 2013 forward is to become smaller, more selective, and a lot more White Collar than Blue Collar. That is the ONLY way to survive. The number of made members, in the long run, really doesn't mean shit and does not represent strength. Again, if that were the case, then everyone in this Country would be working for the Crips or the Bloods.
It's true that the Outfit has downsized and streamlined it's operations, which is a smart move in the shorter term. However, in the longer term, attrition will see it's demise. Yes, quality is a big factor. But so is quantity. If a family doesn't have the necessary pool of recruits, or simply doesn't make new members, it will eventually fade away. We've seen the Outfit's membership be cut in half over the past 15 years. That shows a definite trend, even if some don't want to see it. The Outfit can have all the stability and discipline in the world. It will still go the way other LCN families have, who are no longer around, long before any of the NY families will.
