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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #714638
05/08/13 03:19 PM
05/08/13 03:19 PM
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Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
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Staten Island / New Jersey
Originally Posted By: olivant
Arias verdict at 4:30PM EST.


After watching the OJ and Casey Anthony trials, it won't shock me if she walks.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Just Lou] #714680
05/08/13 05:09 PM
05/08/13 05:09 PM
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Just Lou
Originally Posted By: olivant
Arias verdict at 4:30PM EST.


After watching the OJ and Casey Anthony trials, it won't shock me if she walks.


She was found guilty of first degree murder.


President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #714683
05/08/13 05:11 PM
05/08/13 05:11 PM
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Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Sicilian Babe] #714684
05/08/13 05:13 PM
05/08/13 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
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Staten Island / New Jersey
Just Lou Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Originally Posted By: Just Lou
Originally Posted By: olivant
Arias verdict at 4:30PM EST.


After watching the OJ and Casey Anthony trials, it won't shock me if she walks.


She was found guilty of first degree murder.


Yeah, I was listening. ..I didn't follow the trial that closely, but from what I did see, there was a lot of evidence against her, and little if any to support her defense.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #714704
05/08/13 05:45 PM
05/08/13 05:45 PM
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New York
Sicilian Babe Offline
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Considering her "defense" was "I shot him in self-defense, but I don't remember slitting his throat or stabbing him 30 times or hiding his body in the shower, then driving out to the desert to dump the gun," it's kind of hard to find support for that.


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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Sicilian Babe] #714708
05/08/13 05:57 PM
05/08/13 05:57 PM
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Camarel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Considering her "defense" was "I shot him in self-defense, but I don't remember slitting his throat or stabbing him 30 times or hiding his body in the shower, then driving out to the desert to dump the gun," it's kind of hard to find support for that.


It's scary stuff when that's not you summing up her defence but actually quoting her.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #714712
05/08/13 06:07 PM
05/08/13 06:07 PM
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Sicilian Babe Offline
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Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead, that was me paraphrasing her testimony. However, that pretty much did sum it up.


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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: Sicilian Babe] #714714
05/08/13 06:10 PM
05/08/13 06:10 PM
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Camarel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sicilian Babe
Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead, that was me paraphrasing her testimony. However, that pretty much did sum it up.


lol Fair enough i thought th\t was a bit odd, but i read one of the articles and i agree that sums it up.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #714718
05/08/13 06:44 PM
05/08/13 06:44 PM
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Watched a lot of this case. Glad this bitch got guilty. She better get the death penalty.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715485
05/13/13 01:37 PM
05/13/13 01:37 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly, would you clear this up? The following is part of a news item. "Over a five minute meeting, he reminded the jury they must be unanimous on all counts and asked the group to return to the jury room and discuss the charges further."

He is charged with 250 counts. Certainly, the jury can find him not guilty and some, but not others, correct? Is PA law different?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715486
05/13/13 01:41 PM
05/13/13 01:41 PM
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dontomasso Offline
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If the counts are redundant then usually they do not have to find on all of them if one is all inclusive. The problem comes if they do not go for the whole enchilada, then they have to keep looking down the food chain count by count, many of which probably contain lesser included offenses.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: dontomasso] #715492
05/13/13 01:59 PM
05/13/13 01:59 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
If the counts are redundant then usually they do not have to find on all of them if one is all inclusive. The problem comes if they do not go for the whole enchilada, then they have to keep looking down the food chain count by count, many of which probably contain lesser included offenses.


Ok DT, but the judge's instructions indicate that the jury faces an election of all or nothing. That seems to be contrary to all states laws with which I'm am familiar.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
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Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715508
05/13/13 03:10 PM
05/13/13 03:10 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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The jury has come to a verdict in the murder trial of the PA doctor accused of murdering babies.

Found Guilty! Guilty!

He's eligible for execution; the jury will deliberate.

Last edited by olivant; 05/13/13 03:21 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715537
05/13/13 06:48 PM
05/13/13 06:48 PM
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Scorsese Offline
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Ray of light for cons jailed in slays after work by retired NYPD Detective Louis Scarcella comes under cloud
Brooklyn DA to reopen about 50 murder cases after conviction of David Ranta is tossed amid charges of coercing suspects and witnesses

Comments (40)
BY SIMONE WEICHSELBAUM , VERA CHINESE AND BARRY PADDOCK / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

SUNDAY, MAY 12, 2013, 11:03 PM


ENID ALVAREZ/NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

David Ranta, who served over 20 years in jail in the slaying of a Brooklyn Rabbi, was freed this year after his conviction was thrown out because of shoddy police work by Scarcella.
Now that every murder conviction linked to a retired NYPD detective will be reexamined, men he put behind bars are hoping their names will at last be cleared.

About 50 cases that Detective Louis Scarcella worked will be reopened by the Brooklyn district attorneyā€™s Conviction Integrity Unit in the wake of a judgeā€™s decision to toss David Rantaā€™s conviction two months ago.

Ranta served more than two decades in prison in the killing of a Brooklyn rabbi before Scarcellaā€™s shoddy police work came to light. One witness, only 13 at the time of the investigation, claimed Scarcella coached him to pick Ranta out of a lineup.

Ranta, 58, was not the first man freed because of questions about the integrity of Scarcellaā€™s work.

ā€œItā€™s despicable, in this time and age, for people who are innocent to still be sitting in jail,ā€ said Derrick Hamilton, who was paroled in 2011 after the Daily News reported Scarcellaā€™s only witness had recanted her claim that Hamilton killed her boyfriend.

Hamilton, 47, is still fighting to get a judge to officially clear his name.

ā€œNow that itā€™s revealed that Scarcella is who he is and his real character is coming out, I'm hopeful,ā€ Hamilton said.

When Scarcella arrested him, the detective made a shocking admission, according to Hamilton.

ā€œHe told me, ā€˜I know you didnā€™t commit this murder, but I donā€™t care,ā€™ ā€ he said.

Hamilton, who had previously done six years in prison on a manslaughter rap, says Scarcella told him he was being pinned for the new case because he didnā€™t do enough time for the old one.

Scarcella, 61, decline to comment as he entered his Staten Island home Sunday.

ā€œIā€™m sorry I canā€™t speak to you,ā€ he said. ā€œEnjoy Motherā€™s Day.ā€

A spokesman confirmed Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes was reviewing about 50 cases tied to Scarcella, but declined to comment further.

In a 1985 murder Scarcella investigated, Alvena Jennette, 49, was convicted with his brother Darryl Austin. Jennette was released in 2007, but his brother died in prison.

The only witness to their crime was drug addict Teresa Gomez.

Gomez claimed in court to have also seen two separate murders by Jennetteā€™s stepbrother, Robert Hill, who was acquitted of the first and convicted of the second murder. He remains in prison.

Gomez testified in court in other murder cases Scarcella investigated, The New York Times reported, and may have been rewarded for her cooperation.

ā€œHow is it possible a detective could use a witness in that many murder trials without any red flags being raised?ā€ Jennette asked.

Because he is out of prison, Jennetteā€™s case will likely be a lower priority for review.

ā€œI still have a murder conviction,ā€ said Jennette, a construction worker. ā€œDo you know how hard it is to find a job?ā€

Lawyer Ron Kuby is representing another man Scarcella helped put away, Shakaba Shakur, 48, who is 26 years into a 40-years-to-life murder sentence.

Kuby says Shakurā€™s confession, which his client denies ever making, parallels Rantaā€™s questionable confession.

Scarcella somehow managed to get admissions ā€” which were not witnessed, recorded or written.

ā€œYouā€™d think after two or three or five of these magical confessions, some judge somewhere would say, ā€˜Hmm . . . ā€™ ā€ Kuby said.

Kuby acknowledges not all of the people Scarcella arrested can be innocent.

ā€œEven a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then,ā€ he said.

With Shane Dixon Kavanaugh and Erin Durkin



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dozens-murder-cases-new-article-1.1342215#ixzz2TDQyHZrr

Last edited by Scorsese; 05/13/13 06:49 PM.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715647
05/14/13 12:30 PM
05/14/13 12:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
The following is part of a news item. "Over a five minute meeting, he reminded the jury they must be unanimous on all counts and asked the group to return to the jury room and discuss the charges further."



My guess is that the news report was inartfully drafted. It would be reversible error for the judge to suggest that the jury must return the same verdict for every count against the defendant. The instruction more likely was that in order to find him guilty or not guilty of each separate count, you must be unanimous in your verdict for that count.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: klydon1] #715649
05/14/13 12:35 PM
05/14/13 12:35 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Thanks Kly.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #715978
05/16/13 07:28 PM
05/16/13 07:28 PM
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MI
Lilo Offline
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These two occurrences are rather disturbing if the facts are as reported.

In one situation the police beat a man to death and then supposedly without warrant confiscate the phones of witnesses who viewed/recorded the incident, in one instance preventing a man from leaving his home for three hours until he gave up his phone.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/us/fat...ublic.html?_r=0

Quote:
LOS ANGELES ā€” When Maria Melendez emerged from Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield, Calif., just before midnight last Tuesday, she said, she heard screams that have kept her awake at night for an entire week.

A half-dozen Kern County sheriffā€™s deputies were across the street beating a man with clubs and kicking him, she said. So she whipped out her mobile phone and began to video the episode, announcing to the officers what she was doing.

For about eight minutes, Ms. Melendez said, the man screamed and cried for help. Then he went silent, she said, making only choking sounds.

Finally, having hogtied him, a number of witnesses said, two officers picked up the man and dropped him, twice. One deputy nudged the man with his foot. When he did not respond, they began CPR...Ms. Melendez said she recorded the entire episode on her phone, as did her daughterā€™s boyfriend. But before they could send the videos to news media outlets, detectives from the Kern County Sheriffā€™s Office took their phones before a warrant for them had even arrived, Ms. Melendez and her family said...




In another story a couple is arguing and someone outside of the home mistakes this for domestic violence. The police arrive and despite not having a warrant kick down the door and tase the couple.

http://jonathanturley.org/2013/05/16/cou...d-taser-couple/

Quote:
This video shows a confrontation between a couple in Cotati, California and police after the police were called to investigate a domestic violence complaint. The couple tells the police that they were simply yelling in an argument and refused to allow the police to enter without a warrant. The police respond by kicking down the door and tasering the couple.


In defense of the police, it is not clear if they can actually see the couple, particularly the wife. In a case of possible domestic abuse, police need to see the occupants to ensure that someone is not being or has been beaten. If the police were to simply leave based on verbal responses, there could be a victim found later who was unable to break free or seek help. I can understand the reluctance of the police to leave the scene without a visual on the couple. However, they could have sought a telephonic warrant..
..


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungleā€”as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #716035
05/17/13 01:51 PM
05/17/13 01:51 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly and DT, I may have asked this question before. A subpoened witness cannot be in the courtroom before testifying, correct? But since a witness can be recalled, are they ever allowed in the courtroom?

Last edited by olivant; 05/17/13 01:52 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #716061
05/17/13 04:35 PM
05/17/13 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
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Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly and DT, I may have asked this question before. A subpoened witness cannot be in the courtroom before testifying, correct? But since a witness can be recalled, are they ever allowed in the courtroom?


They are allowed to remain if the opposing side doesn't object. If they are recalled, their testimony is usually limited to impeaching or contradicting subsequent testimony. If they are recalled to add additional facts or events to their previous testimony, I would object.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #716822
05/21/13 06:09 PM
05/21/13 06:09 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly, while the 14th amendment precludes states from denying citizens equal protection of the law, I don't find any similar constitutional provision that applies the same preclusion to the federal government. Your comments?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #716890
05/22/13 08:16 AM
05/22/13 08:16 AM
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Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Dale Cregan the guy who killed 2 police last year in Manchester has now admitted to killing a Father and Son. Scumbag mad. http://news.sky.com/story/1094200/dale-cregan-admits-murder-of-father-and-son

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #716912
05/22/13 01:52 PM
05/22/13 01:52 PM
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Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly, while the 14th amendment precludes states from denying citizens equal protection of the law, I don't find any similar constitutional provision that applies the same preclusion to the federal government. Your comments?


The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment applies to the federal government through the Due Process Clause of the Fifth by way of reverse incorporation. The doctrine is found in Bolling v. Sharpe.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: klydon1] #716933
05/22/13 03:42 PM
05/22/13 03:42 PM
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olivant Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: klydon1
Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly, while the 14th amendment precludes states from denying citizens equal protection of the law, I don't find any similar constitutional provision that applies the same preclusion to the federal government. Your comments?


The Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment applies to the federal government through the Due Process Clause of the Fifth by way of reverse incorporation. The doctrine is found in Bolling v. Sharpe.


As usual, thanks Kly. It's been decades since I read Bolling and then only a syllabus. I'll read it again, but it appears like a convoluted path (now I'm writing like a strict constructionist).


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717108
05/23/13 04:56 PM
05/23/13 04:56 PM
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly and DT, what do you think about Lois lerner voiding her 5th amendment claim during her (limited) testimony before the House committee examing the IRS targeting issue? After being sworn in she gave an attempted exculpatory statement followed by her 5th claim when questioned.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717182
05/24/13 10:50 AM
05/24/13 10:50 AM
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Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly and DT, what do you think about Lois lerner voiding her 5th amendment claim during her (limited) testimony before the House committee examing the IRS targeting issue? After being sworn in she gave an attempted exculpatory statement followed by her 5th claim when questioned.


If I represented her, I would have advised that I, not she, read a general opening statement, but still would have advised her to take the Fifth.

The climate of the Committee hearings is dangerous as House Republicans have on multiple occasions expressed an opinion that people have to go to jail as a result of the IRS scandal although I haven't yet heard what specific laws have been broken. It very well may result in federal prosecutions, but the call for jail sentencesby representatives before the facts are known is a warning sign.

Issa is considering whether the opening statement constituted a waiver of the Fifth Amendment privilege. I don't think it's close. The invocation of the right is valid. If they really want her testimony, they will have to grant immunity.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717343
05/26/13 02:36 PM
05/26/13 02:36 PM
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olivant Offline OP
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Kly, in PA are juries exposed to VISs?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717510
05/28/13 12:16 PM
05/28/13 12:16 PM
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klydon1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Kly, in PA are juries exposed to VISs?


No. They are irrelevant and may be unduly prejudicial on the issue of guilt.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717578
05/28/13 07:16 PM
05/28/13 07:16 PM
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MI
Lilo Offline
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"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungleā€”as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717636
05/29/13 01:42 AM
05/29/13 01:42 AM
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MikeMoon Offline
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It's really nice to read that you all people are completely conscious about the security of our country. I also just reading a report which was a local area about the street crime. they told that a car has been lifted after every 40 second and a thief has been occurred in the home after 50 second.

Re: Crime & Justice [Re: olivant] #717808
05/30/13 02:35 PM
05/30/13 02:35 PM
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Scotland
Camarel Offline
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The pos who killed that little girl April has been found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. Good riddance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-22687971

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