D Squared glad you put him in his place. Ivy lives in a bubble and his impotent "If you don't use it you lost it"

I got personal because you were talking out of your ass.



You apparently haven't listened to him. At least not very much. He certainly isn't a "neoconservative nut job" and I doubt there's any examples you could give me to prove he is.



For one of the most "educated and accomplished" people here, you sure do let mime posters do a lot of your talking.



Look at those who bash and hate me - the phony bullshitters and their groupies. And you know very well that I go with the FBI reports because they tend to be the most factual.



Again, you're talking out of your ass. You haven't listened to Prager enough, nor do you know enough about the LDS Church, to make these statements. Prager is conservative so you immediately write him off because you're a partisan liberal. That's all there is to it.



Public universities certainly do have a HUGE liberal slant. That's a fact. Even you can't deny that. But you probably think the mainstream media isn't liberally biased either, huh?



You pay more lip-service to being objective than the other libs here but you're every bit of a partisan as they are. I certainly conservative but neither Republican or Democrat and, in fact, hold both parties in contempt. It's obvious you're in the bag for anyone with a (D) after their name.

I have yet to see you make a decent post, DickNose. Not sure you're aware of this but you're one of those people who is constantly cracking jokes despite the fact you're not funny.

I wasnt talking out of my ass, I dont comment on things I know nothing about. I am familiar with this topic and thus I felt like commenting.



Prager consistently espouses the neoconservative line on both foreign and domestic affairs, including championing the Iraq War and hardline Israeli policies. In a December 2003 op-ed for the WSJ titled "Ten Lessons from Saddam Hussein's Capture," Prager says: "America is the greatest force for good on the planet. America, with the support of Britain and some other countries, and against the rest of 'world opinion,' liberated Iraq from evil." "The positive effect on humanity of good vanquishing evil cannot be overstated. ... Many on the Left are ... not particularly happy [with Saddam's capture]. Saddam's capture is a victory for American force and for George W. Bush, and the Left hates both more than it hates Saddam. ... Most of the Left does not hate evil; hatred of evil is primarily found on the Right. ... For years leading up to 9/11, Islamists were respected for their increasing power and America was losing respect as it suffered blows at the hands of Islamic terror. Now America is seen as the powerful one, and is earning the respect once accorded Saddam and Osama. The importance of this cannot be overstated."

There's also the controversy surrounding Congressman Keith Ellison, the first Muslim to be elected to Congress, who Prager argued should not be allowed to be sworn in to office using the Koran instead of the Bible, because it "undermines American civilization". He wrote that it would be "an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism—my culture trumps America's culture. What Ellison and his Muslim and leftist supporters are saying is that it is of no consequence what America holds as its holiest book; all that matters is what any individual holds to be his holiest book. Forgive me, but America should not give a hoot what Keith Ellison's favorite book is."



I post those to provide comedic relief/make a particular point not cause I cant articulate my views. Quite the contrary. I learned a long time ago on these forums to pick and choose my battles and not to engage in every single debate that comes up because you will quickly find yourself in the same dragged out discussion usually with the same people on the same topic, and in the end nothing gets accomplished as usual because both camps are entrenched in their own personal views. It's the same song and dance over and over again (I'm sure you can relate). I dont have the leisure time to devote to this.



Believe it or not, I have listened to various podcasts from both Prager and the LDS Church along with reading their op-ed's and books on different subject matter. Their not on my favorites list, but I do listen and read random things I like that on occasion. I give people a chance to voice their different viewpoint (regardless of what it is) before I make my own personal judgement on a matter.

I'm not a partisan anything. I have voted for more conservatives than liberals in my lifetime. Actually since graduating from business school, I have been working at the pleasure of a very prominent conservative.


My comment dealt with private institutions (Harvard, Standford, Yale, etc). Yes, the mainstream media does have a liberal bias.



I live in an evidenced based world and thus rely on hard data (numbers, statistics, history, etc) to make my policy decisions. It just so happens that liberals are more often than not (not always on the correct side of the evidence. I am not in the bag for anybody with anything beside their name, I care about what I think is right and who will be the best person to carry that out.

You on the other see everything blindly through the prism of your religious beliefs and base all your views through it.

Ivy I don't consider dap a liberal hack. At least he adds something for gods sake, he can consider another point of view. You on the other hand are a different story, it's ivys way or the highway and nothing else. Has it ever occurred to you for a second to consider another point of view other than your own? You know you and I don't disagree on everything. But every time dap or I offers something reasonable other than your fifties outlook you shoot it down as "liberal junk".

Your original comment was basically, "Prager is full of shit." That shows a simple knee jerk reaction based on politics and not an informed opinion on the guy.



You can slap that "neoconservative" label on him, even though I'm still not sure exactly what it means, but Prager is 100% right in what he said above.



He's makes a very good point here too.



The ones you mentioned above are notoriously liberal. Harvard, in particular.

Like I said above, when he responds with, "Prager is full of shit," that basically tells me that's he's going by knee-jerk political bias alone. That isn't worth being considered.

Obviously, the universities I quickly mentioned above are generally considered the cream of the crop but theres others on that list like UVA, Wash & Lee,Princeton, Dartmouth,Notre Dame, Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern,and others with more conservative bents if you want to come down to that.


When I responded with my initial comment its not a knee-jerk reaction. It's based on my opinion of his neo-conservative (Cheney, GW Bush, Lindsey Graham, etc) views which are very evident as shown in my previous posts above regardless if you agree with them or not. They are neo-conservative to its core.

Exactly, thank you Joe.

It is incredibly arrogant and presumptuous for Prager or anyone to suggest that the Muslim-American Ellison, whose American antecedents may well predate Prager's, is somehow being unAmerican and "undermining American civilization". What undermines American civilization is the backdoor religious test for office which Prager seems to think we ought to have. The Bible is not the central text for the American value system. In that respect Prager is the true false American of the two. There are plenty of theocracies to which Prager could move if he felt it necessary. Fortunately this country is not yet one of them.

WHAT?? Are you implying the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution weren't handed down to the founding fathers on gold plates by Jesus himself?

I'm sure if you were to ask Ivy, he'd say they were. I've pretty much bowed out of this and similar debates with Ivy, not because he's right and I have no further argument, but because it is impossible to have a rational and reasonable debate with someone who is irrational and unreasonable. I honestly feel sorry for Ivy.

Of course, there's Muslim Andre Carson of Indiana in the House also. So that's two of them. AND, there's a Hindu, 3 Buddhists and Catholics hold about 30% of seats in Congress. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can read the handwriting on the wall. At this rate, we atheists will be on the chopping block before long.

I, and a lot of other people, certainly believe the founding fathers were inspired by God when they created the Constitution and formed our government; as much as modern day secular liberals would like to think otherwise.



Get back to me after we've both passed on and you've seen the light.

Ivy you gotta quit with this "I know all" bullshit. Seriously this is what I'm talking about, no one wants to hear it. I don't proclaim my opinions to be fact and neither should you. Is it any wonder why you come off as an arrogant dick? Because you do to A LOT of people on here. I'll be the first to admit this board swings very far left at times, but you're that small group on the extreme right that absolutely nobody likes or cares for. Your ideal world is everyone else's nightmare

Well stated and a quite appropriate admonition.

There is a real simple answer to all your problems!

Just don't post back if you think the way you do!

Please don't call anyone a dick.

I only said he came off as a dick, but my apologies

While you're certainly right about this board swinging very far left (though it's most of the time), just out of curiosity, what puts me on the "extreme right?"

Not even Dick Nose?

Dickie your avatar of Fat Tony looks like Cotton Hill from King of the Hill.

Well economically you and I have never discussed our opinions. However you are socially on the right. Against abortion, gay marriage, and to go along with the fact you are very religious, those are all things associated with the far right. In my opinion what puts you on the extreme right is saying that all women should stay at home with the children, not serve in combat, only men should be breadwinners, in addition to associating our constitution and government under the complete influence of god. The last subject I still think is mainly opinion and open to debate and interpretation.

My quarrel is not with your religion Ivy, and though I disagree with most of your beliefs that's not what truly bothers me. It's the way you go about, refusing to acknowledge even for one second you could be wrong. I admire the fact you stick to your guns, but sometimes in life you gotta give a little. Tow the line between standing up for what you believe in and arrogance.

I admit I could be wrong about almost everything I believe to be true and right. Doesn't mean I won't stop believing in it, but I can admit when and if I'm wrong if the latter proves to be true. Can you? No one wants to hear "You'll see the light someday" or "this is it and nothing else". People on both sides of the political spectrum do it (especially liberals). But from the left and centrist point of view, people such as yourself are only trying to stir hatred and bring back a world that we left behind for a reason. Can you imagine being a woman or non-white person in the fifties or sixties? Think about that.

Where did he say that? I'm not saying he didn't, i just don't think i read it.

He didn't say that completely Camarel. But he did imply that a majority of households should have women as the caretaker and the man as the breadwinner

Fair enough.

Why did you choose the handle Giancarlo was that's f'd up man

F'd up? No Dickie whats fucked up is lowlife assholes doing home invasions and shooting innocent people.

And WTF do you care what name i have? Well numbnuts has it ever dawned on you thats my name? No?

Dickie when you going to the joint? Or did you dime out your partners? Come on Dickie, who'd you rat out?

Detective Giancarlo

Cut it out! Stop it now!