Where in the last three decades of mafia history have we had a group that has been able through "being low profile" avoid any arrests, convictions or fed tracking whatsoever for a number of year? Even the very best bosses (the Chin, Crea, etc) had lower level guys being arrested on a regular basis because of the large amount of criminal activity and fed pressure.

Chicago doesn't have many arrests because there is very little activity. Period. The other theories are big-foot like conspiracies.

Bunch of geriactrics thats for sure. I was just more commenting on the wikipedia dependence of some people.
Respect little nicky.

You are choosing to believe someone who thinks Detroit has 40-50 made members.

There are people who spend their lives studying Bigfoot too.

It's total nonsense.

Show me a police report, an FBI report, anything.

That is my point. No arrests = no activity, basically.

When I was growing up you would read about Jack Tocco occassionally, people like that. Hell I knew some of them myself.

Detroit is completely different than any other city in the country. There is no city, there are few old-school working class neighborhoods where traditional mob rackets would flourish. It is basically hosues and stripmalls.

The Italians live in Macomb County on the East Side and are at least third, fourth generation, and there is very little sense of community identify. There is no "Little Italy" in Detorit, nothing even close. Italian concentrations are around St. Clair Shores.

What's left of the blue collar neighborhoods, which are basically working poor neighborhoods now, are on exact other side of the city, what we call Down River.

I believe there is likely still a small amount of mob activity in Detroit but like I originally posted it is so small and so insignificant that it's like calling a pond a sea.

Give me an article on the last hit, the last large scale bust--anything.

I am not choosing to side with either. I am merely saying that anyone who things they have a monopoly on the truth is bat shit.

Since 2000 Detroit has had 3 mob hits

Reference.

Scott Burnstein meets in person (last week) with Detroit based FBI agents assigned to investigate OC in the city. He has developed a working relationship with these agents. They share current 'estimate' hierarchy charts with him. Scott also has contacts on the other side of the fence there. Is it so hard to fathom the following estimates are in the realm of possibility:
25 to 30 active members; 4 or 5 capos; an established and complete administration. About another 10 retired or shelved members.

Recent indictments? How about the D'Anna brothers are going to prison for beating a competitive restaurant owner with a baseball bat. The Family exists fella.

That said, I certainly that the amount of racketeering activity has decreased over the years- in every city. Along with the membership numbers.

Jonnynonose, in one post (above) you stated that you do not know much about Detroit, only Chicago. Then your next post you contradict your previous post by saying you DO know about Detroit. Which one is it? What information does the FBI provide directly to you regarding the current status of the Detroit Family? Just another one on the long list of guys breaking Scott Burnsteins' balls for no apparent reason.

Post a link to an article referencing the FBI's estimate of 25-30 members in Detroit and I will admit I am wrong. Period.

I know a lot about Detroit as an area.

I don't know (relatively speaking) nearly as much about the Detroit Partnership as I do the Chicago Outfit.

Here's a link to an FBI sourced article estimating 24 Detroit made members in 1984.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1988&dat=19930103&id=U4s1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=Eq0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=2954,175925

You are positing that the membership has either maintained or grown in 30 years, which would run opposite to every mob in every city in the country and more than that, even, contrary to common sense.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/06/24/organized-crime-in-detroit-forgotten-but-not-gone/

It says 3 between 1998 and 2002.

It also has the 40-50 number. Where is he getting that?

No offense, I'm sure Burnstein has done some good work, but people who devote their entire lives to this sh*t tend to have a need to believe it is "healthier than ever." You see it over and over.

Tony Zarelli the number two... right, last year he was running around saying he knows where Hoffa is buried to try to sell a book. Sounds like he is neither the number two or has any fear of the "Partnership" whatsoever.

Detroit Partnership circa 1965 headline crime: Controlled Teamsters

Detroit Partnership circa 2010 headline crime: Possibly mob affiliated mongloid brothers attack competing restaurant owner with bat.

Just for the record, Scott doesn't really say that; he has stated that he feels that the family will be essentially gone in 20 years due to there being almost no young people in its ranks.

Scott knows more about Detroit that any of you

Uh huh. Wasn't he the author of the Outfit organizational chart you all used to use to argue that Chicago had 150 made guys or whatever it was?

People are not reading my first post,But chicago outfit is not like know other family.Chicago have not had 150 made men and years.Chicago is broke down into 4 diff crews(family)With everyone answering to John DiFronzo aka (Boss of all bosses)

Like white said the outfit hasn't had a making ceremony that we know of since the 80s so there only being 30 going through the ceremony is not a surprise. But guy's who have the influence of a made guy is well above that. And even if they're not, the chart shows that they still have a lot if man power which disproves the "30 made men and 100 associates" theory.

What he's saying may not be popular but jonnynonos is right.

First, Chicago. That chart Scott and Atardi make up in 2010, while impressive looking, is very misleading. Atardi told me most of the info used to compile that chart came from the Chicago Crime Commission. That's strange, considering the CCC estimated the Outfit had approximately 70 members back in 1997. Now, 16 years later, it's over 90? More recently, Scott said he used the term "soldier" in a generic sense. Why? Is he not aware what the term "soldier" implies, i.e. a made member? And if "soldier" doesn't necessarily mean a made member on that chart, then why did he list other guys as "associates?" What's the difference? All we need to know is what 2 FBI officials said in 2007 - the Outfit had 28-30 made members and a little over 100 associates at that time.

Second, Detroit. At the time of the big GamTax bust back in 2006, the Detroit LCN was said to have 30 members at most. People can choose to believe Detroit has somehow bucked the trend of every other LCN family and grown over the last 17 years but I find it very unlikely. And those who put so much stock in Scott's charts seem to overlook the fact his charts have constantly changed from 2006 to the present, showing anywhere from 30 to almost 60 members. After much debate over on the RD forum, he finally admitted he wasn't sure whether all those he listed are made. Why not? If he's so hooked in with the FBI, shouldn't he be a little more sure? Furthermore, why don't we seen anywhere near the amount of mob cases in Detroit that we still see in Chicago, New England, or Philadelphia? Certain people have done their best to come up with explanations for the lack of indictments in recent years but none of them really hold water. Anyway, I'm willing to bet we'll see relatively little in the way of mob news or cases coming out of Detroit in the next 10-15 years. In other words, just like the last 10-15 years.