I read somewhere the gangster Jeff Fort in Chicago had 2 associates of the Chicago outfit killed. Why do you think there has been no retaliation, did Accardo think Fort was a force to be reckoned with or was it just that he didn't care?

That was around 72 and Jeff was called to a sit-down due to him expanding the stones extortion around the southside. The outfit still had a protection racket for some street dealers and after the sit down jeff had 2 associates killed and left in front of the outfit headquarters but for business the outfit didn't do anything because they already have other lucrative rackets.

the syndicate didn't do shit because jeff fort wasn't a joke

jeff fort had access to no less than 3,000 shooters

This is why the mob needs younger guys like in their 20s so they can enforce the rules, like those guys that did that to carmine persico with the juice, those older mobsters need to realize that these other gangs don't have respect for them. These older mobsters cant get physical anymore there just old and decrepit.

I doubt he had 300 shooters. Carrying a gun with your pants hanging down by your ass doesn't make you a shooter

people weren't sagging their pants in the 70s or 80s

jeff fort gave the order to have john gotti fucked up in prison

Good. Let them keep on killing each other. They're scum.

They should learn how to aim and shoot first. They have missed and hit bystanders too many times.

There was no 'order' to have John Gotti fucked up in prison. He just abused the wrong guy and paid for it.

As for Jeff Fort... some syndicate people were known to have crooked cops pick people off the street and deliver them to their deaths. Like Casso did with Jimmy Hydell.

What was Jeff Fort going to do if one night some cops pulled him over for a traffic violation, and the next thing he knows he's getting the blowtorch treatment?

Pretty much. There are shooters and there are shooters. Some are professionals. And some are the type that spray a Mac-10 in a drive-by and hit women or children instead of their intended target.
I don't know which type Jeff Fort had, but I know which type Chicago had...
***

Look, the mob was never all-powerful, everyone with half a brain knows that. But in its prime it was the most powerful crime organization the US has ever seen or ever will see. Trying to rewrite history and make it seem like they could have been bullied by street gangs won't change that.

nobody would have assaulted john gotti without getting an okay from whoever ran that prison. jeff fort had the most clout in marion at the time and he was mysteriously shipped to Colorado the same year gotti got assaulted.....go figure

jeff forts body guards didn't let anybody near him

you ain't got a clue about jeff fort so just leave it alone

He probably had his own set of hitmen and enforcers as well as the gang itself. At the height of his power he probably could have put the green light out on anyone and any gangmember could have stepped up to do the job when opportunity raised its head. But that doesnt mean that 3,000 gangmembers were personally at his beck and call at any time. But i agree he was no joke, at the time i believe he said something that was directed at the police and also subtly at the outfit "there wont be killing without killing". if you take into consideration that at the time he was suspected of ordering a number of ambush/killings of cops he was definatley someone that could cause alot of havoc and chaos for the outfit. They gotta have thought we dont want this shit happening in our neck of the woods.

So now you go from 'ordered it' to 'okayed it'...
And why would anyone need an ok to assault Gotti? In Marion he was just an old white man, hundreds of miles away from New York, his powerbase.
For the reccord Robert Edward Molley aka "Midget Molly", a huge drug dealer, was in Marion when that happened, and he said what everyone else said: that it was a spur of the moment thing. Gotti abused a black guy who didn't give a fuck about anyone and got beat up for it.
If you're referring to Florence, then no, he was moved there in 2006. There goes your theory.
And I'm pretty sure the Aryan Brotherhood had the most clout in Marion, but that's neither here nor there...


Then how was he arrested?

jeff fort was not shipped to Colorado in 2006

ordered it, okayed it is the same difference

in marion john gotti was still john gotti

the Aryan brotherhood ain't running shit in Illinois department of corrections

you do understand marion is a federal prison, right? the brotherhood has always had a strong powerbase at the federal level, including marion, especially around that time when it was still a max joint. i believe its a medium security prison today though.

Everywhere i've read about Fort says he was transferred to Florence in 2006 like here for example - http://www.biography.com/people/jeff-fort-578620?page=2 scroll down to the bottom. When do you say he was transferred?

I see these blood/crip and other low level street gangs as little kids without brains. They're shooting each other for no absolute reason and that's pretty wrong. Currently I think it's all the drug game that runs it.

If we speak about power. Gangs got number, but quality goes over quantity. I think that an Italian or Russian mob if they needed to get rid of a gang would just crush them over with tactics and professionalism. Like what can a 15 year old kid with a pistol that he barely holds in his hands do against a 25 year old Russian who's straight out of the army also with a gun. I guess it's only a miracle if the youngster would kill the Russian in this situation.

Prison is a different place, it's the inside. There are different rules than on the outside. If I was a powerful mobster, then best way to make my way in prison beef is to manipulate with the enemy by touching his family. Just like tha Mexican Mafia did to tax all those streetgangs.

In Russia, I can say an example how inside prison turned on mobsters. Almost everyone has heard of Alexander Solonik. His gangs - Kurganskaya three leaders were leading their hitman brigade. On the outside they were big bosses and influental. They were responsible even for killing Thieves in Law. Well when they got in prison, who runs the prison? Thieves in Law. So all of them got beaten to death on the inside.

I also read about a theory that at least one of them (Oleg Neliubin I think) was killed on Sergei Butorin's orders, so he couldn't talk. Some informant said Butorin simply made a call to one of the many illegal phones in prison.

They were pretty much on the end trying to cut ties with Orekhovskaya and were up to try and take over Moscow on their own. That could also actually be a reason to get them killed.

Kurganskaya is the brigade that I know as most fucked up till the core. They didn't pay their own men money, the leaders just kept it for themselves. Others were given just money to buy food and to pay for their apartment. They made one guy to kill his best friend, as he hadn't killed anyone. That's why the group fell apart right from the start.

I also read there later was a big confusion about who did what: some crimes of the Butorin's Orekhovskaya were attributed to the Kurganskaya etc. There is also that Sergei "Sylvester" Timofeev story, nobody knows who killed him, if it was Butorin, the Kurganskaya, or did he fake his death.
Anyway, you are right, those groups were really out of control and played dirty even by the underworld standards. There is also Dmitriy Belkin, the leader of the "Odinzovskaya" part of the organization, who is still on trial and is mostly famous for ordering the 1998 murder of Yuriy Kerez, a law enforcement official who was the first one to open an investigation using the article n.210 (organization of the criminal association - something like the American RICO), that is usually very hard to prove.

From my understanding, Jeff Fort have been locked in Florence Max since 86 because he was charged with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act on behalf of a foreign government and plus more which is about 200 years. During his time as Chief over the entire stones their membership was at 5,000 but then he arrested and released around 77 in which he formed the El Rukns which consisted of exclusively his high ranking leaders which numbered around 200. The CPD,ATF,DEA, and FBI was on them.

Hello, PolakVet. I'm quite interested in organized crime in the CIS countries that you post.
Yes, you're right about the drug business that they're involved in and they do have quantity but that's not always the case. Well it's not all teens but a mix of adults too. Matter of fact is that some of these kids don't care who is the threat and will kill anybody.

Indeed prison is vastly different and actually this is where the gangs are more of a mob inside illinois prisons. Actually La Eme have only some gangs under thier control but others refuse them per say.

Florence was only opened in 1994 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADX_Florence

I believe he was transferred from Marion to Florence in 2006.

Ok thanks for the clear up.

the Aryan brotherhood ain't running shit in Illinois department of corrections [/quote]

Well this much is true marion is a fed joint, but your right thr brothers do got the juice in IDOC

There is a video somewhere on youtube, where they show that Sylvestr is alive. Well it's some older guy who looks like him in it. I couldn't find it currently, but I'll search a bit later. I read also an article that even Russian Organized Crime Police thinks that Sylvestr is alive. In that article it was also mentioned that he was seen with the Thief in Law - Rospis' in Moscow.


Happy to know that there's also someone else on this forum who's interested in Russian OC

fort was transferred outta marion in 96/97

he hasn't been running the stones since 96/97

they shipped fort outta Illinois after the incident with gotti

Have you got a source for that? Everywhere i've read about him it says 2006.

not an internet source but I know a few stones

jeff fort got shipped outta marion well before 2006

Respect Polak Vet.
The best analogy I can come with is the Sopranos, now, as we know the show is fiction, but we also know that the show took the illicit scam storys from real life.
Tony had the HUD scam going with Zelman and the black assemblyman. Tony sees that there is potential for more money to be juiced from the copper pipe. He has Zelman get the black assemblyman to send some gangbangers down there and remove the crack heads from the premises.
On the other side of it you have the time when Bobby got his eye shot out by the black gangbangers. Does that mean they are more organized?
Respect Black Familyl; you sound like an educated fellow.

I think the power and influence really comes from what you are and how you grow up and what drives you to be what you are.

Some guy is driven by money and he earns it, other is driven by some hood street respect and that's their goal.