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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714169
05/05/13 10:29 PM
05/05/13 10:29 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,881 The Jokers Social Club
DickNose_Moltasanti
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That was around 72 and Jeff was called to a sit-down due to him expanding the stones extortion around the southside. The outfit still had a protection racket for some street dealers and after the sit down jeff had 2 associates killed and left in front of the outfit headquarters but for business the outfit didn't do anything because they already have other lucrative rackets. the syndicate didn't do shit because jeff fort wasn't a joke jeff fort had access to no less than 3,000 shooters I doubt he had 300 shooters. Carrying a gun with your pants hanging down by your ass doesn't make you a shooter
Random Poster:"I'm sorry I didn't go to an Ivy-league school like you"
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: DickNose_Moltasanti]
#714176
05/06/13 12:25 AM
05/06/13 12:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
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That was around 72 and Jeff was called to a sit-down due to him expanding the stones extortion around the southside. The outfit still had a protection racket for some street dealers and after the sit down jeff had 2 associates killed and left in front of the outfit headquarters but for business the outfit didn't do anything because they already have other lucrative rackets. the syndicate didn't do shit because jeff fort wasn't a joke jeff fort had access to no less than 3,000 shooters I doubt he had 300 shooters. Carrying a gun with your pants hanging down by your ass doesn't make you a shooter people weren't sagging their pants in the 70s or 80s jeff fort gave the order to have john gotti fucked up in prison
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: DickNose_Moltasanti]
#714209
05/06/13 06:25 AM
05/06/13 06:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Tyler_Durden
Made Member
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Made Member
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Posts: 111
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There was no 'order' to have John Gotti fucked up in prison. He just abused the wrong guy and paid for it. As for Jeff Fort... some syndicate people were known to have crooked cops pick people off the street and deliver them to their deaths. Like Casso did with Jimmy Hydell. What was Jeff Fort going to do if one night some cops pulled him over for a traffic violation, and the next thing he knows he's getting the blowtorch treatment? I doubt he had 300 shooters. Carrying a gun with your pants hanging down by your ass doesn't make you a shooter Pretty much. There are shooters and there are shooters. Some are professionals. And some are the type that spray a Mac-10 in a drive-by and hit women or children instead of their intended target. I don't know which type Jeff Fort had, but I know which type Chicago had... *** Look, the mob was never all-powerful, everyone with half a brain knows that. But in its prime it was the most powerful crime organization the US has ever seen or ever will see. Trying to rewrite history and make it seem like they could have been bullied by street gangs won't change that.
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: Tyler_Durden]
#714259
05/06/13 01:22 PM
05/06/13 01:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
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There was no 'order' to have John Gotti fucked up in prison. He just abused the wrong guy and paid for it. As for Jeff Fort... some syndicate people were known to have crooked cops pick people off the street and deliver them to their deaths. Like Casso did with Jimmy Hydell. What was Jeff Fort going to do if one night some cops pulled him over for a traffic violation, and the next thing he knows he's getting the blowtorch treatment? I doubt he had 300 shooters. Carrying a gun with your pants hanging down by your ass doesn't make you a shooter Pretty much. There are shooters and there are shooters. Some are professionals. And some are the type that spray a Mac-10 in a drive-by and hit women or children instead of their intended target. I don't know which type Jeff Fort had, but I know which type Chicago had... *** Look, the mob was never all-powerful, everyone with half a brain knows that. But in its prime it was the most powerful crime organization the US has ever seen or ever will see. Trying to rewrite history and make it seem like they could have been bullied by street gangs won't change that. nobody would have assaulted john gotti without getting an okay from whoever ran that prison. jeff fort had the most clout in marion at the time and he was mysteriously shipped to Colorado the same year gotti got assaulted.....go figure jeff forts body guards didn't let anybody near him you ain't got a clue about jeff fort so just leave it alone
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714281
05/06/13 02:16 PM
05/06/13 02:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
Scorsese
Underboss
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Posts: 3,571
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That was around 72 and Jeff was called to a sit-down due to him expanding the stones extortion around the southside. The outfit still had a protection racket for some street dealers and after the sit down jeff had 2 associates killed and left in front of the outfit headquarters but for business the outfit didn't do anything because they already have other lucrative rackets. the syndicate didn't do shit because jeff fort wasn't a joke jeff fort had access to no less than 3,000 shooters He probably had his own set of hitmen and enforcers as well as the gang itself. At the height of his power he probably could have put the green light out on anyone and any gangmember could have stepped up to do the job when opportunity raised its head. But that doesnt mean that 3,000 gangmembers were personally at his beck and call at any time. But i agree he was no joke, at the time i believe he said something that was directed at the police and also subtly at the outfit "there wont be killing without killing". if you take into consideration that at the time he was suspected of ordering a number of ambush/killings of cops he was definatley someone that could cause alot of havoc and chaos for the outfit. They gotta have thought we dont want this shit happening in our neck of the woods.
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714304
05/06/13 03:26 PM
05/06/13 03:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 111
Tyler_Durden
Made Member
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Made Member
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Posts: 111
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nobody would have assaulted john gotti without getting an okay from whoever ran that prison.
So now you go from 'ordered it' to 'okayed it'... And why would anyone need an ok to assault Gotti? In Marion he was just an old white man, hundreds of miles away from New York, his powerbase. For the reccord Robert Edward Molley aka "Midget Molly", a huge drug dealer, was in Marion when that happened, and he said what everyone else said: that it was a spur of the moment thing. Gotti abused a black guy who didn't give a fuck about anyone and got beat up for it. jeff fort had the most clout in marion at the time and he was mysteriously shipped to Colorado the same year gotti got assaulted.....go figure If you're referring to Florence, then no, he was moved there in 2006. There goes your theory. And I'm pretty sure the Aryan Brotherhood had the most clout in Marion, but that's neither here nor there... jeff forts body guards didn't let anybody near him Then how was he arrested?
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: Tyler_Durden]
#714312
05/06/13 04:58 PM
05/06/13 04:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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nobody would have assaulted john gotti without getting an okay from whoever ran that prison.
So now you go from 'ordered it' to 'okayed it'... And why would anyone need an ok to assault Gotti? In Marion he was just an old white man, hundreds of miles away from New York, his powerbase. For the reccord Robert Edward Molley aka "Midget Molly", a huge drug dealer, was in Marion when that happened, and he said what everyone else said: that it was a spur of the moment thing. Gotti abused a black guy who didn't give a fuck about anyone and got beat up for it. jeff fort had the most clout in marion at the time and he was mysteriously shipped to Colorado the same year gotti got assaulted.....go figure If you're referring to Florence, then no, he was moved there in 2006. There goes your theory. And I'm pretty sure the Aryan Brotherhood had the most clout in Marion, but that's neither here nor there... jeff forts body guards didn't let anybody near him Then how was he arrested? jeff fort was not shipped to Colorado in 2006 ordered it, okayed it is the same difference in marion john gotti was still john gotti the Aryan brotherhood ain't running shit in Illinois department of corrections
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714317
05/06/13 05:32 PM
05/06/13 05:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
Underboss
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Posts: 2,809
Scotland
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nobody would have assaulted john gotti without getting an okay from whoever ran that prison.
So now you go from 'ordered it' to 'okayed it'... And why would anyone need an ok to assault Gotti? In Marion he was just an old white man, hundreds of miles away from New York, his powerbase. For the reccord Robert Edward Molley aka "Midget Molly", a huge drug dealer, was in Marion when that happened, and he said what everyone else said: that it was a spur of the moment thing. Gotti abused a black guy who didn't give a fuck about anyone and got beat up for it. jeff fort had the most clout in marion at the time and he was mysteriously shipped to Colorado the same year gotti got assaulted.....go figure If you're referring to Florence, then no, he was moved there in 2006. There goes your theory. And I'm pretty sure the Aryan Brotherhood had the most clout in Marion, but that's neither here nor there... jeff forts body guards didn't let anybody near him Then how was he arrested? jeff fort was not shipped to Colorado in 2006 ordered it, okayed it is the same difference in marion john gotti was still john gotti the Aryan brotherhood ain't running shit in Illinois department of corrections Everywhere i've read about Fort says he was transferred to Florence in 2006 like here for example - http://www.biography.com/people/jeff-fort-578620?page=2 scroll down to the bottom. When do you say he was transferred?
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#714326
05/06/13 06:40 PM
05/06/13 06:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490 Latvia
ThePolakVet
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490
Latvia
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I also read about a theory that at least one of them (Oleg Neliubin I think) was killed on Sergei Butorin's orders, so he couldn't talk. Some informant said Butorin simply made a call to one of the many illegal phones in prison.
They were pretty much on the end trying to cut ties with Orekhovskaya and were up to try and take over Moscow on their own. That could also actually be a reason to get them killed. Kurganskaya is the brigade that I know as most fucked up till the core. They didn't pay their own men money, the leaders just kept it for themselves. Others were given just money to buy food and to pay for their apartment. They made one guy to kill his best friend, as he hadn't killed anyone. That's why the group fell apart right from the start.
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: ThePolakVet]
#714327
05/06/13 07:15 PM
05/06/13 07:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,781
Dwalin2011
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,781
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Kurganskaya is the brigade that I know as most fucked up till the core. They didn't pay their own men money, the leaders just kept it for themselves. Others were given just money to buy food and to pay for their apartment. They made one guy to kill his best friend, as he hadn't killed anyone. That's why the group fell apart right from the start.
I also read there later was a big confusion about who did what: some crimes of the Butorin's Orekhovskaya were attributed to the Kurganskaya etc. There is also that Sergei "Sylvester" Timofeev story, nobody knows who killed him, if it was Butorin, the Kurganskaya, or did he fake his death. Anyway, you are right, those groups were really out of control and played dirty even by the underworld standards. There is also Dmitriy Belkin, the leader of the "Odinzovskaya" part of the organization, who is still on trial and is mostly famous for ordering the 1998 murder of Yuriy Kerez, a law enforcement official who was the first one to open an investigation using the article n.210 (organization of the criminal association - something like the American RICO), that is usually very hard to prove.
Last edited by Dwalin2011; 05/06/13 07:16 PM.
Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:
1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."
2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714370
05/07/13 01:24 AM
05/07/13 01:24 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 432 Chicagoland
SgWaue86
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 432
Chicagoland
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the Aryan brotherhood ain't running shit in Illinois department of corrections [/quote]
Well this much is true marion is a fed joint, but your right thr brothers do got the juice in IDOC
Last edited by SgWaue86; 05/07/13 01:25 AM.
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: Dwalin2011]
#714385
05/07/13 07:38 AM
05/07/13 07:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490 Latvia
ThePolakVet
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490
Latvia
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Kurganskaya is the brigade that I know as most fucked up till the core. They didn't pay their own men money, the leaders just kept it for themselves. Others were given just money to buy food and to pay for their apartment. They made one guy to kill his best friend, as he hadn't killed anyone. That's why the group fell apart right from the start.
I also read there later was a big confusion about who did what: some crimes of the Butorin's Orekhovskaya were attributed to the Kurganskaya etc. There is also that Sergei "Sylvester" Timofeev story, nobody knows who killed him, if it was Butorin, the Kurganskaya, or did he fake his death. Anyway, you are right, those groups were really out of control and played dirty even by the underworld standards. There is also Dmitriy Belkin, the leader of the "Odinzovskaya" part of the organization, who is still on trial and is mostly famous for ordering the 1998 murder of Yuriy Kerez, a law enforcement official who was the first one to open an investigation using the article n.210 (organization of the criminal association - something like the American RICO), that is usually very hard to prove. There is a video somewhere on youtube, where they show that Sylvestr is alive. Well it's some older guy who looks like him in it. I couldn't find it currently, but I'll search a bit later. I read also an article that even Russian Organized Crime Police thinks that Sylvestr is alive. In that article it was also mentioned that he was seen with the Thief in Law - Rospis' in Moscow. Hello, PolakVet. I'm quite interested in organized crime in the CIS countries that you post. Yes, you're right about the drug business that they're involved in and they do have quantity but that's not always the case. Well it's not all teens but a mix of adults too. Matter of fact is that some of these kids don't care who is the threat and will kill anybody.
Indeed prison is vastly different and actually this is where the gangs are more of a mob inside illinois prisons. Actually La Eme have only some gangs under thier control but others refuse them per say. Happy to know that there's also someone else on this forum who's interested in Russian OC
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: BlackFamily]
#714397
05/07/13 09:20 AM
05/07/13 09:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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From my understanding, Jeff Fort have been locked in Florence Max since 86 because he was charged with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act on behalf of a foreign government and plus more which is about 200 years. During his time as Chief over the entire stones their membership was at 5,000 but then he arrested and released around 77 in which he formed the El Rukns which consisted of exclusively his high ranking leaders which numbered around 200. The CPD,ATF,DEA, and FBI was on them. fort was transferred outta marion in 96/97 he hasn't been running the stones since 96/97 they shipped fort outta Illinois after the incident with gotti
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: cookcounty]
#714399
05/07/13 09:24 AM
05/07/13 09:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809 Scotland
Camarel
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
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From my understanding, Jeff Fort have been locked in Florence Max since 86 because he was charged with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act on behalf of a foreign government and plus more which is about 200 years. During his time as Chief over the entire stones their membership was at 5,000 but then he arrested and released around 77 in which he formed the El Rukns which consisted of exclusively his high ranking leaders which numbered around 200. The CPD,ATF,DEA, and FBI was on them. fort was transferred outta marion in 96/97 he hasn't been running the stones since 96/97 they shipped fort outta Illinois after the incident with gotti Have you got a source for that? Everywhere i've read about him it says 2006.
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: Camarel]
#714402
05/07/13 09:32 AM
05/07/13 09:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
cookcounty
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
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From my understanding, Jeff Fort have been locked in Florence Max since 86 because he was charged with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act on behalf of a foreign government and plus more which is about 200 years. During his time as Chief over the entire stones their membership was at 5,000 but then he arrested and released around 77 in which he formed the El Rukns which consisted of exclusively his high ranking leaders which numbered around 200. The CPD,ATF,DEA, and FBI was on them. fort was transferred outta marion in 96/97 he hasn't been running the stones since 96/97 they shipped fort outta Illinois after the incident with gotti Have you got a source for that? Everywhere i've read about him it says 2006. not an internet source but I know a few stones jeff fort got shipped outta marion well before 2006
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Re: crip kills blood
[Re: vinnietoothpicks26]
#714413
05/07/13 10:37 AM
05/07/13 10:37 AM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 525 So-Cal
vinnietoothpicks26
OP
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Respect Polak Vet. The best analogy I can come with is the Sopranos, now, as we know the show is fiction, but we also know that the show took the illicit scam storys from real life. Tony had the HUD scam going with Zelman and the black assemblyman. Tony sees that there is potential for more money to be juiced from the copper pipe. He has Zelman get the black assemblyman to send some gangbangers down there and remove the crack heads from the premises. On the other side of it you have the time when Bobby got his eye shot out by the black gangbangers. Does that mean they are more organized? Respect Black Familyl; you sound like an educated fellow.
Last edited by vinnietoothpicks26; 05/07/13 10:38 AM.
Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
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