Originally Posted By: XDCX
If Adam and Eve's partaking of the fruit was all part of "God's plan", it suggests they had no choice in the matter. What you and every other Christian I have talked to can't seem to reconcile is there can't be some big "master plan" if free will exists. And if their partaking of the forbidden fruit (thus creating this "fallen world") was all part of God's "master plan", then, all due respect, God is a dick.


God's plan, which includes His foreknowledge of what will happen, in no way minimizes our free will. It was Adam and Eve's choice to partake of the fruit. There is no "predestination" involved here.

We all knew about the Fall long before the earth was even created. It was part of the entire plan which we agreed to. The whole reason for this life was to obtain mortal bodies, live in a fallen world, and prove that we would be obedient to God's commandments under these conditions. In other words, a period of testing. The Fall being a part of the plan was why Christ was chosen as the Savior from the foundation of the world. God knew we would live in a world with sin and would need to be saved. Adam and Eve's choice did lead to the Fall, but it was a fall forward. They did live in paradise in the Garden of Eden but they (and us) couldn't progress in that state.

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There is no logic in any argument you have made. None of it makes any sense, and it isn't from a lack of understanding on the parts of the non-believers. It makes no sense, because it is all utter nonsense.


But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. - 1 Corinthians 2:14

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Oh, and this bullshit about it being in the back of the minds of every athiest that their day of reckoning is coming? I have no fear of judgement, because when I die, I'll be worm food. Same as you. Nothing more.


Notice I said nothing about "reckoning." I have never said that hell fire necessarily awaits the nonbelievers. God will judge each of us according to the light and knowledge we had while on this earth. If you go to the grave believing as you do now, you will as yet have a chance to accept the gospel in the spirit world. The "wake up call" I've mentioned simply means the immediate moments after you die, when your spirit leaves your body, and you finally see that death is not the end.


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