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Re: JFK
[Re: Skinny]
#708424
04/04/13 09:29 PM
04/04/13 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 160
Jenkins
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 160
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Heard skinny joey made his bones with this hit. I heard the old school guys call Joey "Rusty" because of the rusty trombone he performed on a homeless guy back in the early 90's. But seriously folks, didn't Richard Kuklinski kill JFK?
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Re: JFK
[Re: Jenkins]
#708429
04/04/13 09:48 PM
04/04/13 09:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,624
AZ
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Both the CIA and the FBI witheld important information from the Warren Commission. The CIA didn't tell them about "Operation Mongoose," the plan to use the Mafia to help get rid of Castro, nor did they tell them about their surveillance of the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City--where they had double agents and had observed Oswald's visits in September 1963. The FBI didn't tell the Commission about unauthorized wiretaps they had, on which Marcello, Trafficante and others talked about wanting JFK and/or RFK dead.
Within days of the assassination, J. Edgar Hoover told LBJ that Oswald had acted alone. The Bureau produced a five-volume, 25,000-page "report," using 2,500 interviews--and presented it to the Warren Commission just four days after the Commission's first meeting, in early December 1963. Plus, the Commission was in a big hurry to conclude its work before the 1964 Presidential election.
None of the above necessarily proves that JFK was the victim of a conspiracy. But, given the large volume of information that both agencies witheld, and the indecent haste with which the Commission concluded its work--and the passage of almost half a century--we can't conclude with certainty that there wasn't a conspiracy to kill JFK. All that's certain is that we'll never know for sure.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: JFK
[Re: TonyG]
#708431
04/04/13 10:04 PM
04/04/13 10:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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Using the same rifle (6.5 mm Carcano Model 91/38), marksmen have gotten off 3 shots in the time frame consistent with the audio recording on the police scanner and analysis of the Zapruder film. The time frame is always debated (from 4.8 to almost 8 seconds).
Even still, CBS did a study in the 60's with 11 marksman shooting the same model gun, and most of them hit the target with 2 of 3 shots in 5 seconds.
The other debatable issue is how many shots were fired. Blakey and the Senate Committee based much of their conclusions on the audio recordings, which suggested more than 3 shots were fired. A modern re-examination of the recording demonstrated that the 1970's analysis was flawed - they counted echos as shots. Blakey has said that it now seems clear only 3 shots were fired. Despite that, he is still on record that he believes the mob was involved.
IMO, the Mob was involved using LHO as the patsy and the shooter. I don't believe there were shots fired by anyone else (ie the grassy knoll). I do believe that Oswald slipped out of the book depository to avoid getting caught. I believe Ruby killed him to shut him up, on behalf of the mob.
I do not believe it goes beyond the mob. I don't think the CIA, Lyndon Johnson, Israel, Cuba, the Russians or anyone else was involved. For me, it is pretty simple = the Kennedy's double crossed the mob, and the mob did what they do to people who do that. First, was the target these marksmen were shooting at moving at the same speed and at the same distance and angle as JFK's motorcade? Second, were these marksmen considered comparable or better shots than Oswald? Third, one has to take into account the extreme nervousness that would be present in the shooter at the moment he's taking aim at the president. I'm not sure they can really recreate that.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: JFK
[Re: TonyG]
#708568
04/05/13 01:47 PM
04/05/13 01:47 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
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IMO, the Mob was involved using LHO as the patsy and the shooter. I don't believe there were shots fired by anyone else (ie the grassy knoll). I do believe that Oswald slipped out of the book depository to avoid getting caught. I believe Ruby killed him to shut him up, on behalf of the mob.
I do not believe it goes beyond the mob. I don't think the CIA, Lyndon Johnson, Israel, Cuba, the Russians or anyone else was involved. For me, it is pretty simple = the Kennedy's double crossed the mob, and the mob did what they do to people who do that. I also believe the mob was involved. I also believe LHO was the shooter, or perhaps one of the shooters. But I don't beleive the mob could have done this on their own. They would have needed the support from powerful people within the government to organize the cover up. What I think is that the mob was designated to carry out the assassination, while other parties, such as listed above, were responsible for the cover up.
"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
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Re: JFK
[Re: andrewc]
#708582
04/05/13 03:27 PM
04/05/13 03:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 93
conopizza
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Button
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 93
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correct... people need to think clearly, step-by-step, and play reasonable %s... that CIA & Marcello/Trafficante were both involved is not at all mutually exclusive, esp. given Oswald's improbable travels and time in New Orleans. it's also-- obviously-- not at all mutually exclusive that Oswald was either a, or possibly the, shooter and there's still a conspiracy etc etc. *** re: CIA and Robert Kennedy, why do you say them specifically, because of their known experiments in mind control? Because obviously Sirhan was being run by someone... Question is who else in the Ambassador Hotel that night was in on it to get him in exact position and make sure he fired. If anyone was involved it was the CIA, not the mob! Before he died in 1978, David Sanchez Morales (ex CIA) said to his attorney - "I was in Dallas when we got the son of a bitch and I was in Los Angeles when we got the little bastard". RFK was certainly shot down by the CIA.
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Re: JFK
[Re: conopizza]
#708586
04/05/13 03:35 PM
04/05/13 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 128
andrewc
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 128
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A couple of ex CIA agents (including Morales) were spotted in the Ambassador Hotel waiting around and seemingly doing nothing just before RFK's speech. There is footage of them and their ex colleagues have stated they are 90% sure it was them when shown the footage. What were they doing there? They had no reason to be. Plus RFK was killed by a bullet from behind him, not in front of him as Sirhan was. I believe Sirhan was manipulated (he claims he can't remember anything) and there was likely more than one shooter, someone other than Sirhan killed him.
Last edited by andrewc; 04/05/13 03:36 PM.
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#708595
04/05/13 04:13 PM
04/05/13 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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If there was a conspiracy, and that's a big if, I don't think it was CIA, but rather rogue individuals who lost their minds during the cold war. Mob elements may have been recruited for clean up work and to create confusion, but I don't think they were directly involved in the shooting of JFK.
Last edited by ht2; 04/05/13 04:16 PM.
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#708617
04/05/13 05:26 PM
04/05/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
abc123
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
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We can all specululate guys its for free.
I think Operation 40 had something to do with the JFK HIT that is why Richard Milhous Nixon (January 9, 1913 – April 22, 1994) when up to his neck in it said tell the CIA bay of pigs, information Nixon new was that people he new from Operation 40 done the JFK hit but Nixon had no part in the JFK hit himself. the mob did not do it they may have done work with the CIA at the time but not the JFK hit. Links to Israel and some of the main players in the hit has now come out the the last number of years as with the mob there is links but no hard evidence to back up Israel on information available had a part in JFK hit.
CIA LBJ FBI if i was to say anyone it was CIA FBI LBJ Lee Harvey Oswald did shoot and hit JFK with others, Jack Ruby who he was working with LHO was in Israel before the JFK hit for what ? the mob would not have had the power to cover up after the fact and Warren Commission.
David Ferrie, David Morales,OILMAN HL Hunt, William Harvey, Allen Dulles,and the network around them people.
The network in Iran contra affair was the same network that did JFK hit they act outside the law when they do not get their own way.
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Re: JFK
[Re: abc123]
#708650
04/05/13 08:48 PM
04/05/13 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 160
OldSmoke
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 160
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We can all specululate guys its for free.
I think Operation 40 had something to do with the JFK HIT that is why Richard Milhous Nixon (January 9, 1913 – April 22, 1994) when up to his neck in it said tell the CIA bay of pigs, information Nixon new was that people he new from Operation 40 done the JFK hit but Nixon had no part in the JFK hit himself. the mob did not do it they may have done work with the CIA at the time but not the JFK hit. Links to Israel and some of the main players in the hit has now come out the the last number of years as with the mob there is links but no hard evidence to back up Israel on information available had a part in JFK hit.
CIA LBJ FBI if i was to say anyone it was CIA FBI LBJ Lee Harvey Oswald did shoot and hit JFK with others, Jack Ruby who he was working with LHO was in Israel before the JFK hit for what ? the mob would not have had the power to cover up after the fact and Warren Commission.
David Ferrie, David Morales,OILMAN HL Hunt, William Harvey, Allen Dulles,and the network around them people.
The network in Iran contra affair was the same network that did JFK hit they act outside the law when they do not get their own way.
I don't buy into these Israeli theories, not just because I don't buy all the "Jews rule the world" type of shit, but because if you really look into the matter, you will find that Israeli-American military cooperation actually began with the JFK administration. I personally think that the CIA (possibly with Dulles pulling strings) and the military (which would have had Curtis LeMay pulling strings) as most responsible. I don't doubt mob guys were involved, at the very least they eliminated the a conspirator when Ruby whacked Oswald.
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Re: JFK
[Re: OldSmoke]
#708974
04/07/13 08:56 AM
04/07/13 08:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
abc123
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
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We can all specululate guys its for free.
I think Operation 40 had something to do with the JFK HIT that is why Richard Milhous Nixon (January 9, 1913 – April 22, 1994) when up to his neck in it said tell the CIA bay of pigs, information Nixon new was that people he new from Operation 40 done the JFK hit but Nixon had no part in the JFK hit himself. the mob did not do it they may have done work with the CIA at the time but not the JFK hit. Links to Israel and some of the main players in the hit has now come out the the last number of years as with the mob there is links but no hard evidence to back up Israel on information available had a part in JFK hit.
CIA LBJ FBI if i was to say anyone it was CIA FBI LBJ Lee Harvey Oswald did shoot and hit JFK with others, Jack Ruby who he was working with LHO was in Israel before the JFK hit for what ? the mob would not have had the power to cover up after the fact and Warren Commission.
David Ferrie, David Morales,OILMAN HL Hunt, William Harvey, Allen Dulles,and the network around them people.
The network in Iran contra affair was the same network that did JFK hit they act outside the law when they do not get their own way.
I don't buy into these Israeli theories, not just because I don't buy all the "Jews rule the world" type of shit, but because if you really look into the matter, you will find that Israeli-American military cooperation actually began with the JFK administration. I personally think that the CIA (possibly with Dulles pulling strings) and the military (which would have had Curtis LeMay pulling strings) as most responsible. I don't doubt mob guys were involved, at the very least they eliminated the a conspirator when Ruby whacked Oswald. Ruby and Oswald were part of same unit. CIA 100 % in on it. there is Israeli and mob links to people who got hit done or did the hit it self but no evidence that Israeli or mob did or got the JFK done.
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Re: JFK
[Re: IvyLeague]
#709005
04/07/13 12:33 PM
04/07/13 12:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 498 Texas
TonyG
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 498
Texas
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First, was the target these marksmen were shooting at moving at the same speed and at the same distance and angle as JFK's motorcade? Yes, a concious effort was made to objectively simulate the same conditions, albeit without a sitting President riding in an open limo.
Second, were these marksmen considered comparable or better shots than Oswald? I believe that LHO had 2-3 different shooting scores (sharp shooter / marksman) while serving in the marines. CBS tried to find similiarly graded shooters. I think the old CBS show is still on you tube somewhere. I will see if I can find it.
Third, one has to take into account the extreme nervousness that would be present in the shooter at the moment he's taking aim at the president. I'm not sure they can really recreate that. I agree. There is no way to simulate that. There have been multiple efforts to sort out the number of shots and the timing of the shots that killed JFK. I am satisfied with the available evidence that it is possible for them to come form one gun and one shooter. But that is my opinion, and others are certainly welcome to accept or believe what they wish.
Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
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Re: JFK
[Re: HairyKnuckles]
#709013
04/07/13 01:31 PM
04/07/13 01:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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Good find! This debunks Posner´s claim of no "evidence of LHO and David Ferrie ever met". Posner´s book "Case closed" is often cited as the best researched book in favor of no conspiracy. Together with some documents found in the link I posted earlier, this find seems to discredit Posener´s book. Hardly evidence, the photo could have been doctored. Blakely makes a claim that they were childhood friends, despite no evidence to back that up. LHO and Ferrie were about 21 years apart in age. How many kids have childhood friends 21 years older?
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Re: JFK
[Re: Toodoped]
#709033
04/07/13 03:40 PM
04/07/13 03:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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The main suspects were Carlos Marcello,Trafficante and Giancana.Rumours that two of the shooters were Johnny Roselli and Chuckie Nicoletti Also, Lucien Sarti was rumored to have been part of it, along with Woody's father.
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#709034
04/07/13 03:44 PM
04/07/13 03:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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A lot of people wanted these guys dead, and for a lot of different reasons. And all together, they definitely had the balls to do it.
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#709035
04/07/13 03:47 PM
04/07/13 03:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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I don't think that just one of the groups/organizations would have had the total smooth turn-key solution to make such a project go so well. There had to have been lots of players.
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: Skinny]
#709036
04/07/13 03:48 PM
04/07/13 03:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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Heard skinny joey made his bones with this hit. Hahahaha!
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#709037
04/07/13 03:56 PM
04/07/13 03:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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Did LCN have a hand in blowing off JFK's head? If so who were the main players! They surely did bro! Hoover, Johnson, oil magnates, Hoffa, Giancana, Dulles, military men who had been embarassed by JFK/RFK, Marcello, Irish haters, and the list can go on and on...
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#709038
04/07/13 04:02 PM
04/07/13 04:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282 Nuevo Mexico
Vigil
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 282
Nuevo Mexico
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Did any of you guys read about the stuff Trafficante set up for JFK in Havana? The book Havana Nocturne tells some about it. Crazy action party/sex-wise. Then I think the Kennedy bros got a little self-righteous about Cosa Nostra. Then the Cosa Nostra guys got sick of their hypocrisy...and more importantly, the Kennedys were bad for the OC business.
*** il capo di tutti capi ***
"You'll never meet another guy like me if you live to be 5, 000." -John Gotti
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Re: JFK
[Re: ht2]
#709056
04/07/13 06:09 PM
04/07/13 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
abc123
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
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Good find! This debunks Posner´s claim of no "evidence of LHO and David Ferrie ever met". Posner´s book "Case closed" is often cited as the best researched book in favor of no conspiracy. Together with some documents found in the link I posted earlier, this find seems to discredit Posener´s book. Hardly evidence, the photo could have been doctored. Blakely makes a claim that they were childhood friends, despite no evidence to back that up. LHO and Ferrie were about 21 years apart in age. How many kids have childhood friends 21 years older? doctored ? sure they were part of the same unit and a girl says she knew the two of them well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZbMrgJEUmM
Last edited by abc123; 04/07/13 06:15 PM.
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Re: JFK
[Re: abc123]
#709063
04/07/13 06:20 PM
04/07/13 06:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
ht2
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 368
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Good find! This debunks Posner´s claim of no "evidence of LHO and David Ferrie ever met". Posner´s book "Case closed" is often cited as the best researched book in favor of no conspiracy. Together with some documents found in the link I posted earlier, this find seems to discredit Posener´s book. BTW, wasn´t Ferrie extremely weird looking? Yes Photograph tells its own story. How do we know photo isn't fake? Is it proof they knew each other?
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Re: JFK
[Re: ht2]
#709066
04/07/13 06:48 PM
04/07/13 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
abc123
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
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Good find! This debunks Posner´s claim of no "evidence of LHO and David Ferrie ever met". Posner´s book "Case closed" is often cited as the best researched book in favor of no conspiracy. Together with some documents found in the link I posted earlier, this find seems to discredit Posener´s book. BTW, wasn´t Ferrie extremely weird looking? Yes Photograph tells its own story. How do we know photo isn't fake? Is it proof they knew each other? There you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZbMrgJEUmMi put it up already.
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Re: JFK
[Re: EastHarlemItal]
#709073
04/07/13 07:36 PM
04/07/13 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
abc123
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,146
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