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Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
#706547
03/27/13 04:39 PM
03/27/13 04:39 PM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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I want to bang on this for a minute. When the first wave of Italian immigrants came to the US, they weren't considered "so-called" white correct?? How hard was it to assimilate and integrate into the larger mainstream society?
Senator Geary: ".. I don't like your kind of people. I don't like to see you come out to this clean country in oily hair and dressed up in those silk suits, and try to pass yourselves off as decent Americans. I'll do business with you but the fact is that I despise your masquerade, the dishonest way you pose yourself. Yourself and your whole f--king family."
Last edited by BaltimoreSteel69; 03/27/13 04:47 PM.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706563
03/27/13 05:34 PM
03/27/13 05:34 PM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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Come on now?!! Ya'll don't have anything to say on this?
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706566
03/27/13 05:39 PM
03/27/13 05:39 PM
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ManGauge
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In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks
They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw
Last edited by ManGauge; 03/27/13 05:40 PM.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706597
03/27/13 06:38 PM
03/27/13 06:38 PM
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Giancarlo
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706601
03/27/13 07:15 PM
03/27/13 07:15 PM
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Lilo
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Southern Italians in particular were not considered by all and sundry to be "white" until some time after WW2. The book "An offer we can't refuse" by George DeStefano goes into the perceptions in some detail.
There was a famous case in 1922 Alabama where a black man was convicted of having consensual sex with a white woman but a higher court threw out the conviction because it was not convinced that the woman, of Sicilian ancestry, was white. Similarly people like Louis Prima occasionally had trouble getting work in some NY clubs because people wanted to make sure he wasn't a black man trying to pass. And of course in 1925 the Irish gangster Peg Leg Lonergan, the night he was killed, chased off three Irish women with Italian dates, telling them to "come back with white men".
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: ManGauge]
#706617
03/27/13 07:52 PM
03/27/13 07:52 PM
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ht2
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In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks
They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw There were other incidents as well. A few years later in 1899, there was another lynching of 5 Italians in Tallulah, Lousiana over a dispute involving a goat owned by one of the victims. Three years later in 1901, two Italians were lynched in Irwin, Mississippi.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706621
03/27/13 07:57 PM
03/27/13 07:57 PM
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ht2
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This is from a newspaper (The Daily Iowa Capital) in 1899:
In the South "the average man will classify the population as whites, dagoes, and negroes. This is the explanation of the lynching of Italians in Louisiana... The unwritten law of the state is that a white man shall not be lynched. No matter what his crime, he is entitled to trial by law and a legal execution. The only exception is the Italian, who in this respect has been placed on terms of equality with the negro.
Last edited by ht2; 03/27/13 07:58 PM.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: ManGauge]
#706693
03/28/13 08:00 AM
03/28/13 08:00 AM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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Yeah, I read about lynchings of Sicilians in New Orleans during the 1920's after a police chief was murdered.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: ht2]
#706694
03/28/13 08:02 AM
03/28/13 08:02 AM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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The state of Louisiana is so backwards. I used to attend school down there. The socialization of folks down there is still rooted in very old, antiquated ways of thinking.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: Lilo]
#706696
03/28/13 08:03 AM
03/28/13 08:03 AM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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Thanks for everyone's input. We can discuss this intelligently.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: IvyLeague]
#706697
03/28/13 08:05 AM
03/28/13 08:05 AM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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Well, I don't know where you're getting this historical information from. The original Arabs were Blacks to begin with. That whole term, "Arab" is debatable. As entertaining as that scene, and movie, is; I'm not sure it's entirely accurate. The Moors were closer to Arabs than Africans. And, though slightly darker in complexion, were not black.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: ht2]
#706698
03/28/13 08:07 AM
03/28/13 08:07 AM
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BaltimoreSteel69
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History is so complex, there is so much we don't know of each other's story. People think that Africans in America were the only group who were lynched, murdered in this country because of the color and ethnic background. Interesting. In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks
They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw There were other incidents as well. A few years later in 1899, there was another lynching of 5 Italians in Tallulah, Lousiana over a dispute involving a goat owned by one of the victims. Three years later in 1901, two Italians were lynched in Irwin, Mississippi.
"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#706714
03/28/13 09:56 AM
03/28/13 09:56 AM
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TonyBoy117
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Fuck you guys, Just Becouse of the type of forum we are on dosent mean you can be racist pricks, somebody had to say it.
Last edited by TonyBoy117; 03/28/13 09:58 AM.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: TonyBoy117]
#706885
03/29/13 06:36 AM
03/29/13 06:36 AM
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johnnyboysala
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Fuck you guys, Just Becouse of the type of forum we are on dosent mean you can be racist pricks, somebody had to say it. Personally i thought that for a debate on race on the Internet, this thread was surprisingly NON racist! BaltimoreSteel makes a good point. I had no idea Sicilians were lynched. As he suggested, I'd wrongly assumed it had only really happened to those of African descent. It really is interesting to discover otherwise. Nothing racist about it.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: TonyBoy117]
#706912
03/29/13 09:04 AM
03/29/13 09:04 AM
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Mastronardo
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The tittle of the thread itself is irritating The fact that you misspell the word 'title' is irritating.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: Giancarlo]
#708812
04/06/13 03:41 PM
04/06/13 03:41 PM
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Mastronardo
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"You're part eggplant." Good movie!
Last edited by Mastronardo; 04/06/13 03:42 PM.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#708888
04/06/13 10:27 PM
04/06/13 10:27 PM
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Posts: 527
tommykarate
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Pay wise Italians were below the blacks chinese irish or whoever else on the railroads and such.they were def not thought very highly of
One thing about wiseguys...the hustle never ends.-tony soprano
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#708901
04/06/13 11:49 PM
04/06/13 11:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
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Lilo
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In its decision in the case of U.S. v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923), the Supreme Court deemed Asian Indians ineligible for citizenship because U.S. law allowed only free whites to become naturalized citizens.
What we now hold is that the words “free white persons” are words of common speech, to be interpreted in accordance with the understanding of the common man, synonymous with the word “Caucasian” only as that word is popularly understood. As so understood and used, whatever may be the speculations of the ethnologist, it does not include the body of people to whom the appellee belongs. It is a matter of familiar observation and knowledge that the physical group characteristics of the Hindus render them readily distinguishable from the various groups of persons in this country commonly recognized as white. The children of English, French, German, Italian, Scandinavian, and other European parentage, quickly merge into the mass of our population and lose the distinctive hallmarks of their European origin. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=261&page=204http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_ThindThe succeeding years brought immigrants from Eastern, Southern and Middle Europe, among them the Slavs and the dark-eyed, swarthy people of Alpine and Mediterranean stock, and these were received as unquestionably akin to those already here and readily amalgamated with them. It was the descendants of these, and [261 U.S. 204, 214] other immigrants of like origin, who constituted the white population of the country when section 2169, re-enacting the naturalization test of 1790, was adopted, and, there is no reason to doubt, with like intent and meaning.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#739979
09/15/13 02:33 PM
09/15/13 02:33 PM
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lic
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i mean its complicated, i still dont consider sicilian imigrants white, most of there ancestors were north africans(moors).... northern italians ancestors are closer aligned with germanic.. just like switzerland... sicilians and some other medertarians have large percentages of north african DNA as much as they hate it... sicilians, portuguese, some spainards(not basques) basques are the cousins of celtics(irish,welsh,highland scottish, cornish and manx).. its all so complicated... we will never be able to define our ethncities or hertigae completley, theres been mixing since the beginign of time...Although i do agree that many DAGO'S are decietful and shady.... its in there nature just like jews are academics, irish have short tempers etc... IN CLOSING SICILIANS HAVE JUST AS MUCH AFRICAN DNA AS THEY DO EUROPEAN IF NOT MORE.... THERE EVEN SAYING THESE DAYS THAT US NORTHERN EUROPEANS HAVE SOME NEANDERTHAL DNA... WHICH IS UNCERTIAN AND CONFUSING... HOW COULD TWO DIFFERNT SPECIES SCREW??
Last edited by lic; 09/15/13 02:34 PM.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: lic]
#739991
09/15/13 03:32 PM
09/15/13 03:32 PM
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SC
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That being said, just to pis of some DAGO'S.... YOUS ARE BLACK... YOUR FEMALE ANCESTORS GOT IT IN WITH SOME JIGS... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT... STIRRING THE POT. Somebody sure wants a vacation. I'm only too glad to oblige him.
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Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US?
[Re: BaltimoreSteel69]
#740032
09/15/13 11:15 PM
09/15/13 11:15 PM
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Posts: 380 In a wide open city
Tony_Pro
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The above is also the reason that many mafiaoso took Irish surnames in the prohibition era, pretending to be Irish was a (small) step up the social ladder, Irish ganagsters were still somewhat on top and cultivating connections to Irish politicians didn't hurt either.
This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)
"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
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