Though I know you'll ignore them all, several excellent arguments against gay marriage are made in the two articles below.


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765625644/Too-much-at-stake-in-debate.html

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/344221/why-were-losing-gay-marriage-debate-mona-charen

I'm not ignoring you IVY! Like the articles! And to be truthful, you know what I find aggravating more than anything. Why all the fuss over Gay marriage? Why do these people love to prance in our faces! Does being married change a relationship that much? Actually it's done in front of God, your taking an oath to him and with your husband or wife! And we know what the big guy thinks of homosexuality Ivy! All these Gay couples will have nice tans in the afterlife!

Pure propaganda.

Just and FYI, speaking of the Constitution here's a little education regarding God and our Constitution!


http://m.timesrecordnews.com/news/2012/aug/04/just-where-does-the-constitution-mention-god/

God and religion should have no place in policy making, plain and simple.

Then move to an atheist country! You want to quote the Constitution when you thought it suited you? Now you see it was based by and written upon God's words and beliefs you turn your back on it? Nice!

It was also written almost 240 years ago, during a time when secularism was frowned upon. A civil right is a civil right, and marriage is a civil right.

I think this is the real issue:

Yeah, throw a cartoon in as an argument piece! I didn't even read the stupid fucking thing. Using your incorrect propaganda didn't work so try a cartoon!

And as far as how long ago it was written I could give a shit less, like I said you'll use it when it suits you(or think it does) then turn your back on it when it doesnt?

Ah, the "two consenting adults" line. The stock-in-trade argument of the secular left to excuse just about anything under the sun.

If we want to talk about history, for thousands of years, marriage has always been understood to be between men and women; largely involving the creation of the family unit of father, mother, and children. The very building block of society. Don't give me this "two consenting adults" crap.



Says who?



Since when was marriage a civil right? People just automatically attribute to themselves certain "civil rights;" God only knows where these come from. Gays have no "civil rights" to have their so called "marriages" recognized and legitimized by society.

Use it when it suits me?

If the Constitution was perfect, it wouldn't have been amended so many times. There are certainly parts of the Constitution that suit me just fine, and parts of it that don't. Go ahead and crucify me (okay, bad choice of words, considering it's Good Friday).

Not crucifying you at all. Just don't quote the text as how you live then turn and run when it's a lost argument! And speaking of Good Friday the house of The Lord only observes a Man and a Woman. Homosexuality is a sin! King Solomon was covering all his bases!

There's actually been relatively few over the years.

Of course, twisting and manipulating the Constitution through activist judges, has always been part of the liberal game. If they have it their way, eventually the Constitution will be unrecognizable.

I'm no Biblical scholar, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, the only unforgivable sin is not accepting Christ as your Lord and savior. So suppose a homosexual accepts Jesus as his/her Lord and savior, and does his/her best to refrain from gay/lesbian behavior, would they be accepted into Heaven?

And if that is the case, then it confirms one of my biggest issues with religion. I have nothing against people who have faith in a higher power, but I take issue when a person of faith tells me or someone else that I'm going to Hell unless I conform to a certain prototype.

Pardon me if I'm going off topic, but despite my lack of beliefs, I am fascinated by this stuff.

This is Ivy territory! I'm not as well versed in the Bible! I just know what our Priest has stated regarding the issue!

I really can't understand why people can't mind there own lives and always have to bring in religion as there proof that it's not right. The bible was written by men centuries ago, and been changed over time. During the Roman/Greek times nobody was judged having relationships with the same sex.

It just doesn't make sense to stop people from living there own lives because either you don't understand or afraid of them. How would you like it if you can't marry somebody because they have a different religion than you, a different society class, or race? Marriage has evolved over time for the better.

Actually you don't know what the big man thinks about homosexuality if he exists at all. No one can prove anything east. It's all faith, you either have it or you don't. I don't and I'm not burning in hell for it and neither are gays, to condemn them for something they have no control over is wrong plain and simple

East, don't give me that "you left the Bronx" crap, like I don't know what I'm talking about, although I loved Nicky's comment about Serbia! As for the age of my children, how is the conversation about same sex marriage different from a conversation about homosexuality itself. The fact that Aunt Susie and Aunt Joan are a couple, married or not, is the conversation that you may have trouble with, not whether Susie and Joan can marry. To a child, that's irrelevant. How would you explain any couple living together that isn't married?

I do believe that no Church, if it's doctrine states that homosexuality is a sin, should suddenly conduct same sex marriage. However, the Bill of Rights recognizes that we are ALL created equal and that we are guaranteed the right to live a life of liberty and one in the pursuit of happiness. That means that the rights granted to one must be granted to all. If I have the right to marry, then my gay neighbor should also be granted that right. The same 14th amendment that protects me protects all and makes sure that we are all equal under the law. If we're all equal, then why can't everyone marry??

Well, the good news is, it seems DOMA is going down. Good riddance.

Well, you're going to get at least slightly different answers, depending on who you ask.

My response is that what is known as the unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit. This basically involves turning from the truth, rejecting Christ and "crucifying Him afresh," once you know with certainty that He lives. It's nothing less than willful and open rebellion against God, while having a perfect knowledge that you're doing so. Those who have sunk to this level would ascent to the crucifixion of the Lord all over again. It's the sin of Lucifer and his followers, who were cast out of Heaven. Since then, they've been known as the "Sons of Perdition."

It's important to note that it's virtually impossible for the "rank and file" believers to commit this sin, to say nothing of non-believers, because few have come to this level of knowledge. And this only comes to a relatively select few who, during their lives, live worthy to obtain what is known as the "Second Comforter." The Holy Ghost is the "First Comforter." The Second Comforter is nothing less then Jesus Christ, Himself, appearing to a person and the Holy Spirit witnessing to them that Christ indeed lives and is the Son of God. Once this happens, that person now has a perfect knowledge and is no longer going by faith alone.

To answer your question, gay people have the same opportunity to "get to Heaven" as anyone else. And that's by obeying all the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. This would obviously include accepting Christ as their Lord and Savior, as well as abstaining from homosexual behavior. Jesus said, "Strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, and few there be that find it." He asks all of us to conform to His prototype. He has prepared the way to return to Him and His Father but it has to be His way.

As for "going to Hell," my understanding of all that may be quite different than many Christians. The idea of sinners being sent to some fiery pit to suffer for all time is not consistent with a loving Heavenly Father. There certainly is a Hell, and unrepentant sinners certainly will visit it, but only until their debt is paid. They will have to suffer the "buffetings of Satan" but all except the Sons of Perdition will eventually be redeemed through repentance (made possible by the Atonement of Christ). Now, this doesn't necessarily mean they will enter Heaven in terms of where God resides. But they will inherit a kingdom of some level glory, though they have no obtained the fullness of what they could have, and have their eternal progression blocked. This is what is actually meant by the oft-used term "damned." Their eternal progression is damned.

The writings of the Apostle Paul were during those times and he expressly teaches against homosexual behavior. Other prophets did the same in Old Testament times.

It has nothing to do with "not understanding" or being "afraid" of gay people. Again, this isn't so much about gays as about marriage and it being radically redefined. And, no, it hasn't "evolved" over time. It's existed, more or less the same way, for centuries. Only in recent times have some people wanted to change it.



You make the same mistake many do by assuming that, because you don't know what the "big man" thinks, nobody does. And there certainly is proof of God's existence. But it doesn't come in the way you would want.



Yes, we - as individuals - are all created equal. But that doesn't mean every relationship people enter into is equal or deserving of the same recognition, rights, or protections.



The good news is that, even if some or even all of DOMA is "going down," the Supreme Court will leave it up to the states; which I'm perfectly fine with. Californians may be screwed but, fortunately, most of the rest of the country has banned gay marriage.

Don't worry, the next case will come sooner than you think. It doesn't make sense that once a gay couple move to another state, they lose their rights. To me, those who are prejudiced against other people having the same rights as they have are screwed up, not the Californians for wanting to recognize gay marriage. To say that the most of states are against gay marriage has no actual foundation. 58% of country is for living and let living when it comes to gay marriage. The rest of xenophobes will surely have to bend to the new laws of the land, as their ancestors did when the slavery was abolished.

Not according to the good book Joe! And since I do have faith and I believe in its laws and teachings its going to get interesting on the other side!

There's a difference between "equal" and functions and titles. Equal in this sense is in regards to standards, treatment and quality of life. Equal doesn't in this sense doesn't qualify everyone to play the same sex! Laws of nature

And Sicilian Babe, it's ok you left the Bronx over 40 years ago, nothing wrong with leaving before it crumbled. My point was it would be impossible to understand how life is there! And now having little or no contact with minorities or other people suffering typical inner city problems it would be nearly impossible for you to empathize with them. What's scary is the passion you convey to prove that you do. It's like all these politicians who make decisions for these areas and haven't walked the streets the represent in years. Same mindset, were here to help, were here to pretend we know how you feel, where here to run like hell when the street lights turn on(if they do, if there there)

Some of you are ignoring the two major provisions of DOMA which affect relationship advantages and full faith and credit. I expect the Court to use the equal protection provision of the 14th amendment on which to base its opinion that federal spousal benefits should be available to same sex couples. However, I predict that it will abide the public policy exception to Article IV's full faith and credit provision.

In the Pery case, I think Scotus will leave the 9th circuit court's decision in place perhaps because the plaintiff's lacked standing.

Oli, how much of this "their just doing it for the benefits" is valid do you think? I find that argument to be a stretch?

Ivy I'm literally laughing, one by one states will approve gay marriage and life will go on. It's inevitable, so you may as well move to Saudi Arabia or something because this country will continue to grow in favor of gay marriage. Ivy I went to school in Massachusetts my entire life and I was 15 when they approved it. Since that time everything's been fine, no ones turning gay, family isn't threatened, and life goes on. In my high school NO ONE gave two shits about people who were gay. What the fuck is the point? We have better things to worry about in life than worrying about a god who may or may not exist and whether or not it approves homosexuality. Morals dont come from god they come from common sense and the evolved human brain. And I'll tell you one thing it makes my day when I see two men or women holding hands without fear of being discriminated against by prejudiced people or religious fanatics.

Saying that homosexuality is against God's will and a sin is the most idiotic thing ever.

Ahmen to that (no pun intended )

I concur with Paul Hogarth's analysis. The Court may take into account that because several states have recognized gay marriage, the denial of federal benefits to those states' spouses denies them equal protection.