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Italians weren't considered "white" in US? #706547
03/27/13 04:39 PM
03/27/13 04:39 PM
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BaltimoreSteel69 Offline OP
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I want to bang on this for a minute. When the first wave of Italian immigrants came to the US, they weren't considered "so-called" white correct?? How hard was it to assimilate and integrate into the larger mainstream society?

Senator Geary: ".. I don't like your kind of people. I don't like to see you come out to this clean country in oily hair and dressed up in those silk suits, and try to pass yourselves off as decent Americans. I'll do business with you but the fact is that I despise your masquerade, the dishonest way you pose yourself. Yourself and your whole f--king family."

Last edited by BaltimoreSteel69; 03/27/13 04:47 PM.


"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706563
03/27/13 05:34 PM
03/27/13 05:34 PM
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Come on now?!! Ya'll don't have anything to say on this?



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706566
03/27/13 05:39 PM
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In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks

They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw

Last edited by ManGauge; 03/27/13 05:40 PM.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706597
03/27/13 06:38 PM
03/27/13 06:38 PM
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Well you know what they say about those dark skin sicilians. lol


Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706601
03/27/13 07:15 PM
03/27/13 07:15 PM
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Southern Italians in particular were not considered by all and sundry to be "white" until some time after WW2. The book "An offer we can't refuse" by George DeStefano goes into the perceptions in some detail.

There was a famous case in 1922 Alabama where a black man was convicted of having consensual sex with a white woman but a higher court threw out the conviction because it was not convinced that the woman, of Sicilian ancestry, was white. Similarly people like Louis Prima occasionally had trouble getting work in some NY clubs because people wanted to make sure he wasn't a black man trying to pass. And of course in 1925 the Irish gangster Peg Leg Lonergan, the night he was killed, chased off three Irish women with Italian dates, telling them to "come back with white men".


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: ManGauge] #706617
03/27/13 07:52 PM
03/27/13 07:52 PM
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ht2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ManGauge
In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks

They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw


There were other incidents as well. A few years later in 1899, there was another lynching of 5 Italians in Tallulah, Lousiana over a dispute involving a goat owned by one of the victims. Three years later in 1901, two Italians were lynched in Irwin, Mississippi.

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706621
03/27/13 07:57 PM
03/27/13 07:57 PM
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This is from a newspaper (The Daily Iowa Capital) in 1899:

In the South "the average man will classify the population as whites, dagoes, and negroes. This is the explanation of the lynching of Italians in Louisiana... The unwritten law of the state is that a white man shall not be lynched. No matter what his crime, he is entitled to trial by law and a legal execution. The only exception is the Italian, who in this respect has been placed on terms of equality with the negro.


Last edited by ht2; 03/27/13 07:58 PM.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706633
03/27/13 08:53 PM
03/27/13 08:53 PM
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Forget ''olive skinned'' We were considered to be the bottom of the barrel in this country, and yet our parent's never protested, never had ''activists'' saying they were victims, and would never accept welfare...My father grew up in a roach/mice infested home, and lived the american dream of working hard, and died a millionaire...That should be, and is the real history of italian immigrants !!!

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: Giancarlo] #706659
03/27/13 11:24 PM
03/27/13 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Giancarlo

Well you know what they say about those dark skin sicilians. lol



As entertaining as that scene, and movie, is; I'm not sure it's entirely accurate. The Moors were closer to Arabs than Africans. And, though slightly darker in complexion, were not black.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: ManGauge] #706693
03/28/13 08:00 AM
03/28/13 08:00 AM
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Yeah, I read about lynchings of Sicilians in New Orleans during the 1920's after a police chief was murdered.



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: ht2] #706694
03/28/13 08:02 AM
03/28/13 08:02 AM
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The state of Louisiana is so backwards. I used to attend school down there. The socialization of folks down there is still rooted in very old, antiquated ways of thinking.



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: Lilo] #706696
03/28/13 08:03 AM
03/28/13 08:03 AM
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Thanks for everyone's input. We can discuss this intelligently.



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: IvyLeague] #706697
03/28/13 08:05 AM
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Well, I don't know where you're getting this historical information from. The original Arabs were Blacks to begin with. That whole term, "Arab" is debatable.






Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Giancarlo

Well you know what they say about those dark skin sicilians. lol



As entertaining as that scene, and movie, is; I'm not sure it's entirely accurate. The Moors were closer to Arabs than Africans. And, though slightly darker in complexion, were not black.



"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: ht2] #706698
03/28/13 08:07 AM
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History is so complex, there is so much we don't know of each other's story. People think that Africans in America were the only group who were lynched, murdered in this country because of the color and ethnic background. Interesting.


Originally Posted By: ht2
Originally Posted By: ManGauge
In the antebellum south , Sicilians were actually designated as blacks

They were victims of the biggest lynching incident ever in New Orleans , when a bunch of them were rounded up and lynched because they were through to have killed a police sergeant but the general consensus that they (anglo americans) were just gung ho to lynch any Sicilian they saw


There were other incidents as well. A few years later in 1899, there was another lynching of 5 Italians in Tallulah, Lousiana over a dispute involving a goat owned by one of the victims. Three years later in 1901, two Italians were lynched in Irwin, Mississippi.




"Some of those guys, they didn't go off their blocks. They wouldn't go out of their own neighborhoods-I'm talking for fifty years." - Henry Hill
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706714
03/28/13 09:56 AM
03/28/13 09:56 AM
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Fuck you guys, Just Becouse of the type of forum we are on dosent mean you can be racist pricks, somebody had to say it.

Last edited by TonyBoy117; 03/28/13 09:58 AM.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706733
03/28/13 12:58 PM
03/28/13 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: BaltimoreSteel69


Well, I don't know where you're getting this historical information from. The original Arabs were Blacks to begin with. That whole term, "Arab" is debatable.



Historians argue that everyone was Black to begin with

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: TonyBoy117] #706885
03/29/13 06:36 AM
03/29/13 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: TonyBoy117
Fuck you guys, Just Becouse of the type of forum we are on dosent mean you can be racist pricks, somebody had to say it.


Personally i thought that for a debate on race on the Internet, this thread was surprisingly NON racist! BaltimoreSteel makes a good point. I had no idea Sicilians were lynched. As he suggested, I'd wrongly assumed it had only really happened to those of African descent. It really is interesting to discover otherwise. Nothing racist about it.

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706903
03/29/13 08:19 AM
03/29/13 08:19 AM
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I didn't even know that had happened to Italians in USA, I remember I was watching this movie where a guy goes to a hotel in LA. And because he's brown skinned, the hotel administrator says she doesn't give rooms to Mexicans. Then he says that he's not a Mexican, but he's Italian and then she gives him the room.


Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706907
03/29/13 08:37 AM
03/29/13 08:37 AM
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The tittle of the thread itself is irritating

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: TonyBoy117] #706912
03/29/13 09:04 AM
03/29/13 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: TonyBoy117
The tittle of the thread itself is irritating


The fact that you misspell the word 'title' is irritating.

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #706963
03/29/13 11:46 AM
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i read that only southern italians weren't considered white, the northern italians were
but at that time italians were the most hated among immigrants in the states thats coz they classified them as not white

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: Giancarlo] #708812
04/06/13 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Giancarlo

Well you know what they say about those dark skin sicilians. lol



"You're part eggplant." Good movie!

Last edited by Mastronardo; 04/06/13 03:42 PM.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #708888
04/06/13 10:27 PM
04/06/13 10:27 PM
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Pay wise Italians were below the blacks chinese irish or whoever else on the railroads and such.they were def not thought very highly of


One thing about wiseguys...the hustle never ends.-tony soprano
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #708901
04/06/13 11:49 PM
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Quote:
In its decision in the case of U.S. v. Bhagat Singh Thind (1923), the Supreme Court deemed Asian Indians ineligible for citizenship because U.S. law allowed only free whites to become naturalized citizens.

What we now hold is that the words “free white persons” are words of common speech, to be interpreted in accordance with the understanding of the common man, synonymous with the word “Caucasian” only as that word is popularly understood. As so understood and used, whatever may be the speculations of the ethnologist, it does not include the body of people to whom the appellee belongs. It is a matter of familiar observation and knowledge that the physical group characteristics of the Hindus render them readily distinguishable from the various groups of persons in this country commonly recognized as white. The children of English, French, German, Italian, Scandinavian, and other European parentage, quickly merge into the mass of our population and lose the distinctive hallmarks of their European origin.



http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=261&page=204

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Bhagat_Singh_Thind

Quote:
The succeeding years brought immigrants from Eastern, Southern and Middle Europe, among them the Slavs and the dark-eyed, swarthy people of Alpine and Mediterranean stock, and these were received as unquestionably akin to those already here and readily amalgamated with them. It was the descendants of these, and [261 U.S. 204, 214] other immigrants of like origin, who constituted the white population of the country when section 2169, re-enacting the naturalization test of 1790, was adopted, and, there is no reason to doubt, with like intent and meaning.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #739979
09/15/13 02:33 PM
09/15/13 02:33 PM
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i mean its complicated, i still dont consider sicilian imigrants white, most of there ancestors were north africans(moors).... northern italians ancestors are closer aligned with germanic.. just like switzerland... sicilians and some other medertarians have large percentages of north african DNA as much as they hate it... sicilians, portuguese, some spainards(not basques) basques are the cousins of celtics(irish,welsh,highland scottish, cornish and manx).. its all so complicated... we will never be able to define our ethncities or hertigae completley, theres been mixing since the beginign of time...Although i do agree that many DAGO'S are decietful and shady.... its in there nature just like jews are academics, irish have short tempers etc... IN CLOSING SICILIANS HAVE JUST AS MUCH AFRICAN DNA AS THEY DO EUROPEAN IF NOT MORE.... THERE EVEN SAYING THESE DAYS THAT US NORTHERN EUROPEANS HAVE SOME NEANDERTHAL DNA... WHICH IS UNCERTIAN AND CONFUSING... HOW COULD TWO DIFFERNT SPECIES SCREW??

Last edited by lic; 09/15/13 02:34 PM.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #739980
09/15/13 02:36 PM
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That being said, just to pis of some DAGO'S.... YOUS ARE BLACK... YOUR FEMALE ANCESTORS GOT IT IN WITH SOME JIGS... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT... STIRRING THE POT.

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: lic] #739990
09/15/13 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: lic
That being said, just to pis of some DAGO'S.... YOUS ARE BLACK... YOUR FEMALE ANCESTORS GOT IT IN WITH SOME JIGS... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT... STIRRING THE POT.

What are you, some dirty irish pig? grin


"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."

-Jordan Belfort
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: lic] #739991
09/15/13 03:32 PM
09/15/13 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: lic
That being said, just to pis of some DAGO'S.... YOUS ARE BLACK... YOUR FEMALE ANCESTORS GOT IT IN WITH SOME JIGS... NO DOUBT ABOUT IT... STIRRING THE POT.


Somebody sure wants a vacation. I'm only too glad to oblige him.


.
Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: Dellacroce] #739995
09/15/13 04:23 PM
09/15/13 04:23 PM
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Crazy talk.


From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn.

Re: Italians weren't considered "white" in US? [Re: BaltimoreSteel69] #740032
09/15/13 11:15 PM
09/15/13 11:15 PM
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In a wide open city
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The above is also the reason that many mafiaoso took Irish surnames in the prohibition era, pretending to be Irish was a (small) step up the social ladder, Irish ganagsters were still somewhat on top and cultivating connections to Irish politicians didn't hurt either.


This life of ours, this is a wonderful life. If you can get through life like this, hey, thats great. But it's very, very unpredictable. There are so many ways you can screw it up.-Paul Castellano (he would know)

"I'm not talking about Italians, I'm talking about criminals."-Joe Valachi
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