20 minutes really? It doesn't take 15 minutes TOPS for the cops to come to my neighborhood. But then again, the BX (particularly the South near me) has a higher crime rate than other areas in the city so it makes sense for their faster response times.

I think you give nyc cops too much credit. If their was real trouble they would rather show up after the trouble ends and not get in the middle of it. If they did show up your as apt to be shot by the cops as the bad guys. Hey maybe there is not much difference between the bad guys and the cops.

Have you personally had to call up the cops yourself. If so how did it turn out?

Well I am moving to Berlin in may or so. I have a grandson there. The gun think us I can't be without a gun. So if I can't get one legally I will get one illegally. I am pretty sure I can get one in the Turkish community. I knew tge answer before I asked the question.

On stick ball I grew up playing stickball. When I first went to Berlin I wanted to play off that spot and my family was going to play against my daughter husband family. I was going to put it on YouTube and show it to my east Harlem and Brooklyn friends.

But when I got there both sides of tge family punked out. They were afraid of getting pinched if we did it on a well traveled area. I was very disappointed, but I have not given up on the idea that's why.

What about buying heroin there?

Question?- How much of a beating could/would you and your wife or your family take in that 15 minutes TOPS wait till a cop shows up?

What do you need a gun for in this city?
And what's that shit about heroin?

Here is a police professional telling you like it is:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vA3O6HriVTc

NYPD has a very tough job to do no question about it. Ive been lucky to never have had to call them for anything, but you often see a bunch of them walking the beat in my neighborhood, there's always at least a good 10 of them at the local subway station doing random bag checks every other day.

Random bag checks? Are they allowed to do that? With no warrant they can just search peoples bags?

A very subjective response to that question. There's no reason for anybody to give me or my family a beating. Growing up in the neighborhood, many of the local gangbangers know my family and know me from the area. I grew up with many of them, played on sports teams with them, went to school with them. They see me everyday in a suit and tie off to the office, in a neighborhood where such a sight is not a common occurrence. Let's just say that it is not in their interest to fuck with me given who im with, i mind my business and they mind theirs. Obcourse something can always happen to you or your family this is NYC, theres a bunch of crazies roaming the streets not to mention terrorists itching to attack us on a daily basis. You are not going to be safe 100% of the time no matter what you do.

Yes they are allowed to do that. It became even more commonplace after the London subway bombings. Coincidentally, I have only been stopped once to be checked in my life. I dont exactly fit the profile of a an individual who might bomb the subway.

It would be helpful to posters if they would research court rulings regarding any number of topics that emerge on this Board. Regarding the US Constitution's 4th amendment content regarding searches, federal courts have consistently ruled that random searches under certain circumstances are constitutional when they are narrowly tailored to achieve a legitimate public safety objective. There are other predicates that accrue to a constitutional search, but they vary according to the type of search conducted. Subway searches are constitutional.

I used the term Beating, and you come back with "There's no reason for anybody to give me or my family a beating.

The same thought may have gone thru the people in the movie house or the teachera and children in Newton school. It only happens to the other guy....
Still how much could happen in that 15 minutes you are waiting for before it is reported and enough people get there to stop the problem...
Now just because it hasn't happen to you before, could it happen to just about anyone. You bet, and you could be betting you or your love ones life.

Only sheep depend on others to take care of them from the wovles out there. I would rather take my chance on myself and be ready the moment I relize there is a problem, not waiting or depending on others

Sorry the law clerk had the weekend off.

Well it goes without saying that if something were to happen that I would do what I can do (fight, resist) during that time to protect myself while I wait for help to arrive. If you feel that by carrying a weapon such as a gun will make you safer then go ahead nobody is stopping you. Oftentimes, the people carrying those weapons for security have them used against them by the very people perpetrating the crime. Fact is that crime is near its lowest levels ever in NYC. The probability that an average person will be the victim of a crime is quite low.

This is going to be very interesting to see how the feds deal with this one in the near future. People "printing" out guns on the new 3d printers.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/...ver-600-rounds/

For people that don't know the lower reciever of a AR15 is the registered part and pretty soon you will be able to sit at home on your pc and just hit the print button and print out as many as you want. Still not great but these guys are getting better and better at making these receivers. I have no doubt that within a few more years this will be a major problem for our pals at the BATF.

Well, In New York City, your not allowed to carry so you are shit out of luck in holding anyone off with a weapon like a handgun. Only the bad guys have them. So never mind taking a knife to a gun fight. Fists aren't going to "cut" it-
"OFTENTIMES"
and if you had any training at all - you would know that the old folk law about your gun beging used against you is just that.The phrase is used most often by someone taking a negative view on guns and their ownership. kind of like your mother telling you that you will shoot your eye out with your BB Gun- Stolen sure. if not stored correctly, taken from your hand, not likely unless you refuse to pull the triger. It is not like the movies with the super heros disarming a gang of thugs.

"The probability that an average person will be the victim of a crime is quite low."

Great then the laws we already had were doing fine and we didn't need all those new ones added to boot then did we-

How many years in jail for carrying an illegal firearm in nyc?

Violent crime- particularly those involving guns is near all-time lows in NYC. Even lower for somebody who is not involved in the criminal underworld. E.g. if your not a criminal and just a regular joe shmoe the possibility of you being the victim of crime involving a gun is quite low. Having a knife is statistically more than enough to protect yourself if you really want to against a crime.

The new gun laws being proposed are meant to prevent mass shootings with high capacity weapons and to help address people with mental health issues getting access to guns.

If you feel that you need to carry a gun to feel safe and "protect" yourself against all the criminals who might target you or your family, then go right ahead. Enjoy.

I support the second amendment, but there's no reason for ANY American to carry and own an automatic assault rifle.

The state of New York passed a 3.5 year mandatory minimum sentence for felony possession of an unlicensed loaded gun in 2006.

In a perfect world that would be a great dream to have.
After looking around the world today and the turmoil out there''' I am not so sure that works. Or will ever happen.
As far back are you can remember "man" has always had something.

Maybe we should go back to swords!

Not swords fathersson but an attempt to curb the violence that plagues our country. Banning assault weapons is one way to do it.

we have already been over this many times here, fully automatic weapons are exceedingly hard to get, as well as insanely expensive, often $10,000 or more for some of the lower quality(and limited # available since 1986) weapons that are for sale. you have to go through a lengthy backround check with the BATF, and regardless these weapons are banned in many states, ny and nj included, hardly the avenue a criminal would go down. to expand on that, i believe since 1934 when the sale of fully automatic weapons was highly restricted, that their have only been 2 murders committed with "legal" automatic weapons, and one of them involved a cop, surprisingly.


i'm sure it does happen, but rarely. like fatherson mentioned, real life is alot different than a james bond movie where a karate chop or a wrist grab will relieve someone of their weapon. also, with many of the tactical holsters available, simply grabbing at the gun isn't going to free it from the holster. have a friend put a water pistol in his pocket, stand across the room from him, and try to take it away from him before you get a wet spot on your shirt the bottom line is, that if you have a license to carry a concealed handgun, you should never pull it, much less even touch it, unless you are ready and willing to shoot. there is lots of great training out there to help people learn how to make that distinction.


the new restrictions that were shoved through so alarmingly fast have absolutly nothing to do with preventing a mass shooting, despite what they tell you. its pure political posturing by a governer who is under some weird delusion that he has a shot to be president and that this is one of the platforms that he can spring from, as well as a mayor who believes that he should have the right to tell you how to live almost every aspect of your life. anyone who understands anything about how guns function knows that the law only sounds good on paper to people who have little to no experience with guns.


not only to people who carry protect themselves, they protect others as well. google some examples of ccw holders saving lives, there are so many results that it gets repetitive fast. one of the reason some generally hold guns in such a negative view is that they never hear about the stories of gun owner doing good, but i assure you they are out there for anyone willing to look. there are examples of people injuring others as well, but they are not nearly as widespread. people who misuse their firearms, whether ccw or otherwise, are dealt with very harshly, as they should be.

what i have found on a personal basis is people who carry a concealed weapon don't do it because they are some paranoid right wing nutjob, they do so because above all else it is their right, and its nice to know that you are prepared in the highly unlikely scenario that you need it. it has alot to do with the self sufficient attitude that many americans still posses, and i think its a great trait to have!


that point makes too much sense, so it should be discounted seriously though, all forms of violent crime have dramatically dropped nationwide, even in the last 20 years. the stats are listed by the fbi for anyone who's interested. when discussing important issues, such as gun rights in this case, the big picture always needs to be looked at, and that holds true no matter what the issue in discussion is. isolated events, no matter how sad they may be, always need to be looked at in the broader context, no matter how difficult that maybe for some who are only able to act on emotion.


the facts don't agree with you. look it up on the fbi's own website, "assault weapons", a term coined by the media in the first place, are used in such a small % of violent crime that even if all semi-automatic rifles were banned today, the effect that it would have would almost be too small to measure. please look this up, don't take my word for it. above all else, ask yourself this: as a criminal, would you rather commit a violent crime(assault, robbery, rape, murder) in a city such as chicago with very restrictive firearms laws, or one such as dallas where adults are trusted with dangerous things and allowed to defend themselves with deadly force. the answer seems pretty simple to me.

Some stats for thought

In the United States in 2009 there were 3 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United Kingdom, with very restrictive firearm laws (handguns are totally prohibited, for example) was .07, about 40 times lower, and for Germany .02. Firearms are also the most common method of suicide, accounting for 53.7% of all suicides committed in the United States in 2003.

I also did some FBI digging. In 2006, the FBI reported there were 10,177 gunshot deaths, but there were 2.5 million crimes de-escalated by armed citizens, who believed they had sufficient control of the situation that they did not have to fire their weapon. Sometimes by merely displaying their weapon.

From 1994 to 2004, the Federal Assault Weapons Ban was in place.


Except for 1999, a year of five shootings (including the Columbine massacre), the assault ban period was peaceful by US standards:
Years Shootings Per year People shot/year
1982-1994 19 1.5 25.5
1995-2004 16 1.6 20.9
2005-2012 27 3.4* 54.8*
*p<0.05 compared with 1995-2004.

Since the expiration of the gun ban in 2004, the number of shootings per year has doubled, and the number of victims per year has nearly tripled. Three of the bloodiest four years shown here occurred since the expiration.






Just for the record, I support the second amendment along with some rational restrictions to its use. Personally, I plan to legally own a firearm at some point in the future.

some interesting stats, thanks for sharing. i will caution however, that comparing countries with different cultures made up of vastly different ethnic groups can get tricky, as there are so many different variables to take into account, not the least of which are the ways the data is collected, as well as the definitions of different crimes, as these tend to vary alot more than you would think even in similar countries such as the US and UK.

another thing to take into account with regards to the US and UK is the rate of firearms ownership. if you have a vastly higher % of gun ownership here, then our numbers are going to be higher by default, despite adjusting for population. its not much different than saying the US has a much higher % of auto accidents/fatalities compared to say eithiopia, as we undoubtably have both more cars both in numbers and per capita.

Crime data along with other law enforcement data is generally collected and reported the same way in both the us and uk as they both use internationally accepted ways of data collection advocated by the united nations, ngos, and research institutions. Some interesting stats for sure in the infographics above.Hope all is well.

here's an interesting article that goes into detail about some of the fuckery with regards to crime statistic reporting in the UK.

http://www.theendrun.com/larry-pratt-british-gun-crime-stats-a-sham

thanks for sharing the article

More then 400 people packed a meeting Monday at the Onondaga County Courthouse about the new New York Law that restricts certain types of Gun Ownership. Many waiting in line outside the courthouse in cold weather waiting to get in and be heard.

"I've Never seen so many pople in the chamber," said Ryan McMahon, Chairman of the Legistature.
Many public Officals spoke against the new laws and the problems that it is causing. The mood in the chamber was anti-goverment. Several people said most gun owners would not comply with the new law.

The County Legislature is expected to vote today on a resolution opposing the law.

Full story by Tim Knauss- The Post Standard

Then they should go to jail. You can't pick the laws you like.