I've heard the DA is having a grand jury for the case. If that does in fact happen does Nicodemo's hearing get delayed until after the grand jury is finished?

Edited to add a question.

If the trial becomes a federal trial how long prior to trial does the defense get the discovery information?

In jersey i always thought that after your charged with a crime the prosecutor will present the case to a grand jury and your then officially indicted on those charges. I thought you got discovery right after that but i'm not a lawyer so i'm not sure about it.

But full discovery 10 days before trial? Thats really pretty tough for the defense. Especially if it's a complicated case.

Its by state. NJ is a "grand jury" state. PA is not. They can empanel a grand jury (like they did in Penn State sex abuse case) but its not required by state law. Very few states require grand jury indictments; grand jury indictments are required by US Constitution in federal cases.

Again the 10 day rule is when its ENTITLED; prosecutors generally dont wait that long. And it comes up in dribbles, not all at once. So prosecutors will hold back the good stuff til the end if they want to mess with you.

Thats what i was wondering about, if it worked the same way as it does in NJ. I'm really not too familiar with the PA court system and the way it handles cases.

The feds can actually wait until after the state case to try him. You can be tried by both the state and the feds for the same crime (double jeop doesnt apply).

If they are empaneling grand jury, its not necessarily any different with respect to discovery. Grand jury is a prosecution show. Defense attorneys are not permitted to ask any questions or make any objections or present any witnesses.

His prelim is set for Feb 20th so if judge finds there is enough evidence to go forward (which she most likely will) then he will be officially charged (indicted) and the case goes forward. They dont have to wait for the grand jury for the case to proceed. The grand jury often continues to investigate and then if they decide they can add more charges through a superseding indictment.

So in your professional judgment by the DA taking it to a grand jury would you say that means they are going for federal charges or is there possible other reasons to do so?

Edit: Thanks for the above answer. Much appreciated.

Unless I am reading the docket from the previous page incorrectly it says Feb 20th was cancelled.

From the docket:

"Preliminary Hearing 02/20/2013 9:00 am 306 Cancelled"

"Status 03/11/2013 1:30 pm 608 Judge Charles A. Ehrlich Scheduled"

Their was a motion to Seal the Indictment that was approved yesterday. What are some of the reasons it would be sealed?

New Date For Mob Trial; Kaboni Savage Drug Case Continues

By George Anastasia
For Bigtrial.net

Judge Eduardo Robreno has set April 16 as the date for the retrial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and three co-defendants.

But most courtroom observers say you'd be would be wise to hold off on putting that notice in your "save the date" calendar.

"He's just trying to push the process along," said one veteran of the criminal justice system. "I doubt the trial will go off that quickly."

In fact, the prosecution hasn't formally announced that it intends to retry Ligambi and the others on the 11 charges that a jury left "undecided" when it delivered its verdicts earlier this month. That decision is now in the hands of the U.S. Justice Department in Washington.

Not unexpectedly, Robreno also denied motions by lawyers for six of the defendants seeking to have all the charges against them dismissed. The judge also set sentencing dates in May for four defendants who were found guilty by the jury in a split verdict that still has defendants, their attorneys and many courtroom observers scatching their heads.

Meanwhile, seven floors below Robreno 15th floor courtroom, another big trial continued to play out as prosecutors laid out the case against drug kingpin Kaboni Savage and three co-defendants. FBI Agent Kevin Lewis, the lead investigator in the case, finished his fifth day on the witness stand early this afternoon.

Two other prosecution witnesses were called later in the day. The first of several cooperating witness who worked the drug underworld with Savage is expected to take the stand when the trial resumes this morning.

The two cases offer different and changing views of the Philadelphia underworld.

Ligambi and his co-defendants were charged with racketeering conspiracy in a case built around allegations of gambling, extortion and loansharking. Testimony focused on video poker machines that generated a few hundreds of dollars a week (or month) in profits and street-level extortion loans of several thousand dollars.

Defense attorneys derisively referred to the case as "racketeering lite." Others said the case was indicative of the waning days of Cosa Nostra.

Savage and his co-defendants, on the other hand, are charged in a case that includes 12 homicides and that epitomizes the bloody and wantonly violent drug underworld. Testimony thus far has focused on a drug network where a kilo of cocaine costs $27,000 and where the "players" in that game dealt in multi-kilogram shipments and hundred-thousand dollar business deals.

Savage and two of his co-defendants could be sentenced to death if convicted.

The penalties in the Ligambi case are substantially less, but could effectively end the criminal careers of some of the defendants.

Ligambi, 73, his nephew George Borgesi, 49, and a top associate, Anthony Staino, 55, could face retrial on racketeering conspiracy charges. The jury could not decide that count against those three defendants. Ligambi and Staino also face gambling-related chares on which the jury hung.

Mob underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino, 62, potentially faces a retrial on three gambling charges on which the jury hung as well.

But Massimino, mob soldier Damion Canalichio and mob associate Gary Battaglini were convicted of racketeering conspiracy by the same jury. They are scheduled to be sentenced in May. Staino was convicted of two extortion charges for which he also will be sentenced.

Massimino and Canalichio, with prior convictions and criminal records, could be facing 10 to 12 years in prison when they are sentenced.

A retrial, if it happens, is expected to be shorter and more focused than the 10-week trial that led to 21 days of often confusing jury deliberation. Most obsevers say the prosecution has an advantage in any retrial because it is able to reshape its case. Fewer tapes, fewer witnesses and more pointed testimony would likely be part of a new presentation for a prosecution team that believed the jury in the first trial got lost.

Part of that might be attributable to a prosecution presentation that many believed was disjointed and unorganized. The second time around, that probably won't be the case.

The jury had to decide 62 charges against seven defendants in a 52-count indictment. It came back with 46 not guilty decisions. The panel was undecided on 11 charges and delivered just five guilty verdicts.

Nevertheless, those convicted face significiant jail time. In addition, Ligambi, Borgesi and Staino run the risk of being convicted of a racketeering conspiracy count that carries a maximum 20-year sentence. At Ligambi's age, a conviction would be tantamount to a life sentence.

For Borgesi the situation is particularly galling. The volatile mobster, who was finishing a 14-year sentence for a 2001 racketeering conviction when he was indicted with Ligambi and the others in May 2011, was found not guilty of 13 of the 14 charges against him by the juyr.

But the jury hung -- was undecided -- on the racketeering conspiracy charge, a decison that Borgesi's lawyer, Paul Hetznecker, is expected to challenge as illogical in a post-trial motion.

The decision on whether to retry on the unresolved charges is expected to be announced in the near future. In the meantime, Ligambi, Borgesi and the four other defendants remain in the Federal Detention Center.

Savage, 38, and his co-defendants are in the same facility,.

His trial was marked by a rare note of levity this afternoon when FBI Agent Edward Frimel testified about how he and others members of a fugitive task force tracked Savage down in 1999 when he was wanted on a murder charge pending in Philadelphia (He later beat that case when a key witness was killed days before trial. That murder is one of the 12 homicides in the current case).

Frimel said he and other members of the task force learned that Savage was staying at an apartment in Stoney Run Village in Maple Shade, N.J. He said when they entered the apartment they found Savage "hiding under a pile of clothes and a comforter" at the foot of the bed in the apartment's one bedroom.

A veteran of the fugitive unit, Frimel said it was "not unusual" for find fugitives hiding under beds or clothes and blankets. Then, he added, "I once had a guy standing in a corner with a lampshade on his head."

The comment drew laughter from attorneys, jurors and members of the audience.

And before Assistant U.S. Attorney John Gallagher completed his questioning of Frimel, he came back to that incident.

"The guy with the lampshade," Gallagher asked. "You caught him, right?"

"For sure," Frimel replied.

Read more at http://www.bigtrial.net/2013/02/new-date-for-mob-trial-savage-drug-case.html#DZ4xJlioSg4jxuXK.99

Think these guys will cut a plea deal?

At this point if I was a betting man, I would say the feds will be handing out pleas like its candycanes at xmas.

But obcourse thats only if nobody in that family cooperates.

That's a BIG if though

You have to think that Borgesi should get released - he's done his bit for over 10 years - he doesn't deserve a release ? That's f'n bs at the highest level.

WOW! When did you first see this do you remember? As in the day? Because I saved the docket (dated stamed 2/11/13) to my computer. Lol. And the "Continuance Granted" game begins!

Indictments are sealed for one and one reason only. Keeping everything secret from everyone - i.e., co-conspirators that havent yet been arrested (let alone charged). Also, if informants were used, the mob guys still on the outside will often know from the allegations in the indictment the identities of the informants (e.g., Louie Chopsticks was the only other person aware of the specifics of certain day). This is particularly troubling (for Mr. Chopsticks if he is still on the street acting as informant)

Terrorism indictments are 99.5% of the time sealed. Organized crime and street gang cases are as well.

No way in hell a plea deal will be up for grabs unless someone flips on Ligambi. They want him sooooooo bad!

I saw it a few minutes before I posted above. I figured either it had changed since you read the docket or you had other information from somewhere that wasn't listed there.

Does it mean anything that the new court date is listed as "status" and not preliminary hearing? Do they have status court updates on the case when information is sealed? Therefore it's not necessarily the day of his preliminary hearing? Or will the same process for Nicodemo's PH be done that day and they just used a different word?

Edited to clarify question due to cobwebs in brain.

Nicodemo did not pull the trigger on this - I know for a fact he didn't do it

Who was it? The second gunman on the grassy knoll?

I have also heard that he wasn't the gunman. I don't know for a fact but I did hear that and I have said it before. If he was going straight home, cause he obviously didn't get rid of any evidence, he would have beat the cops to his house by a lot after the call came in from the mail man. He had to drop someone off somewhere first. But word on the street is that he wasn't alone.

I also heard this awhile ago from a very reliable person. I was waiting for someone else to say it publicly first though. But what I was told was he was the driver, not the gunman.

Yep same I heard and I said same think on RD last week. So do we think his indictment was sealed because of any certain reason? I know Jacklyn said a lot of OC stuff is sealed but this wasn't being treated as an OC case at first and isn't a FED case (yet?) and hes still in city lock up from what I know and his family is still in town last I heard. They listed all his charges and then their was a motion to seal and then it was sealed on 2/12. Just curious...

The talk from day 1 has been that there's a real good chance he was there to drive and or supervise what went down and wasn't the shooter. Very similar to the hit on Martorano. Ambush the target in broad daylight, pretty smart, huh? They got lucky it worked with the hit on Long John so the idiot did it again, in broad daylight. Which by the way almost didn't work, Martorano lived for 2 weeks after the shooting.

We know there is a mailman who saw the car leaving the scene, but is that all he saw? So what, he dropped the shooter off but kept the gun? Real fucking smart if thats what happened. Doesn't hitman 101 say get rid of the murder weapon? If he didn't have that gun and all the mailman saw was the car leaving the area then i would of said he has a pretty good chance at trial but that gun is the noose around his dumb head thats going to hang the idiot.

All those charges listed are he same charges he's had since the day he was charged the day after the shooting. I don't see anything additional added or for that matter taken off. A sealed indictment could mean there's additional evidence in the case or maybe that the target was a CI but we won't know until it's unsealed. Might mean something , might not.

They would know if Nicedemo was the shooter as soon as they picked him up. They use the reagent test for gumpowder residue ASAP. He probably would not have had time to completely wash off the residue. LE are waiting/pressuring him to 'give up' the shooter. With the amount of time that has passed already, looks like Nicodemo might stand tall. I imagine the family's admin members on the street have passed/received messages to Nicodemo through his visitors in jail. Reassurances passed back and forth, etc. If Nicodemo is cut from the same cloth as Mousie, then as Jiggs would say, "The Philly Mob rides again."

Exactly. He didn't have time to clean up so if he passed that paraffin test then most likely he didn't shoot the weapon that day and the cops know it.

Maybe I Misspoke with "fact" but I think it's likely there was someone else for all the reasons mentioned above - the Feds know they are screwed here

Ohhhhhhh now I understand things a little better. Nicodemo has a private attorney. He has THE BEST OF private attorneys. The firm representing him is an amazing defense team. They got Beanie Sigel an acquittal on attempted murder. It is the go to firm for high profile criminal defendants.

His case has also been moved to the Court of Common Pleas (that was the cancel of preliminary hearing to status hearing). My friend is lawyer with Philly Public Defender and the judge that is now assigned on the docket is a Common Pleas judge.

A status hearing is precisely what it sounds like - prosecution and defense update judge on what the status of the case.

This is still a State case, isn't it?

I'll second that I have Perri on my defense team.

The docket also says the preliminary arraignment (where the charges are listed) is "not final." Meaning the prosecution has atleast is saying (whether true or a bluff) that there will be additional charges in future.

If the case against Nicodemo was a slam dunk, you would know because the Feds would be prosecuting him and not the state.