my god, you chicago guys really take the cake when it comes to the mob! take a step back, and realize that we are in the present day, not the 60's, 70's, and early part of the 80's where your silly analogies would at least have some clout. the best that can be argued, imo, is that at their peak, the outfit was close to being as influential as the 3 historically weaker ny families, columbo, bonanno, and lucchese, seperately, although a strong case can be made that they were never even equal to these families on an individual basis.

if you guys want to pick a criminal area where you guys are ahead of nyc, the street gang scene would be your best bet! with regards to the # of made guys ect, i'm not sure, but i'm much more comfortable going with the more consistent # presented by the fbi and law enforcement in general, rather than defaulting to the highest # available to somehow try and prove my point. one thing however that i think we can all agree with is that the structure of the outfit is different than other families, thus the # of made guys seems to get under people's skin considering the influence the outfit is seemingly able to wield even at this stage in time. with that said, it might do a little to help some get over the low # if we could somehow come to an agreement on how many guys, whether made or not, have made guy status within the outfit. unfortunatly, that would likely end in the same arguments that we are faced with now.